WAG 8th Grader Verbally Committed Today. Class of 2023

[josie55]

I'm always curious what the college coaches are looking for by "watching practices"....

So the other thing that is funny about this, as it relates to early recruiting and observing 9-12 year-olds in practice is this.... As anyone who has an older daughter (gymnast or non) can attest, personalities and behavior change A LOT between those ages and when they are old enough to attend college. It's kind of comical to imagine a college coach observing how a 12 year-old behaves, and somehow thinking that they will be acting the same way as an 18-22 year-old.... I mean, I'm sure they know they will grow up, but even things like how compliant they are and their overall attitude can shift quite a bit throughout middle and high school, as it should.

 

[Natasha]

It seems there two distinct factions in the gym world at this current time. Those that think everything is fine and feel things should continue as they are and those that think things are broken and need fixing. It would be nice to have everyone agree but that expectation is not reality. Folks including myself can be blinded by potential and success at times, it would be nice if those in power would establish rules to protect the innocent. I think us parents should listen to others that have already been there done that and learn from them. I myself think college gymnastics is different than club gymnastics but to be honest I am not sure that difference is large enough to be felt. I would love to hear from those here that have had athletes in college. And everyone please remember that we are trying to raise good healthy adults, not gymnasts, gymnastics is our chosen path to the desired ending.

I can't speak to having a collegiate athlete, but I can speak to having a college student and some of the things we learned in the process of visiting multiple college gymnastics programs and talking to coaches. My dd decided at the last minute to not do NCAA. She was all set to compete at D1 school, had registered for classes, completed orientation, had her room all planned with her roommate, etc. HER goal was always to be a college gymnast. She stuck with gymnastics all through High school even when she had no teammates her age and competed for 3 years as a solo L10 at her gym because she was intent on her dream of college gymnastics. She even paid her own way to one of the college summer camps. She took the lead in talking to coaches and handling all the recruiting. She was over the moon when she was first offered a spot on a team.
This summer she decided that she did not want to go to the school she had planned and ended up at a school which was a much better academic fit for her but does not have NCAA gymnastics- she is doing the college club gymnastics and having fun with it. She is now very happy, is pursuing a very rigorous major (which would likely not have worked with gymnastics schedule), is involved in several campus clubs and activities, she goes to all the SEC home football games AND gets enough sleep She is exploring things like study abroad programs, co-op programs and being a summer camp counselor. Just last night she told me she doesn't know how she would have had time for gymnastics.
Some of the things we discovered on college visits and in the process of orientation-
Your class schedule is really not 'yours.' DD had to have her class schedule approved by the athletic academic advisor, and then it was locked. She was not able to change a class without going through the athletic dept and getting approval. She was not able to register for her 1st choices because of conflicts with practice times.
Some majors are not allowed- some schools won't tell you they aren't allowed, you just won't ever be able to register for the classes you need because they won't fit in the times you need them to be- Any heavy science/lab classes, nursing, etc. Also, doing co-ops, internships and study abroad programs likely won't work. Although we did find that the school do vary regarding how much they will work with a student on major.
The 20 hour limit is only for practices. You also have 'volunteer' work- at the school DD planned to go to they have a monthly volunteer project they do as a team and in addition, the teams 'support' each other - which translates into requiring to be at other sporting events- volleyball games, etc and sometimes working those events- line judge for a game, etc. And then there is conditioning, re-hab, not so voluntary workouts. When we were observing a Friday practice, we heard the coach announce that their 20 hours were up and that anyone who wanted to leave could, no one even blinked and practice went at least another hour.
College gymnastics are much more team oriented - which can be a lot of fun- and also it means that if one team member breaks rules, the whole team may be participating in the consequence.
It was very hard for my DD to make and then announce the decision not to go do NCAA gymnastics. When I think about how close she came to going through with it and making herself miserable and giving up so many other important things just because she felt obligated I am very sad. She had only verbally committed just prior to her senior year. The day she told me she had made her decision, she said, "I've decided its time to stop making all my life decisions based on gymnastics." That is going to be true for every one of our gymnasts at some point.

 

[2G1B]

I'm always curious what the college coaches are looking for by "watching practices". The girls are on their best behavior so you probably aren't getting a true reflection of how they behave day-to-day or how fast/efficiently they work or how well they cheer for their teammates etc - you're more likely able to learn more about the gymnast from the club coach. Also, how the girls perform at practice may not reflect how well they do at competitions, which is what counts, after all...

I agree, but also know that they can't get a real picture often from the club coach. There was one girl at our old gym that the HC saw noooo wrong ever with. It was way over the top. So if that HC had been telling a college coach about this girl it would have been about what a great team leader she was, a hard worker, etc. Nothing about the truth that she was an awful teammate, pitched tantrums at competitions at times, etc. And on the flip side, a coach might have a bias against a gymnast. My DD was at a gym for a couple of seasons. Several of the coaches adored my DD. She isn't a natural gymnast, she is not top of the podium, but she is an extremely hard worker and these coaches appreciated that. But there were two coaches there who were horrible to her, they gravitated to the natural gymnasts and basically acted as though they did not want to waste their time on a kid like my DD, someone who would bever be a superstar. So if a coach has for whatever reason written a kid off, then a college coach is going to get a more negative picture than reality.

 

[bookworm]

2. I myself think college gymnastics is different than club gymnastics but to be honest I am not sure that difference is large enough to be felt.
1. I would love to hear from those here that have had athletes in college. .

In reverse order,

Point 1. I've had 2 athletes in college ...a D1 scholarshipped gymnast who competed all her years eligible and a D1 diver (who gave up her full ride when her multiple knee surgeries made gymnastics a thing of the past and like B&M's daughter said, loves diving more )

Point 2. I cannot tell you how HUGE the difference is between club and college gymnastics....trust me, the difference was felt every single day of the 4 years of college gymnastics...do not underestimate this difference. B&M's mom made great points in her post about their time and the time commitments "required" ....NCAA limits them to 20 hours of required practices/ meetings/ community service etc but there are numerous hours of "voluntary" work outs/conditioning/service/hosting recruits etc that if you don't volunteer for, you won't be on the team...so there's that. And lack of actual vacation time is real...my oldest was home 30 days in 4 years , including summers , with their "voluntary work outs"....so trust me, you will feel the difference between club and college every day they are there.

 

[Texastwister]

In reverse order,

Point 1. I've had 2 athletes in college ...a D1 scholarshipped gymnast who competed all her years eligible and a D1 diver (who gave up her full ride when her multiple knee surgeries made gymnastics a thing of the past and like B&M's daughter said, loves diving more )

Point 2. I cannot tell you how HUGE the difference is between club and college gymnastics....trust me, the difference was felt every single day of the 4 years of college gymnastics...do not underestimate this difference. B&M's mom made great points in her post about their time and the time commitments "required" ....NCAA limits them to 20 hours of required practices/ meetings/ community service etc but there are numerous hours of "voluntary" work outs/conditioning/service/hosting recruits etc that if you don't volunteer for, you won't be on the team...so there's that. And lack of actual vacation time is real...my oldest was home 30 days in 4 years , including summers , with their "voluntary work outs"....so trust me, you will feel the difference between club and college every day they are there.

I guess it all in the way you look at it. Is there a job you can work 30 hrs a week in college to pay for it? I just do t think so!! If you have a gymnastic scholarship that pays for everything how can you complain about the hours? Your average college job could not even come close to paying for it!!

 

[bookworm]

I guess it all in the way you look at it. Is there a job you can work 30 hrs a week in college to pay for it? I just do t think so!! If you have a gymnastic scholarship that pays for everything how can you complain about the hours? Your average college job could not even come close to paying for it!!

Because the hours are way more than 40 hours a week, and on call 24/7 for whatever the coach decides....there are laws that protect employees but nothing that protects a student athlete from the decisions of their college coach....and don't say the compliance department as there are moles in every one of them ....one gymnast on my daughter's team filed an anonymous complaint to compliance about being over the hours consistently and the coaches got wind of it and locked them in a room in the training facility and said " no one gets out until someone cops to the complaint or tells us who did it" ....4 hours in, one senior (who never competed and didn't make the complaint) said "ok I did it" and the coaches were livid because the actual person wasn't "caught" .....I doubt anyone's employer could get away with this...

So monetarily "everything is paid" but the athletes are the ultimate payers...so yeah, that's how I look at it as it wasn't worth it just because it was "free" because free has its own costs. All I can say is go into it with eyes wide open, which I thought we did but I just never thought coaches were capable of behaviors like this and then some, as we had never experienced it in club, and we had some tough Eastern European coaches.

 

[John]

@Natasha @bookworm thank you so much for sharing your stories.

 

[John]

I can't speak to having a collegiate athlete, but I can speak to having a college student and some of the things we learned in the process of visiting multiple college gymnastics programs and talking to coaches. My dd decided at the last minute to not do NCAA. She was all set to compete at D1 school, had registered for classes, completed orientation, had her room all planned with her roommate, etc. HER goal was always to be a college gymnast. She stuck with gymnastics all through High school even when she had no teammates her age and competed for 3 years as a solo L10 at her gym because she was intent on her dream of college gymnastics. She even paid her own way to one of the college summer camps. She took the lead in talking to coaches and handling all the recruiting. She was over the moon when she was first offered a spot on a team.
This summer she decided that she did not want to go to the school she had planned and ended up at a school which was a much better academic fit for her but does not have NCAA gymnastics- she is doing the college club gymnastics and having fun with it. She is now very happy, is pursuing a very rigorous major (which would likely not have worked with gymnastics schedule), is involved in several campus clubs and activities, she goes to all the SEC home football games AND gets enough sleep She is exploring things like study abroad programs, co-op programs and being a summer camp counselor. Just last night she told me she doesn't know how she would have had time for gymnastics.
Some of the things we discovered on college visits and in the process of orientation-
Your class schedule is really not 'yours.' DD had to have her class schedule approved by the athletic academic advisor, and then it was locked. She was not able to change a class without going through the athletic dept and getting approval. She was not able to register for her 1st choices because of conflicts with practice times.
Some majors are not allowed- some schools won't tell you they aren't allowed, you just won't ever be able to register for the classes you need because they won't fit in the times you need them to be- Any heavy science/lab classes, nursing, etc. Also, doing co-ops, internships and study abroad programs likely won't work. Although we did find that the school do vary regarding how much they will work with a student on major.
The 20 hour limit is only for practices. You also have 'volunteer' work- at the school DD planned to go to they have a monthly volunteer project they do as a team and in addition, the teams 'support' each other - which translates into requiring to be at other sporting events- volleyball games, etc and sometimes working those events- line judge for a game, etc. And then there is conditioning, re-hab, not so voluntary workouts. When we were observing a Friday practice, we heard the coach announce that their 20 hours were up and that anyone who wanted to leave could, no one even blinked and practice went at least another hour.
College gymnastics are much more team oriented - which can be a lot of fun- and also it means that if one team member breaks rules, the whole team may be participating in the consequence.
It was very hard for my DD to make and then announce the decision not to go do NCAA gymnastics. When I think about how close she came to going through with it and making herself miserable and giving up so many other important things just because she felt obligated I am very sad. She had only verbally committed just prior to her senior year. The day she told me she had made her decision, she said, "I've decided its time to stop making all my life decisions based on gymnastics." That is going to be true for every one of our gymnasts at some point.

@Natasha thank you for sharing your story!!!

In reverse order,

Point 1. I've had 2 athletes in college ...a D1 scholarshipped gymnast who competed all her years eligible and a D1 diver (who gave up her full ride when her multiple knee surgeries made gymnastics a thing of the past and like B&M's daughter said, loves diving more )

Point 2. I cannot tell you how HUGE the difference is between club and college gymnastics....trust me, the difference was felt every single day of the 4 years of college gymnastics...do not underestimate this difference. B&M's mom made great points in her post about their time and the time commitments "required" ....NCAA limits them to 20 hours of required practices/ meetings/ community service etc but there are numerous hours of "voluntary" work outs/conditioning/service/hosting recruits etc that if you don't volunteer for, you won't be on the team...so there's that. And lack of actual vacation time is real...my oldest was home 30 days in 4 years , including summers , with their "voluntary work outs"....so trust me, you will feel the difference between club and college every day they are there.

@bookworm Reading your story I wanted to make it clear that my original statement's message was more in line with your quote. College gymnastics is not different than club in that things don't become rosey in college. I support my DD and her chosen sport because she loves it and to do otherwise would cause harm. I do my best to steer her towards the good in things and attempt to help learn from the bad. Sometimes gymnastics makes it hard to find those good things outside the life lessons it teaches.

 

[QueenBee]

I guess it all in the way you look at it. Is there a job you can work 30 hrs a week in college to pay for it? I just do t think so!! If you have a gymnastic scholarship that pays for everything how can you complain about the hours? Your average college job could not even come close to paying for it!!

Are there very many spots at colleges for students whose parents have to pay literally $150k or over (easily over for most multi year Level 10s) in training and competing fees in order to qualify for said 'free' spots at college where you will still WORK 40+ hours a week to maintain your 'free' scholarship?

I think it is important to remember that almost every gym family could pay (in full) for college with the money spent on gym tuition, competition fees, equipment (leos, warmups, pre-wrap, tape, grips, choreography, etc, etc.), travel expenses, medical costs over the time it takes for a child to train to become a recruitable Level 10 gymnast. By the time my daughter is ready to graduate high school, she will have spent 12 years of her life in gymnastics (and she is always reminded how she started gym 'late', lol). 6 of those years as a Level 9 or 10. At Level 9/10, it is easy to spend over $20k a year on gymnastics. So, there is $120k just for the last 6 years of this sport on *my* dime. Not to mention the $5 - $15k it can cost per year (6 years worth) to get to Level 9/10.

Those full ride scholarships aren't free. Each gymnastics family paid for those scholarships in full before the student-athlete every arrives on campus. Gymnasts should do gymnastics because they love gymnastics, not because they might get a Div 1 scholarship at the end of a very long road. The ROI on those scholarships stinks even before the students arrive on the college campus, having a full time job (as an athlete) while attending college just makes the ROI even worse.

 

[bookworm]

@bookworm Reading your story I wanted to make it clear that my original statement's message was more in line with your quote. College gymnastics is not different than club in that things don't become rosey in college. I support my DD and her chosen sport because she loves it and to do otherwise would cause harm. I do my best to steer her towards the good in things and attempt to help learn from the bad. Sometimes gymnastics makes it hard to find those good things outside the life lessons it teaches.

John, thanks for clarifying... I thought you meant that it WOULD be all rosy once they got away from their club coaches and into NCAA.....our club coaches, especially our last ones , were kind, caring and effective as coaches, so it can be done. Even the Eastern European ones we had before were among my daughter's favorite coaches and there was no malice in their actions either.... so although we had heard all the "rah rah we're a team and it's so much better than JO" , count me among the disbelievers of that premise.

Don't get me wrong, my daughter loved competing for her university, but even she will tell you that the experience with her coaches in NCAA was among the worst. There probably (statistically) are some decent coaches out there, we just didn't experience it at her school.

 

[Texastwister]

Are there very many spots at colleges for students whose parents have to pay literally $150k or over (easily over for most multi year Level 10s) in training and competing fees in order to qualify for said 'free' spots at college where you will still WORK 40+ hours a week to maintain your 'free' scholarship?

I think it is important to remember that almost every gym family could pay (in full) for college with the money spent on gym tuition, competition fees, equipment (leos, warmups, pre-wrap, tape, grips, choreography, etc, etc.), travel expenses, medical costs over the time it takes for a child to train to become a recruitable Level 10 gymnast. By the time my daughter is ready to graduate high school, she will have spent 12 years of her life in gymnastics (and she is always reminded how she started gym 'late', lol). 6 of those years as a Level 9 or 10. At Level 9/10, it is easy to spend over $20k a year on gymnastics. So, there is $120k just for the last 6 years of this sport on *my* dime. Not to mention the $5 - $15k it can cost per year (6 years worth) to get to Level 9/10.

Those full ride scholarships aren't free. Each gymnastics family paid for those scholarships in full before the student-athlete every arrives on campus. Gymnasts should do gymnastics because they love gymnastics, not because they might get a Div 1 scholarship at the end of a very long road. The ROI on those scholarships stinks even before the students arrive on the college campus, having a full time job (as an athlete) while attending college just makes the ROI even worse.[/QUOTE
Again it’s how you look at it! Did you do all that just for a scholarship? It’s not owed to an athlete and the families. If it’s miserable, why do it? And trust me there are many sport just as and even more expensive then gymnastic. My kids do sports because they want to and if it opens doors for them, that’s a cherry on top!!!

 

[tomtnt]

Looks like some more 2022 gymnasts have verbaled. Two MG elite girls to UCLA. This may get the ball rolling.

 

[kitkat]

It sounds like your dd had a really sad and not so great experience. Did she stay the whole 4 years or did you pull her out early because it was so horrific?

I hope that every gym has their own experiences and that my dd wil be exactly what she is looking for. We have friends at my dd university now and she is loving every minute of it.

Because the hours are way more than 40 hours a week, and on call 24/7 for whatever the coach decides....there are laws that protect employees but nothing that protects a student athlete from the decisions of their college coach....and don't say the compliance department as there are moles in every one of them ....one gymnast on my daughter's team filed an anonymous complaint to compliance about being over the hours consistently and the coaches got wind of it and locked them in a room in the training facility and said " no one gets out until someone cops to the complaint or tells us who did it" ....4 hours in, one senior (who never competed and didn't make the complaint) said "ok I did it" and the coaches were livid because the actual person wasn't "caught" .....I doubt anyone's employer could get away with this...

So monetarily "everything is paid" but the athletes are the ultimate payers...so yeah, that's how I look at it as it wasn't worth it just because it was "free" because free has its own costs. All I can say is go into it with eyes wide open, which I thought we did but I just never thought coaches were capable of behaviors like this and then some, as we had never experienced it in club, and we had some tough Eastern European coaches.

 

[gasrgoose]

That's definitely not going to work. We need rules to protect these kids FROM their coaches and their parents.

This is such an arrogant statement. You believe you know best how these coaches, gymnasts and parents should handle their recruiting or you somehow care more about the well being of the gymnasts??? No one has as much to lose or gain in the process as the gymnasts, parents and coaches.

 

[gasrgoose]

I'm always curious what the college coaches are looking for by "watching practices". The girls are on their best behavior so you probably aren't getting a true reflection of how they behave day-to-day or how fast/efficiently they work or how well they cheer for their teammates etc - you're more likely able to learn more about the gymnast from the club coach. Also, how the girls perform at practice may not reflect how well they do at competitions, which is what counts, after all...

They are watching how they interact with their coaches and team mates. They are watching how they react when they fall or miss a skill. They are watching to see how condition. They are watching to see if they are training upgrades or have they peaked skill wise. They are talking with the club coaches in depth while watching the gymnast. It's also a way to show the gymnast(s) they are seriously interested. Also keep in mind coaches have vast experience watching practices and then determining how that will translate into college gymnastics. They get some right and they miss some but they learn from those experiences. It's not a hobby to the college coach it is their livelihood and they are professionals. If it wasn't necessary or beneficial they would not do it.

 

[reluctant]

This is such an arrogant statement. You believe you know best how these coaches, gymnasts and parents should handle their recruiting or you somehow care more about the well being of the gymnasts??? No one has as much to lose or gain in the process as the gymnasts, parents and coaches.

Why is is arrogant to say that recruiting rules should protect gymnasts from coaches and parents who may not have their best wishes in mind? You may disagree with it, but I think arrogant is an odd word choice.

 

[gasrgoose]

Why is is arrogant to say that recruiting rules should protect gymnasts from coaches and parents who may not have their best wishes in mind? You may disagree with it, but I think arrogant is an odd word choice.

arrogant - having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

It seems you believe your ability to evaluate the welfare of the gymnasts exceeds that of the gymnasts, parents and coaches. And you are correct I disagree with you. I personally know coaches, parents and gymnasts who have been on all sides of "early committing" and none of them disregarded the welfare of the gymnast.

 

[reluctant]

arrogant - having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

It seems you believe your ability to evaluate the welfare of the gymnasts exceeds that of the gymnasts, parents and coaches. And you are correct I disagree with you. I personally know coaches, parents and gymnasts who have been on all sides of "early committing" and none of them disregarded the welfare of the gymnast.

So there shouldn't be recruiting rules to protect the gymnasts? There's never been a coach or a parent who made a choice that was in their own interest rather than that of a child? Come on.

 

[gasrgoose]

So there shouldn't be recruiting rules to protect the gymnasts? There's never been a coach or a parent who made a choice that was in their own interest rather than that of a child? Come on.

I believe the current recruiting rules will do more harm by limiting contact. I don't believe the previous rules were a problem. Of course there have been examples of people making poor decisions and even people making a decisions that were harmful. But rules won't/can't fix bad intentions or people who disregard the well being of others.

As much as this has been discussed on here I have yet to see one example where early recruiting was responsible for the misfortune of a gymnast. As I've stated before college is tough by itself, it's tougher for an athlete. Sometimes things don't work out at the first college someone attends. But there is not a higher percentage of problems/failures/dropouts/disappointment among early gymnastics recruits than there is among regular college students.

 

[John]

Recruiting rules should be just that, rules to level the playing field for all parties. There shouldn't be a thing called early commitment. The rules should establish an even ground for all participants, that includes the athletes and the schools. No one but a fortune teller can see the future, recruitment should start when a potential STUDENT is age appropriate and is mature enough to process college and college athletics. Stopping early recruitment would not limit the best athletes from getting offered the best positions. I think it would do the opposite, it would force schools to come aggressively after the desired athlete. Bringing an offer that is competitive and not one that wows a 12-year-old and a parent that has not yet had the opportunity to educate themselves.