WAG Getting to NATs/NIT from regionals - rant

[flippin out]

Lol bookworm! Love your post

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

^^^^^ I thought if a child 'lived' in one state and trained at a gym in a different state, they could choose which state to compete for. Logically in this situation the child competes at their state meet for which there gym is located because of coaching etc... If you found a CGM and paired them with a coach silly enough to run with it - tada. I know some level four CGM's would do this, but do you find them to still be that crazy by level 10?

 

[gymmomof1]

^^^^^ I thought if a child 'lived' in one state and trained at a gym in a different state, they could choose which state to compete for. Logically in this situation the child competes at their state meet for which there gym is located because of coaching etc... If you found a CGM and paired them with a coach silly enough to run with it - tada. I know some level four CGM's would do this, but do you find them to still be that crazy by level 10?

Lol not this upper level mom, I'm too old and tired of all the driving I do now plus I just pray she stays in one piece each practice. I hope she stays health enOugh next year to make it to states then regionals/nationals would be a bonus

 

[bookworm]

Lol bookworm! Love your post

Happy to entertain

 

[gracyomalley]

No idea what the answer is - but I do know that being in a small region - our team has to travel to other regions often to "see what the real competition is like". Our girls generally may score different in different areas, but they end up placing similarly...so middle of the road girls who at home score 34s, may at a big meet score 36s and still be middle of the road, etc....

Obviously there are scoring differences between regions.

I also know that our recent L10s who are competing at D1 schools made nationals repeatedly but were not particularly competitive there. (one generally scored in the 36-37 range for years as a L10, one more 35s...but always high on a particular event, which is what she is competing now in college). I know that they were the first kids to make it to D1 schools from within hundreds of miles...ever!

I know that by the time kids hit L7 in our region they, and their parents, start to see that their pond is small....and also their options. There are no gyms training more than 20 hours max within 200miles. There is only one, small boys team in the same area. There are presently NO L10s, and only about 6 POTENTIAL L9s in same area this year. Even for summer training coaches can be brought in, but otherwise kids travel great distances. If a child/family is unhappy about their present gym they have essentially 2 choices for girls, and one for boys....or you quit gym, or move your family...

Honestly, I don't think its "fair" for our girls to go to Nationals with 34s if girls from other regions with 37s sit home...and I'd like to see the level of intensity increased a bit here - but I'm sort of a transplant from a much bigger area....

Even in our state/region, the age group thing is the same - just on a smaller scale. There have been many meets where DD would have been all over the podium had she been in an older age group....but that's just the way the ball bounces....those Jr A level 10s have plenty of time to get there and if kids from our team can get to college gym it speaks to how much a good coach can do if the kid is truely talented, no matter what region they come from/high-scoring huge or low scoring small or in between.

I figure we are the Jamacian bob sled team of gymnastics - you can tell our kids are good - and might be great if they had different training, etc...but we get in to REPRESENT!

 

[flippin out]

I don't think restructuring regions yearly is the answer.
For example, a region can have 50 Jr A, and only 24 Jr B.....the next region may only have 20 Jr A and have 45 Jr B. So are they to restructure yearly per age group? ---- one age group at a club compete for region 4 and at the same club the girl one age group up compete for region 3, OR are they to restructure and make it fair for one age group and not the others? Either way.....it's not gonna be fair to all.

Can always do what bookworm suggested lol. If you think your kid has a better shot in another region, they can always choose to compete there instead. I personally wouldn't drive to a different region but to each their own.

 

[bookworm]

^^^^^ I thought if a child 'lived' in one state and trained at a gym in a different state, they could choose which state to compete for.

We were in a border gym for a while and this is true but when we started at the gym they said to us that all their gymnasts competed in the gym's home state, not the gymnast's...

 

[gracyomalley]

I don't think restructuring regions yearly is the answer.
For example, a region can have 50 Jr A, and only 24 Jr B.....the next region may only have 20 Jr A and have 45 Jr B. So are they to restructure yearly per age group? ---- one age group at a club compete for region 4 and at the same club the girl one age group up compete for region 3, OR are they to restructure and make it fair for one age group and not the others? Either way.....it's not gonna be fair to all.

Can always do what bookworm suggested lol. If you think your kid has a better shot in another region, they can always choose to compete there instead. I personally wouldn't drive to a different region but to each their own.

drive to another region??? that's a 15 hour drive!!

 

[wandrewsjr]

I don't think restructuring regions yearly is the answer.
For example, a region can have 50 Jr A, and only 24 Jr B.....the next region may only have 20 Jr A and have 45 Jr B. So are they to restructure yearly per age group? ---- one age group at a club compete for region 4 and at the same club the girl one age group up compete for region 3, OR are they to restructure and make it fair for one age group and not the others? Either way.....it's not gonna be fair to all.

Can always do what bookworm suggested lol. If you think your kid has a better shot in another region, they can always choose to compete there instead. I personally wouldn't drive to a different region but to each their own.

I don't think anyone would suggest restructuring yearly. I think having 50 in one age group and 25 in another is close enough. It's having 6 in one age group in one Region and 45 in that age group in another Region that is ridiculous. I don't think restructuring every 20 years or so to account for major population shifts would be asking too much.

 

[txgymfan]

The us Census is every 10 years, restructuring every 10 makes sense to me. I do understand that there are arguments to me made on all sides. All the regions want to be represented on a national level . At the same time it doesn't seem equitable that there is such a disparity at nationals. I hate the word "fair" because nothing is ever fair and if you fix the problem to make it more fair to one person then someone will describe how its not fair to someone else. So I don't have answers but I do think the regions need to be rearranged.

 

[justanothergymmom]

I don't think anyone would suggest restructuring yearly. I think having 50 in one age group and 25 in another is close enough. It's having 6 in one age group in one Region and 45 in that age group in another Region that is ridiculous. I don't think restructuring every 20 years or so to account for major population shifts would be asking too much.

Yep...R2 JrB has 3 and R7 JrB has 43...it is what it is....

 

[gymgal]

Region 8 has 1 session just for Level 10 Jr A. A whole session! And only 7 get to go. It's not fair.

actually, it us not as bad as it first seems. Here is the link for the region 8 breakdown. For whatever reason, they put the Jr A in their own session, but there are only 35 (yes, I know the word 'only' is relative here) Jr b has 40 and is own session as well. I am not sure why they choose to do that because all the other sessions have 2 age divisions but it could have been that they couldn't get the numbers to work any other way. The range is 23-40. http://www.region8gymnastics.org/article/view/id/558

 

[gymgal]

I don't think it's so much a CGM thing because the coaches are bothered by it too. I think it's an exposure and recognition thing. Especially for girls looking for college scholarships. Those tournaments are where they get seen. And are great to place on your gymnastics resume. Scoring a 37+ at regionals and not being able to go to nationals because the regions have to be equally represented really stinks...

Why not get rid of the team age division competition at nationals and do it like many of the L8 regionals are doimg? There is just one state winner. Not a winner for each age division. Each region fields a team of 8 (or whatever number the powers that be see fit) across all age groups. Then the remaining spots are allocated per region based on a percentage of the number of gymnasts making it to regionals that year.

From there, it could be a few different ways.
- the top scores regardless of age groups
- the spots are divided evenly among the age groups
- the top 3 in each age group get in and the rest of the spots go to the highest scores regardless of age (I personally prefer this because we all know that judging changes between sessions - whether it's different judges, fatigue, better understanding of level of competition, etc. making sure girls aren't penalized because they were first session of the meet is important. But it also allows girls with high scores in the stronger age divisions a shot at picking up a spot)

There will always be problems with the system, but the powers that be really need to take a closer look at this so that we don't have so many excellent gymnasts staying home when there are others who are barely making the minimal requirement getting spots.

 

[wandrewsjr]

^^^ I kind of like that idea, just one "super team" competition at Nationals. Even a smaller Region like R2 could produce a competitive team with their top 8 level 10's.

 

[bookworm]

To be honest with you, I've never thought that the whole Nationals qualification process needed changing...we knew what it is when we started in the sport so it is what it is. Some years the numbers have been in our favor, and some years we've had a big age group (like this year) but there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

I don't think re-doing the regions every so many years is the answer because as someone mentioned, that probably won't be fair to those you are rearranging. I know people fret when a kid with a 37 doesn't make it and "how does it look to a college" but college coaches realize that , for whatever reason (lopsided #s in certain regions being among them) , kids miss out on JOs ...it is up to your coach and the gymnast and parents to market their kid despite not making it to JOs. We had several kids in our regionals yesterday who are already committed to various schools who did not make JOs and never have...and they are still committed! So do not despair on that....

 

[gymgal]

You are right, bookworm. It just makes it easier for recruiting because so many of the colleges show up (it so I'm told). But I suppose the same holds true for gymnasts who have one super event but not a super stellar aa. Yes they have the chance of NIT, but only if they come in 1st. If they miss it by 0.025, which seems to happen often in individual events, they are out of luck. It us what it is.

 

[Natasha]

True, we did have a strong L10 gymnast at my dd's old gym several years ago who never made it to Easterns or Nationals. I believe she was an L10 for 5 years, but just had a tough age group or didn't do her best at regions. She was still recruited by a couple of D1 schools and did end up with a full scholarship.

 

[mpkbt]

This has annoyed me for years! We were in region 2 when my dd was a level 8 and 9 and then moved to region 1 the year she went 10....What the heck! I look at the scores from region 2 and a 34.05 goes to regionals and my dd went to NIT with a 36.5 and they overscore in region2. I mean do you really think that girl legit got a 34.05? Seems like a little cooking of the books to me. It did work out for my dd team mate that ended up getting to go to Nationals from 8th place since region 2 couldn't fill their spots.
I am pretty sure to that if you win an event but don't qualify for nationals/NIT you only get to compete on that event at the NIT.
I flat out asked a college coach about the Nationals thing and they said they were aware of it. That is why there will be a huge amount of coaches at region 1 and not so many at region 2 regionals. If you look on gymdiva's web site they have them broken down by region...look at the amount that get scholarships in region 2 vs region 1. Still it is hard to hear on my facebook all the kids from dd old team celebrating going to nationals with a couple of falls.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

They have solutions available, it just has to get passed.... Good luck with that.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I really think if everyone here on CB sends a NICE email to all the regional reps, voicing your concerns it will pressure them to bring up another vote, (keep in Mind that some regional reps are ALREADY in favor of making changes so please be polite).
Raising the minimum score to a 35.7 would be a start (and totally fair).... And a sliding scale based on total number of 10's at each region would further even the playing field. Lets not forget this is about MONEY, yep,,, your little DD's are now jockeying for scholarships and a child seen has a HUGE advantage over a child left at home....