WAG L10 and elites?

[Orangesoda]

I've been following the threads discussing the whole college recruiting debacle and I have a question that I'm sure has an obvious answer but here goes:

Do college gymnasts all compete against each other at L10? Or are they not scored based on the JO levels? Are they considered elites? Is there any crossover at that level?

I know that "elites" start training as such at an early age, and skip the whole JO thing. How do they skip it? Do they test out of the JO levels at their convenience? Do any gymnasts come up through the JO levels, complete level 10 and then "go elite?" What am I missing?

Sorry, I hate to posit questions that could be answered using a search, but I'm not sure what terms to use to get the specific info I'm looking for.

 

[Seeker]

I'll tell you what I know and rely on others to fill in the gaps...

1. Elites do not "skip JO" per se. Most, if not all, compete a rather standard course up thru the JO levels at least thru L8. There is certainly a bit of give and take there, but elite candidates are born out of the JO system. Many that are on that path take the time after L8 or L9 to focus on building skills for the Elite testing and beyond. There are certainly exceptions to this (like Nastia competed very limitedly in JO, but she didn't skip it entirely).

2. Elites do not have to compete up thru L10 and then go to Elite...they can compete whatever levels they want to (in accordance with the rules of progression), but it is not required. The requirement to move to Elite is to compete at a sanctioned meet and get a qualifying score and pass the Elite compulsory tests. Some move their training to focus specifically on this after about L8 and they may or may not compete L9 and L10 or may do so on a limited basis. I think that the reason many Elites don't compete up thru L10 (or do so on a limited basis) is because once they're on that path, the training and the goals change. The JO season is opposite of Elite, so that is a big consideration. This year, there were several Jr's that competed JO and then moved directly into Jr Elite competitions...this gives them no downtime or off-season for quite a while, so that is pretty tough to do.

3. If an athlete is not on the Elite path and goes to L10 and presumably competes that level for several years, they begin to know one another and compete against each other often at invitationals, regionals and nationals. So yes, by the time they make it to college and are competing there, they all likely know each other or at least know of each other a bit.

4. College gymnastics has its own code -- the NCAA code. It is similar (but not) to L9/L10 JO requirements, but is manifested in a very different way based a variety of factors (namely NCAA gymnastics is a TEAM sport so that changes the strategy of competition greatly).

5. College gymnasts are not considered Elites. Some of them competed Elite when they were part of JO and in rare cases there are some that pursue Elite status after college (Mohini Bhardwa, Anna Li) but that is not common.

6. It may have happened at some point, but it is also not common for a gymnast to compete NCAA and Elite at the same time...I think there may be a few rare examples (Vanessa Zamarripa is the only one I can think of recently), but the rigors of both would be far too much for most athletes. The two don't mix well...NCAA season is LONG and competing Elite doesn't mix well with the school calendar.

 

[Terry]

I'll tell you what I know and rely on others to fill in the gaps...


6. It may have happened at some point, but it is also not common for a gymnast to compete NCAA and Elite at the same time...I think there may be a few rare examples (Vanessa Zamarripa is the only one I can think of recently), but the rigors of both would be far too much for most athletes. The two don't mix well...NCAA season is LONG and competing Elite doesn't mix well with the school calendar.

I think Alicia sacramone did it for one year. And what a year it was. In 2006/07 she competed NCAA at Brown and also trained elite at Brestyans and competed at nationals and worlds. All while taking a full time program of study at Brown. I do not have any clue how anyone is able to do this. Much less do it successfully.

 

[Orangesoda]

@Seeker thank you for the education! So helpful.

So if I may simplify and generalize, a gymnast wanting to compete into their "later" years is either planning to go to college and do the NCAA thing, or qualify as an elite gymnast and compete in those competitions. Yes?

 

[Seeker]

Oh yes, I forgot about Alicia. I'm sure it was really hard!

 

[LJL07]

@Seeker thank you for the education! So helpful.

So if I may simplify and generalize, a gymnast wanting to compete into their "later" years is either planning to go to college and do the NCAA thing, or qualify as an elite gymnast and compete in those competitions. Yes?

I probably shouldn't even bother chiming in since there are many with far more expertise, but I don't think so. My understanding is that elite is a totally different path. I am hearing of young kids identified as pre-elite, and so they don't spend much time competing lower compulsory levels. Once they get to elite level, I have heard of some girls dropping back to level 10. I'm thinking of Lizzy Leduc for example, who was elite but dropped to 10 and is verbally committed to LSU. Do I have that right?

 

[Seeker]

Yeah....agree with AandAsmom. It's not so easy to generalize and we all know that plans and the desired path is often changed by growth, fears, middle school, high school, "teen years", etc. Not every kid has plans to go to L10 and attrition is great after L7, so I think it's tough to put them in neat little boxes.

And yes, it is common to compete Elite and then drop back to L10 prior to going to college.

 

[Orangesoda]

Why wouldn't an elite compete at that level and then go straight to college? Why the need to compete level 10 and then college?

 

[bookworm]

Why wouldn't an elite compete at that level and then go straight to college? Why the need to compete level 10 and then college?

There's no "need " to compete level 10 before college, it's just easier on the body before college...a lot of elites do 2 a day practices and a body can only hold up so long with that kind of regimen...

 

[happychaos]

Why wouldn't an elite compete at that level and then go straight to college? Why the need to compete level 10 and then college?

Yes to what Bookworm said, and additionally I think there are some that do elite and then realize how intense it is, or they realize they are not going to make the National team, or whatever their dream was, and they decide that a good career in JO L10 and NCAA is the way to go.

 

[Orangesoda]

So the primary objective of girls training elite is to make the national team and represent the USA in international competitions. Yes?

How many elites are there currently in the US? I'm not asking about those training to become elite. I'm talking those who have already qualified.

 

[Terry]

Also, besides NCAA there are college gymnastic clubs for people who do not have the opportunity to do NCAA. They compete under NAIGC with (I think) level 9 rules and its much more relaxed. It is a way for women (and guys too I guess) to continue with gymnastics as they get "older" even if they did not make it into elite or NCAA.

 

[Terry]

So the primary objective of girls training elite is to make the national team and represent the USA in international competitions. Yes?

How many elites are there currently in the US? I'm not asking about those training to become elite. I'm talking those who have already qualified.

I do not know the exact number now because it varies year to year but its less than 100. I think somewhere in between 70 and 80.

And the answer to your first question is yes.

 

[Ponyshine]

What exactly is 'college gymnastics' ? I've heard a lot about it,but it's not something we do here in the UK

 

[GikiGirl]

MacKenzie Caquatto did it, I believe, by going to Worlds in 2010 the same year she was a freshman at Florida.

 

[gymgal]

I do not know the exact number now because it varies year to year but its less than 100. I think somewhere in between 70 and 80.

Are there really that many international elites? I would have guessed under 50, given who I have seen at recent events. But I don't pay that close attention.

 

[bogwoppit]

There are probably that many who qualified elite this year. But not all of them are strong enough to qualify to championships. Then from champs the top 6 junior and senior are named to the National team. There are already girls on the team from previous years. But probably not more than 25 all together (not sure though). These are the girls that will represent the USA at International meets.

Just qualifying elite does not mean you will be on the nat team or compete for the USA.

Many, many kids qualify elite and never make champs or the nat team. These girls tens to drop back to L10 or quit due to burn out. Elite is very tough, and very expensive.

 

[BlairBob]

The US currently has 18 girls on the Sr and Jr National teams. They are the ELITE. Well besides Gabby Douglas, Aly Reisman, and McKayla Maroney. They could still be considered ELITE.

Last I remember there are about 200 girls training to be elite. Former national team members could probably be considered ELITE as well if they are still training.

 

[Orangesoda]

More questions (are these q's annoying? I'm enjoying myself!):

How big is the difference in skill level between a competing elite gymnast and a competing L10? I assume the divide is great since elites train so much more. If there are fewer than 100 elites, how many L10's are there in the US?

 

[Terry]

The US currently has 18 girls on the Sr and Jr National teams. They are the ELITE. Well besides Gabby Douglas, Aly Reisman, and McKayla Maroney. They could still be considered ELITE.

Last I remember there are about 200 girls training to be elite. Former national team members could probably be considered ELITE as well if they are still training.

There are girls who qualify for elite but never make it to the national team or even championships.

You can qualify elite through a number of different competitions with a minimum score. You can qualify to elite status by getting a minimum score at regional qualifiers, national qualifiers or a training camp. You can also qualify elite for the following year through a minimum score at nationals the previous year.

While the national teams are chosen from the ranks of the elite , there are more elite gymnasts that do not make the national team (or even national championships). Again, I do not know the exact number this year, but I have seen the actual numbers for previous years and based on that I think its probably in between 70 and 80 -- although again, I do not know the exact number and it may be fewer. But its not just the girls who made it to the national teams or even to national championships