Parents what is the goal?

[z2akids]

I may be stepping on a landmine here, but I have now been reading/posting here for a while. I am having a difficult time reconciling the girls in gymnastics (our at least sine that are often expressed here) versus my experience with my offer children and team sports.

In team sports (and even more individual sports like swim and wrestling that my older kids have participated in) the goal is very often to win - to have the best possible season, etc. They move up to more competitive trends as their skills increase, but asking the easy they want to win.

On the other hand, so often threads here are all about advancing in levels as quickly as possible. Even in a relatively small group like CB, only a very few will ever compete in college, elite, international competition, Olympics. The majority of the young gymnasts here, even talented ones will compete for a few or even many years, but never reach those lofty levels.

Why is winning not considered important unless it is in optionals, elite, etc? My DD is a relatively talented young gymnast. She is not a phenom. Chances are against her as a 9 year old L3 who didn't start gym until almost 8. At least chances of those rarified levels. Her goals are actually much simpler. Since the day she walked into her gym, she has wanted to compete Giants. And, she likes to win. I find both if those goal to be realistic. We have neither the financial means nor the family commitment that a run at the Olympics would take. But, I don't find that to be unworthy. I can't imagine rushing her through levels without the excitement of winning in hope that she doesn't get bored of gym, get too injured to advance to those levels, burn out, discover boys our.the mall, etc.

Maybe I just haven't the experience with the phenoms of the sport. Sure, there are times where I wonder if DD would be like some of the girls here if only we had started her at a younger age, etc.

Wow. That would up long. Anyway, I gutted I just wonder - why rush? Do those who are pushing through levels, scoring out, skipping, etc - have a plan in mind? Am I missing something about the house optional levels that we should be rushing toward?

 

[gymmomx2]

I can only answer for my own children. The reason they like to move up is that they are motivated by skill acquisition. They would rather compete a higher level even if they could win at the lower level. They love, love, love getting new skills!

Also, we like optionals better since you can tailor routines to their strengths.

To be honest, they love competing and placing well too...but I have asked them point blank if they would prefer to move up (and not do as well) or repeat a level (and possible do REALLY well) and both have said try would rather move up.

 

[Dr Maleficent]

Sparkly leotards. All the way.

 

[LizzieLac]

It is no different than any other sport. The percentage of kids that do a Div 1 college sport is probably 10-12% (depending on the sport). So, are you asking why do a sport if you know the odds are strongly against you getting to that level?

I think it starts as the love of the sport, the pleasure of challenging one's body to do something and improve at it, and of course win (at whatever level of competition you are at).

For my kids, the goal is to just keep getting better (oh and my son thinks he could be the next Dustin Pedroia!)

 

[MaryA]

Are you asking why a girl would be moved up to a higher level before she is capable of "winning" at her current level? I do think avoiding boredom and competing at a level that is a good fit would be the two things that come to mind. Boredom: Unless you are at a gym that does lots and lots of uptraining, continuing to spend lots of time working on skill X when you are capable of doing skill Y and Z can be boring. And, in compulsories, doing the same floor routine over and over to the same music can also be boring. And as for the level being a good fit: If your daughter competes level 3 this year and does fine and then has all of her level 4 skills for next season, maybe she could WIN if she competes 3 again next year, but level 4 will be more of a challenge.

Compare it to school. What if you know your kid can get an A in a regular math class but might only be able to get a B if she takes the advanced class? I think most people would choose to have their kid in advanced because it will push her to learn more and may open up different opportunities in the future. Same with gymnastics.

There are certainly teams that want to WIN beyond all else. These are the teams that require 36+ scores to move up. And there's nothing wrong with that if those teams do an excellent job at uptraining so that those kids aren't getting bored. And of course there is the other extreme where teams move kids through multiple levels as quickly as humanly possible. But I think, even if it doesn't seem like it when you're reading CB, neither of those situations is the norm.

Also, I think gymnastics is different than the other sports you mentioned... Those other sports have two teams or two opponents. One wins, one loses. My daughter has been to meets where she is competing against dozens of girls in her age group. So what do you consider "winning" in that circumstance? Is it only the girl who comes in first AA? First place in an event? Top 3? Top 50%? Or do you consider it a "win" for your daughter when she competes a skill successfully for the first time, or gets her qualifying score for states, or achieves some other personal goal? There are plenty of girls in this sport who will never "win" if winning just means that bringing home that first-place trophy. If those girls believe that the only way they can be a successful gymnast is if they "win", it's going to be a very frustrating and short-lived sport for them.

 

[cbifoja]

A pretty complex post with a thousand possible answers. This is mine..

My daughter would rather be a middle of the pack L8 than a winning L7. She loves to do big skills and loves learning new skills. She is the happiest child right after the season ends and she gets to really hit uptraining hard. In her mind (and keep in mind that we are dealing with 10 year old thought processes), she says it would be like her getting straight As in 3rd grade when she is capable of doing 5th grade work. As soon as she has a skill reasonable consistent, she wants to compete it.

We have a couple of gymnasts who won't compete a skill until it's 95% perfect. Obviously, they score REALLY high at meets. But they need that. Their ego requires that they place well (I'm not using ego in the negative sense here). But they don't move up super fast. We have a gymnasts who requests to do a second year at every single level (so far). She's a a young teenager, has been doing team gym longer than my DD has even been on team, and is just this year getting to optionals. But oh my god, if you could watch this child. Just beautiful. But very timid, very slow to get skills, fearful, and a perfectionist.

Another issue is compulsories versus optionals. My DD wasn't a great compulsory gymnast. She was okay, placed consistently, got 35s ad 36s, but even if she were to go back to a compulsory level right now (she's a current L8), she STILL wouldn't be getting those 37s and 38s. Her HC made the decision to get her out of compulsories quickly so she could have some success at the optional level. DD isn't precise, isn't good at the things that compulsory routines stress. But she's done pretty decently as an optional....still not great because she keep pushing to be moved up as soon as she has the skills for the next level and her HC feels similarly.

DD DOES want to do college gymnastics for our local D1. She feels like she needs to be an L10 as a freshman in high school. I hear conflicting information so I don't know if that is accurate or not but it's what she feels she needs. Her HC says she isn't trying to turn DD into the best L7 in the country or the best L8 in the state, but rather wants her getting hard skills before fear and puberty set in. That's why she allows DD to "rush" through the levels.

Wow....I really rambled here. Sorry.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Winning is very important. It's just that some people perceive moving up as winning. In reality it's not, so long as your not holding back.

 

[MILgymFAM]

For my DD the whole skipping levels and rushing through some is due to age. She started and 12 and wants to take it as fast and far as she can. Her choice. Also, all the fun comes (for her) in having her own routines, so compulsories are simply a drag.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

Add my kid to the pack who is happier working on more challenging skills than scoring great/winning.
To me, it's about the personal growth and learning experiences that gymnastics will give my DD for life. She will likely NOT be a college gymnast, and that's totally ok. I want her to enjoy a healthy, fulfilling activity that keeps her fit, challenged and BUSY! she's not one of our top scorers in most events and both her and I are fine with that. I would never want her held back at a level she has already "mastered" to work on minute hand placements etc just for the purpose of scoring well and winning.... Both her and I would rather have her be a middle of the pack whatever level than a bored level below!

 

[cbifoja]

And, she likes to win. I find both if those goal to be realistic. We have neither the financial means nor the family commitment that a run at the Olympics would take. But, I don't find that to be unworthy. I can't imagine rushing her through levels without the excitement of winning in hope that she doesn't get bored of gym, get too injured to advance to those levels, burn out, discover boys our.the mall, etc.

And you are making the right choices for YOUR DD's personality. If winning is important to her, then that's what motivates her. So you are doing right by her. What she likes isn't any less important that what other kinds of gymnasts like.

But some kids are not motivated by winning and medals. I mean, yes, it's always "nice" if you win, but some kids honestly don't care. Mine is very much like that. To her, a "win" is hitting certain skills. She says she had a good meet when she doesn't drop her BHS on beam, hit her HS on her clear hip, etc. Even if she places in 13th place, to her, it would still be a good meet.

She fell on her press handstand mount at state last year. Ended up scoring in the mid 8s and had her best AA of the season, but in her mind, it wasn't a good meet because she fell on a skill she had already hit 8 other times in competitions.

Personally, I'll admit that I don't get it. I have to fight against CGM moments because it's more fun watching your child be on top of that podium It REALLY is. I'll admit that I've let the thought "I've paid hundreds of dollars for 6th place????" dance through my head on the drives home. But it's not about what I want. Yes, I want to win but DD wants to advance. So what I want takes a back seat to the desires of the kid who is putting in 20 hours a week and bravely learning release moves, beam flight series, and flipping vaults.

 

[tooootsie]

I don't think it's about "winning", it's about growth in the sport and growth as a person. My ydd (6) gets a 9 in an eve nt and she is very proud and happy with that. She doesn't get 1st AA ever. My Odd (8) does podium 1st AA, and if she doesn't get top 3 she gets disappointed and works harder. She has Olympic hopes like most. What's wrong with a lofty goal? We all had them as kids.

 

[gymgal]

An important point not hit on yet is that, unlike the other sports mentioned, gymnastics is a subjective sport. It's not a matter of hitting the wall first (swimming) or scoring the most goals. Judges play a big role into whether you get that first place trophy. Scoring is highly subjective. It is one of the major reasons that experienced coaches and parents encourage their gymnasts to avoid using scores and places as a sole indicator of how well they are doing. Often times, that means turning toward how skill acquisition as a sign of progress.

I also think gymnastics is different in that in other sports, your pretty much learn the skills fairly early on and then you work to get stronger, faster, more precise. That is not the case in gymnastics, where each new level brings its own set of new, exciting (scary) skills to master. So the pull to go to the next level is often greater than the pull to stay at the same level to gain an edge on winning. Now, every child is different but I suspect if given the option (with no outside influence), most would choose learning the new skills over staying in a lower level.

Also, what you see on CB is skewed. Parents come here for answers. You are more likely to have parents (and their gymnasts) here that are more invested in gymnastics than the average gym parent. So the idea of fast tracking will appear to be more common than it really is in the real world.

 

[Muddlethru]

Winning is important just like any other sport. Those that are pushed up fast through the levels do have a plan/goal in mind. If you want to pursue elite, you have to get to the elite level at a young age to be competitive. If you want to do college gymnastics, it is the same thing. All sports are equally competitive. The skills however in gymnastics are many, varied and take years to master. I know many friends of mine in different sports (baseball, soccer, etc.) that give their kids private lessons weekly. I don't even have my daughter take any private lessons. As in every sport, you determine your goals and the outcome is whatever you want or want to put into it.

Move ups is a big topic here because many kids (and their parents) don't want to keep repeating the same skills for years. More often than not, kids don't win in their first year or even their second year at any particular level. So the question becomes should she repeat another year and maybe win or move up and learn new skills. I think that is where you see many advocating a move up. In this situation it is not rushing through the levels it could be just maintaining a child's interest in the sport (or a parent no longer wanting to listen to the same compulsory music)

I think too gymnastics has the option to move up mid season or whenever a coach deems appropriate. In other sports, you have to finish an entire season. So the goal becomes more of how many games you can win. I think a big difference too is I know in soccer we get moved up a division depending on how many games you win. In gymnastics, you get moved up depending on what skills you are able to master.

 

[lovemygymnast]

I have read about fast tracking on CB but that's not something I've seen at our gym. I do know my child is very motivated by new skills/moving up levels. She doesn't have that win,win,win mentality at 6 and I'm grateful for that but she is on the podium most of the time. I know when she feels she earned her medals, she wears them all day...if not, she throws them immediately in her backpack and we don't discuss it. I don't want her to move up unless she's successful, not necessarily 1st AA (since she's generally in a group of 8 year olds!) but successful, scores well and tries hard, makes her skills.

 

[kaloss]

Our gym likes to get girl to optionals quickly, as long as they can be safe and successful. We had a girl that was new to the gym last year, competed level 4 all season and is competing level 7, this year. That's not the norm but she truly is a little rock star.

 

[lovemygymnast]

Our gym likes to get girl to optionals quickly, as long as they can be safe and successful. We had a girl that was new to the gym last year, competed level 4 all season and is competing level 7, this year. That's not the norm but she truly is a little rock star.

I was told by a couple of experienced coaches separately that compulsories are more for teaching form but once they have the skills and form, there's no reason to hold them in compulsories? I don't know where my DD will go from here, but at our gym, there's no going too fast since there's no fast tracking.

 

[my4buffaloes]

There is just so much more to gymnastics than winning 1 out of 8 meets in a year. So very much more. There are life lessons to be learned in losing, in practicing, in overcoming the odds against you or in injuries, etc. For whatever reason, gymnastics is just different than other sports.

 

[kandkfunk]

Winning is a great goal, but winning is defined differently by people. My DD did not place in her first season as (old) level 4. It was a great victory for her when she earned her first ever placement and got to stand on the podium. By the end of her second season, she had won several event and all-around placements. After that, she enjoyed winning but it was never her main motivator. She won a couple of state event titles at (old) level 5 and 6, but her main motivator was to get to optionals. For her, winning was achieving the goal of hitting optionals and then acquiring new skills. Bettering her previous performances and facing her fears head on (which will most likely rear their ugly head as you move up) became the type of wins that motivated her to continue. When she decided to retire after level 8, it wasn't because she wasn't winning as much at meets, it was because she knew she wasn't going to be able to progress and acquire new skills. She had topped out at her level. Looking back, she is very happy with her career and feels like she had a lot of wins. One of the biggest was making it to level 8 after an old coach told her she would never progress past level 5. It's all about perspective.

 

[skschlag]

I think that is the important part. In gymnastics, the win is not always defined by the place on the podium. The win is defined by getting a new skill, sticking a dismount, hitting all events with no big errors, moving up a level, improving a score or aa score. The win is individual and subjective. It isn't black and white.

Now, kids do love to get on that podium. But it isn't everything. In fact, my son was more excited when he hit his giants for the first time than his 1st placeo n pommel that meet. When he won state on high bar, the win was great, but he was more excited that he had improved from a season beginning 4.65 to a state winning score.

I think that is what makes gymnastics and gymnasts so different.

 

[poodlemomma]

I think the goal of everything we do is to win. Why else try to get better? But I think as others have pointed out, winning means something different to everyone.

Non-gymnastics examples.

We camp a lot through the summer and thus we play a lot of card games. I always play to win, no matter who I play against. But if my ONLY goal was to win every hand, I would never let one of my children be my partner... NEVER LOL But that is how they learn and we share technics and skills through the game to help them become better card players.

My boys are in football and some of their best games are games they didn't win. But both teams played such good football (because they played to win), that the games were just simply amazing to watch and FUN! To me and them, a win! Many of the boys on the team put those losing games as their favorite high school memories when it came to senior biographies.