WAG Yurchenko vs. Tsuk - which one is harder?

[LesleysMom]

My daughter learned a Yurchenko a year ago... Level 5 up-training at Level 7 at that time. She didn’t compete it Level 7 obviously, but it’s there for up-training for 8 this summer.

 

[sce]

All of our 6s and 7s are training tsuks. The half on-half off part "seems" easy. What is hard is adding a back tuck to the half off part and then landing on your feet!

It’s not half on, half off, It’s more like 1/4, 1/4, you end up facing the opposite of when you started. I
Do agree that doing a round off over the table may not be hard but doing it and generating the power to do a flip is harder. It does take a long time for most to do it correctly and safely.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Tsuk is easier to learn but harder to do cleanly

 

[Deleted member 14190]

The reason you see a lot of chenkos is because they are easier for a lot of kids.

 

[gymgal]

Just so everyone knows, this thread is from 2014. It was inadvertently brought back to life by a new member. I am sure a mod will be a long to lock it or whatever they do...

Lesley'sMom, the mods don't like it when we bring old threads back up especially one where the question was sufficiently answered by others. Most often, after about 3-6 months, the original poster would have moved on from needing that info anyway. It's good practice to always check the date of the thread first. Some stay active for a long time so you should check both the original and the most recent comments. No worries. It happens a lot with new members, though I do believe there is something about it in the rules before you sign up for CB.

My daughter learned a Yurchenko a year ago... Level 5 up-training at Level 7 at that time. She didn’t compete it Level 7 obviously, but it’s there for up-training for 8 this summer.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

After practice she told me her coach said that tsuk is something really hard. It might look easy into the pit, but it takes a lot of timing and practice before you can do and stick it, without breaking your ankles!

The coach actually said this!? Out loud!? To the gymmies!?

Crud old thread sorry

 

[reluctant]

The reason you see a lot of chenkos is because they are easier for a lot of kids.

But I think people like to say the harder vault is the one their kid is doing . My DD has a Tsuk entry. It's definitely harder than the Yurchenko .

 

[jenjean70]

Do girls ever do kas vaults?

 

[sce]

Do girls ever do kas vaults?

Sometimes, but I think much more rarely than boys

 

[duyetanh]

But I think people like to say the harder vault is the one their kid is doing . My DD has a Tsuk entry. It's definitely harder than the Yurchenko .

Bahaha so true. Ironically the tsuk was easier for my kid but the gym felt she should do a yurchenko. So for her the yurchenko was honestly harder because she was already happily on the tsuk path the year before....but now of course a tsuk would be harder because she has been doing a yurchenko! LOL!!!!

 

[Aero]

Do girls ever do kas vaults?

A Tsukahara vault is one that has a uniform twist direction throughout the pre-flight and post-flight, and a Kasamatsu vault is one that has an opposite twist direction between the two phases.

More specifically:

• A Tsuk vault with twists are for gymnasts who twist the same direction of their round-off; an athlete who round-offs on floor with their left foot in front, technically a right twist (and would have the same pre-flight entry on vault), will also twist to the right in the post-flight of the vault. This is actually much more rare in today's current elite climate. Some would argue that these vaults are learned by kids who who tumble and twist in the "wrong" directions, and some would even say that a true Tsukahara vault is more difficult than a Kasamatsu for this reason.
• A Kaz vault with twists are for gymnasts who twist the opposite direction of their round-off; an athlete who round-offs on floor with their left foot in front, technically a right twist (and would have the same pre-flight entry on vault), will actually twist to the left in the post-flight of the vault. This is the much more common vault among today's elite athletes, and I believe this is because correct twisting theory/technique has been taught to these newer athletes from the beginning. Some say that a Kaz vault is a bit easier than a Tsuk vault for this very reason.

Some other details:

• A Tsuk has a 1/2 rotation built in. It is a 1/4 on - 1/4 off, followed by any twists or flips that may come after. The 1/4 on + 1/4 off equals a 1/2 twist throughout the vault's first phases.
  
• A Kaz has a 1/1 rotation built in, albeit being completed in a strange way. It starts as a 1/4 on, but because the twist direction is opposite to the pre-flight twist direction, it has to unwind 3/4 in order to put it in the same ending position as the Tsuk. Therefore, a Kaz vault has a 3/4 twist built in.
• Because of the twist theory involved in these vaults, they have differing and confusing definitions: a Tsuk full is simply a Kaz, whereas a Tsuk double full is considered a Kaz full.
• These vaults are recognized differently between the MAG and WAG code of points. There is a clear distinction between the vault styles in the MAG code, where, conversely, the WAG code describes all round-off style vault entries as being a Tsukahara-type vault. Why this is, I simply do not know; it's stupid!

Some final history details:

• Mitsuo Tsukahara of Japan was the first gymnast to compete his skill, and thus get it named after him, in 1972 at the Olympics in Munich, Germany.
  
• Shigeru Kasamatsu of Japan was the first gymnast to compete his skill, and thus get it named after him, in 1974 at the World Championships in Varna, Bulgaria.

 

[John]

I think it is athlete specific. My DD says the Tsuk is easier for her. She is not working it her coach wants Yurichenko vaults, more specifically he wants them with twists.

 

[Hollowarchkick]

A tsuk is generally considered less complex. If you can get over the vault efficiently and can do a roundoff snap through to your back onto a wedge, you’ve got a pretty good tsuk. The key is the snap and turnover off the second hand. Speed helps and makes it bigger but it can really be done with a good entry and aggressive second hand block and turnover. I teach at least the drills for this into pit because they learn to snap and flip. That carries over to a yurchenko. I’ll usually do a tsuk in level 8 and train the yurchenko timers for a couple years. Those that are excelling with the drills and don’t have huge power will do yurchenkos. You also want to look at how the hands are turned on the table to make sure they don’t turn out. That’ll cause wrist/ elbow injuries especially with tight shoulders.
There’s just a lot that goes into deciding which vault is better long term. The hard thing is abandoning a good vault because it’ll cause injury down the line. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Get the numbers in for whatever vault you’re doing.

 

[reluctant]

My daughter learned a Yurchenko a year ago... Level 5 up-training at Level 7 at that time. She didn’t compete it Level 7 obviously, but it’s there for up-training for 8 this summer.

That's amazing. I feel like many level 8s don't get their flipping vault until midway through the season. There are tons of FHS vaults at Level 8 sessions.

 

[munchkin3]

That's amazing. I feel like many level 8s don't get their flipping vault until midway through the season. There are tons of FHS vaults at Level 8 sessions.

that will change this (next) season FINALLY....the Chenko timer is allowed in L7 as a precursor to L8.
They should have done this a while ago since the leap from FHS to chenko is huge and most new L8s need more time to flip the vault properly.
Unless of course your gym had been doing chenkos since L6 and ....perfect in 7 and ....ready to compete in 8.
The timer is SO great for a L7 option!