WAG Why do kips take so long?

[Flipomaniak]

Why is that such a hard skill to learn? In an interview when Nastia was asked what skill was the hardest to learn for her she said a kip... It's something many struggle with, but why? How is it any different than another skill?

 

[iwannacoach]

Geez, can I just say because Nastia says so, and be done with it. Hmm, I thought not. There may be more, but here are three things I see as major stumbling blocks for kids learning to kip.....

Most kids don't have the strength to glide properly until they've been through a year of more of beginning team conditioning at level 4 or 5.

Glide kips require an unusual combination of what's nearly a linear swing that reverses and gets converted to a circular swing, and that's a pretty complicated motion unless you're a yo-yo.

It's a counter intuitive skill that confuses beginning and intermediate kids, who think that glide kips are an evil prank, because the "sensible" thing to do is to pull yourself up rather than allow your circular momentum to swing you up...... and it *is totally* a swing skill from the moment you jump off the floor and grab the bar, even if it takes great abs, hip flexors, and hamstring flexibility.

 

[profmom]

You know, I don't think I quite understood what Iwannacoach is saying above, even after watching my DD struggle for three years to master this skill, until I watched up close as my DS's talented young coach taught it to the boys on high bar this year. In part I think because he was a competitive gymnast not that long ago, he was both able to do the body shaping with them in slow motion through the skill repeatedly and talk them through it in a lot of detail.

I know it's easier for most boys than most girls because of the nature of the bar, but I still think the guy should get a lot of credit for now having a cohort of boys who've all just finished their first years at L5 after only one year at L4 who all have it (albeit some inconsistently).

At least the girls only have to kip on one event!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

it is a skill that requires every muscle in the body to fire in concert at a precise moment. the required strength weight ratio and coordination and the neuro senses to feel and control gravity just don't exist when you just 1st begin gymnastics. it requires time and reps just like anything else on bars. it is what it is.

 

[cbifoja]

And not all kids take a long time. My daughter learned them pretty quickly. I'm not bragging because trust me, she may be able to kip but the child cannot do a split leap with straight legs to save her life. I'm just saying that not all kids do take a long time. She has worked longer on getting a strong cast handstand than she ever did that kip.

 

[bogwoppit]

And not all kids take a long time. My daughter learned them pretty quickly. I'm not bragging because trust me, she may be able to kip but the child cannot do a split leap with straight legs to save her life. I'm just saying that not all kids do take a long time. She has worked longer on getting a strong cast handstand than she ever did that kip.

I hear you. We had a girl join our gym and within a few weeks she was Kipping beautifully, a total natural for sure. Meanwhile other girls who had been in the gym for years took an age to get them.

I think some coaches really get how to coach the whole skill, breaking it down into conditioning, shaping, drills and spotting. Where some just go at it by doing the skill over and over until the kid gets it. Clearly the first type of coach will have more success and faster.

 

[Clover]

Yep. I think it totally depends upon the girl. My DD also got a nice kip very quickly, but the FHS Vault was a whole other story!

 

[Flossyduck]

They look sooo easy. I watch the girls go for it and just drop down at the last second, when it looks as though they should just pop up. It looks as though they're not really trying. It's a funny thing to watch... Took my daughter about six months from first float drills to getting hers. I don't know if that's long or not, but it's definitely the longest time it's taken her to learn anything yet.

 

[iwannacoach]

You know, I don't think I quite understood what Iwannacoach is saying above, even after watching my DD struggle for three years to master this skill, until I watched up close as my DS's talented young coach taught it to the boys on high bar this year. In part I think because he was a competitive gymnast not that long ago, he was both able to do the body shaping with them in slow motion through the skill repeatedly and talk them through it in a lot of detail.

I know it's easier for most boys than most girls because of the nature of the bar, but I still think the guy should get a lot of credit for now having a cohort of boys who've all just finished their first years at L5 after only one year at L4 who all have it (albeit some inconsistently).

At least the girls only have to kip on one event!

You don't understand what I wrote because you're trying top relate to your son's experience. The boys have a huge advantage because they swing up to the same (sort of) position the girls have to glide to. In addition to having it easier by swinging, the swing has an upward component that reverses and converts to a somewhat circular swing motion with far fewer complications than does a glide. Watch the two closely, and you may understand the difficulty of swinging upward at the end of a glide.

Sure, there's kids who have an easier time with glide kips, but I doubt Nastia and Shawn Johnson count themselves among them.

 

[GymBeeMom]

Because they are hard.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

I think some coaches really get how to coach the whole skill, breaking it down into conditioning, shaping, drills and spotting. Where some just go at it by doing the skill over and over until the kid gets it. Clearly the first type of coach will have more success and faster.

Yes and by breaking it down, you can work the kip action hundreds of times before ever trying a kip. We have our kids doing progressions right from when they start in a group. When more specific drills are added and attempts made, many kids learn it quickly in relation to when they started specific drills, but they have been doing kip actions for much longer.

 

[CoachTodd]

Glide kips have many parts that have to come together at the right time. All involve strength of muscles most people never even use. This is why some of the stronger kids (or boys) may seem to get the skill more quickly. On the same note, you can be as strong as a bull and if the timing is off, you'll fall.
People have all also pointed to coaching. Depending on the kid, how you tell them to do parts of the skill makes a huge difference.
If yo video your DD's kip attempts, you can most likely show her exactly where the skill is going wrong. It will most likely be a pull on the bar and the head going back.

 

[Aussie_coach]

It is not that the kip is so difficult to learn, it is just difficult to learn at the level they are expected to learn it. Bars is quite different to other apparatus, it needs a strength and timing which a lot of gymnasts have not developed at level 4 or 5.

 

[iwannacoach]

And the winner is..........

Because they are hard.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

I think some coaches really get how to coach the whole skill, breaking it down into conditioning, shaping, drills and spotting. Where some just go at it by doing the skill over and over until the kid gets it. Clearly the first type of coach will have more success and faster.

It's interesting, that "When will my Susie Start Kipping?" video, while really funny, really opened my eyes to the whole process of learning skills. I don't understand all the terms that they use in the video, or that dd's coaches use, but for that one skill that LOOKS so easy, to have so many different components is really incredible.

Sometimes I just have to stop and marvel at how incredible these little people are for the skills that they can do. And how incredible the coaches are for helping these little people get to the skills they can do!

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

People have all also pointed to coaching. Depending on the kid, how you tell them to do parts of the skill makes a huge difference.

My dd just got her kip...after nearly a year. While I am sure she became much stronger along the way, she said that the day she "got it" her coach told her to "do a front hip circle out of your kip". For some reason, that worked for her. I've never done a kip, so I can't imagine while that was particularly helpful...but she could have sprinkled fairy dust to help her, and I wouldn't question it!

 

[meeeshymoo]

Interestingly dd got this skill very quickly, in a matter of a couple of sessions.
Giants on the other hand, several years !

 

[MaryA]

I think the thing is that the kip is hard without the "wow" factor that comes with a lot of the other hard skills. Handsprings and layouts and giants (oh my!) all LOOK hard, and are very impressive to watch, but the kip is just a way to get up onto the low bar.

 

[Quadqueen]

Interestingly dd got this skill very quickly, in a matter of a couple of sessions.
Giants on the other hand, several years !

don't tell me that! DD got her kip fairly quickly and is oh so close to those giants....but I know they can be so close for so long!!!

 

[txgymfan]

Mary A, THATS IT. As a kid on the monkey bars at school I tried to "kip" and do a "mill circle"( without knowing the terms) and could never do them. Once I started following gym stuff closely I thought "no wonder I could not do them in 1/2 hour of recess a day. They are HARD and don't look like it.