Parents What are the "weeding out" skills?

[vagymmomma]

If you are talking about gateway skills, I would include twisting. Half, full one and a half, double, triple; front or back. Similar to a kip some kids seem to learn to twist easily and others take a while, but once they get it they've got it. It is difficult to add much variety to floor passes or dismounts or vaults without twisting.

I debated whether to put down twisting. The reason I didn't is that (in my limited experience) I never found twisting to be the reason that a gymnast tapped out. And it took my DD a long while to figure out her full (if 6 months is a long time in this world), but it boiled down to a mechanical issue that once identified was quickly corrected.

Twisting is certainly easier for some girls than others (especially those fast twitch types when doing doubles), but those with good tumbling, good coaching and the right equipment are more likely to find their way through. In contrast, kips have been a major roadblock even with privates, weight training, and years of practice for some girls. Part of it is strength but I think some girl are just naturally better swingers on bars.

 

[iwannacoach]

IWC, after one year of competing we are just now discovering the mental aspect as one of the most important qualities of a good gymnast!

Indeed you are! There's a saying that goes "You shouldn't love something that doesn't love you back." Gymnastics is more mentally and physically demanding than it is technically sensitive. The mechanics of what makes the sport work can easily be passed down from coach to gymnast, and believe me there are physically prepared kids that get it passed down hundreds of times over before they get a new skill. That's pretty odd when, say in the case of a bhs on beam, a child can work the floor line like it's a part of her body, but still can't move to the floor beam, or from the floor beam to the low beam and beyond.

The primary problem in the above example is the child, no matter how much "she wants," has a problem identifying who and what she is....... a problem solver and a gymnast. There are kids who seem to know they can "do this," and kids who know deep inside there's no way they can..... and kids of every stripe in between those extremes.

Being physically prepared is certainly important, but that's a matter of being willing to work on strength and flexibility. While two kids with identical effort will enjoy different degrees of physical readiness, both will get all the benefit they are genetically due. In that context, physical training is a non issue, as it's a matter of desire.

Talent, potential, star quality, or whatever you want to call it, is a non-issue as well. There are countless examples of kids who's gift seemed average or below that have gone on to very satisfying careers that finished after four years of college as a scholarshipped athlete, and likely an equal number of stars that couldn't get beyond level 8. The fortunes of these widely different children aren't solely determined by ability, because there's no amount of talent that's going to help a gymnast a salto vault if they can't view themselves capable of learning one.

Really, you can take every solid foundation for a successful gymnastics experience and render it nearly useless if the child feels they aren't "that."

There are a few prime examples of chalkbucket kids who've changed gyms and have quickly made gains on skills that had languished for months or years. These gains aren't likely the result of longer hours and better technical coaching as those two ingredients require some time to bake before providing results as dramatic as finally doing a bhs on beam on a daily basis, or twisting a layout they've had for years but just couldn't get to twist past 1/4 turn.

Certainly technique may have played a role, but I'll argue that technique can't change the stripes on a zebra, when the zebra wears a leotard and has a one year history of working a skill and getting nowhere. I contend there's much more to it. That the cause for the quick about face is these kids have made it to a gym that supports the child's notion of being ready and able. It's a team wide culture that a good coach nurtures and then maintains.

So call it what you want. In my mind it's a skill because it's something that can be improved upon until there's no need for more. The reality is at that point, as in any skill, it's incorporated into the child.... and they'll benefit from that for a very long time in many different pursuits.

There's very little hope to truly love gymnastics if you can't wrap your mind around it and let it love you back.

 

[Faith]

When dd is asked if she can do skill x, y or z, she shrugs and says she doesn't know, she hasn't learned it yet. I've never heard her say she can't do something.

She has always had coaches that teach step by step though- endless repetitions on that floor line, then on low beam, then on medium beam, then high.

 

[Uglybetty]

Uglybetty, Wouldn't you have to count all of the levels above you to determine the chance of getting to elite? If you add in all the optionals above level six it comes out to about 1:300.

That's why I specifically mentioned level 6 parents..... by that stage the field has dramatically reduced and 1 in 81 level 6 kids reach elite.

All academic for my DD of course since I can find no equivalent of these stats for British gymnasts

 

[ladybird]

Indeed you are! There's a saying that goes "You shouldn't love something that doesn't love you back." Gymnastics is more mentally and physically demanding than it is technically sensitive. The mechanics of what makes the sport work can easily be passed down from coach to gymnast, and believe me there are physically prepared kids that get it passed down hundreds of times over before they get a new skill. That's pretty odd when, say in the case of a bhs on beam, a child can work the floor line like it's a part of her body, but still can't move to the floor beam, or from the floor beam to the low beam and beyond.

The primary problem in the above example is the child, no matter how much "she wants," has a problem identifying who and what she is....... a problem solver and a gymnast. There are kids who seem to know they can "do this," and kids who know deep inside there's no way they can..... and kids of every stripe in between those extremes.

Being physically prepared is certainly important, but that's a matter of being willing to work on strength and flexibility. While two kids with identical effort will enjoy different degrees of physical readiness, both will get all the benefit they are genetically due. In that context, physical training is a non issue, as it's a matter of desire.

Talent, potential, star quality, or whatever you want to call it, is a non-issue as well. There are countless examples of kids who's gift seemed average or below that have gone on to very satisfying careers that finished after four years of college as a scholarshipped athlete, and likely an equal number of stars that couldn't get beyond level 8. The fortunes of these widely different children aren't solely determined by ability, because there's no amount of talent that's going to help a gymnast a salto vault if they can't view themselves capable of learning one.

Really, you can take every solid foundation for a successful gymnastics experience and render it nearly useless if the child feels they aren't "that."

There are a few prime examples of chalkbucket kids who've changed gyms and have quickly made gains on skills that had languished for months or years. These gains aren't likely the result of longer hours and better technical coaching as those two ingredients require some time to bake before providing results as dramatic as finally doing a bhs on beam on a daily basis, or twisting a layout they've had for years but just couldn't get to twist past 1/4 turn.

Certainly technique may have played a role, but I'll argue that technique can't change the stripes on a zebra, when the zebra wears a leotard and has a one year history of working a skill and getting nowhere. I contend there's much more to it. That the cause for the quick about face is these kids have made it to a gym that supports the child's notion of being ready and able. It's a team wide culture that a good coach nurtures and then maintains.

So call it what you want. In my mind it's a skill because it's something that can be improved upon until there's no need for more. The reality is at that point, as in any skill, it's incorporated into the child.... and they'll benefit from that for a very long time in many different pursuits.

There's very little hope to truly love gymnastics if you can't wrap your mind around it and let it love you back.

I just love this! My dd has some awesome coaches, but I can't tell you how often I wished you were one of them!!

 

[LIGYMMOM]

"There are a few prime examples of chalkbucket kids who've changed gyms and have quickly made gains on skills that had languished for months or years. These gains aren't likely the result of longer hours and better technical coaching as those two ingredients require some time to bake before providing results as dramatic as finally doing a bhs on beam on a daily basis, or twisting a layout they've had for years but just couldn't get to twist past 1/4 turn.
That the cause for the quick about face is these kids have made it to a gym that supports the child's notion of being ready and able. It's a team wide culture that a good coach nurtures and then maintains."

This is so true and I never thought about it this way. My daughter is a total bar lover, got her PO BHC at 4 yrs old, then learned nothing else on bars until I took her out of the gym at age 7. The reason we left was because the team was small, they had a few spots open, and she was not picked. Her spirit was crushed and I saw her losing interest in going. She was in the same level 2/3 class for 3 YEARS. Found a great new gym and she got the entire level 4 (old) bar routing within a few months! It was the positive environment and the coaches' belief in her that caused her boost in skills. And all this time I've been calling the bar coach a "miracle worker".

 

[LIGYMMOM]

Ok sorry Iwannacoach, I've got to figure out this "quoting" thing!

 

[sjm2b3]

iwannacoach is so right. DD has a new coach this year who is nothing less than amazing. She knows exactly how to encourage each girl and get the most out of them. DD believes what she says and goes for things because of it. Obviously there's a physically ready component, but watching the mental aspect is so cool.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

depending on who you are and what level you're at, ALL skills could be the end of the line.

a back walkover to one is the same as a double back to another.

 

[Clover]

In no particular order I would list
1. Puberty
2. Other Activities and school
3. Injury
4. Difficult Skills
5. Fears
6 Everything else (parents, money, boys, etc)

And in the end, I think quitting is usually not caused by just one of these but a combination of some or all of them. I agree that Bars (difficulty) and Beam (fears) are probably the events most likely to be part of the 'difficult skills' category. USAG has a very interesting website regarding participation in different levels (these numbers are 2 years old) and different genres of gymnastics. The URL is:
http://usagym.org/docs/About USA Gymnastics/Statistics/2010-11_AthleteNumbers.pdf

I was looking at these numbers. Does anyone know what the difference is between the Intro Level 1, 2, 3 and Xcel and the "regular" Levels 1, 2, 3, and Xcel? Just curious.

 

[momofthreegirls]

In our gym, there seemed to be drop in numbers after old L4 (due to the kip) and again after old L5 (which seemed to have several reasons - fear being one, and age of gymnasts being another. Most girls ready to enter old L6 were around middle-school age, where puberty/friends/social life get to be big factors in quitting. Oh, and also maybe the insanely tough scoring at old L6 played a part.

 

[MaryA]

I've known 2 girls to switch to Xcel over the flyway (one has since gone back to rec). Both had done it before. One had a very bad injury resulting from a flyway (knee connecting with eye on landing breaking many facial bones) and the other just developed a fear of it. But in both cases the girls truly believed that they would "never" do a flyaway again. As IWC said, it's not so much the skill but the belief that the skill will NEVER come. My DD is not very quick to get skills, but I have also never heard her say (though she may sometimes think it) that she will NEVER get a certain skill. She just keeps plugging away. Also, while both of those girls love gymnastics, neither of them loved competing. DD loves gymnastics meets, and that's what makes all of the hard work worth it for her.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I've known 2 girls to switch to Xcel over the flyway (one has since gone back to rec). Both had done it before. One had a very bad injury resulting from a flyway (knee connecting with eye on landing breaking many facial bones) and the other just developed a fear of it. But in both cases the girls truly believed that they would "never" do a flyaway again. As IWC said, it's not so much the skill but the belief that the skill will NEVER come. My DD is not very quick to get skills, but I have also never heard her say (though she may sometimes think it) that she will NEVER get a certain skill. She just keeps plugging away. Also, while both of those girls love gymnastics, neither of them loved competing. DD loves gymnastics meets, and that's what makes all of the hard work worth it for her.

I think *i* just developed a fear of flyaways, yikes!

 

[MaryA]

I think *i* just developed a fear of flyaways, yikes!

I agree. Yikes! For a 10-year-old girl, a broken arm or broken leg can be a badge of honor... sign my cast, try my crutches, etc. Multiple broken bones in your face? Not so much. She is fully recovered and a lovely young lady... but still no fly-away.

 

[Seeker]

Ouch. One of DD's teammates knees herself in the forehead quite often. She currently has a red spot there.

 

[wgymmom]

One of DD's teammates just broke a bone in her face a couple of months ago. She's going to miss most of the season - it really shook the girls up.