Parents Horror stories about gyms and collections.

[munchkin3]

So its that time of year and so many people are moving around from gym to gym...I've heard so many horror stories of gym owners making parents lives miserable once they leave.
Anyone have any good stories about how they ended the dispute and has anyone actually been taken to collections for future months during the season?

 

[Ms.Pak-Man]

Collections for months after you left? After the cancelation notice period?

 

[munchkin3]

Yes.....I'm talking about them trying to collect a full season. Even after notice.

 

[duyetanh]

That is CRAZY!

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

Our gym charges for tuition on a monthly basis, so if a gymnast quits they are only responsible to pay for the month that they last attended, so there is no collection to be made. Do most gyms charge per year??? I couldn't imagine having to pay in one big lump sum! It's hard enough trying to come up with the funds to pay for her tuition each month!

 

[Ms.Pak-Man]

How are your fees structured? Is this to the gym, booster, etc.? I would first nicely ask for them to provide you with the documentation you signed that agreed to the policy that they are trying to enforce. Without a signed contract, they will have great difficulty in a civil case, so you can likely ignore it until/if you are given formal notice of a lawsuit. Then you'd have to look at what you owe vs legal fees, etc. If they don't have a signed contract/agreement, then you could risk representing yourself in court, only if you know they have no legal basis for the claim, in that you are sure you never agreed to what they are referring to, it's not posted in the gym, on their website, in a handbook (did you sign a handbook agreement?), etc. Otherwise I would either get a lawyer, or pay them. You risk having to pay their legal fees if you went to court and lost.

*my legal advice is based only on my college law classes, being a lawyer's daughter, and serving on a civil case jury--take with a grain of salt*

 

[raenndrops]

Our gym charges for tuition on a monthly basis, so if a gymnast quits they are only responsible to pay for the month that they last attended, so there is no collection to be made. Do most gyms charge per year??? I couldn't imagine having to pay in one big lump sum! It's hard enough trying to come up with the funds to pay for her tuition each month!

Some gyms (definitely NOT mine) take the fees for the whole year and divide them evenly into 3, 4, 6, 9, or 12 payments. The 12 payments may make people THINK they are just monthly payments (that cover JUST that month), but they are actually balancing out the fees over the whole year, so depending on when the gymnast leaves, they may still technically be behind the money that would have been due.

 

[MuggleMom]

I think our gym just requires a certain amount of notice so you may have to either pay for or continue to go for a month before you are free of your financial obligation. We had alot of people leave and in knew one of them and she just paid out the month but left cause she was unhappy. Others finished out their time before leaving. I have read horror stories on hear where there is like a 3 month penalty for leaving so you have to pay or they continue to charge you etc but I believe that is written in the team contract/handbook so it could be enforceable I am not sure.

 

[John]

Our gym takes monthly payments. You can leave the gym at any time with no penalties. Not the Parent Organization is another animal. We have to sign a contract that we will pay the x amount no matter what. So if DD leaves this gym I still owe the Parent fees for the entire year. Quitting during a season, of ANYTHING, is not an option in my family. You commit to a season you finish the season. You can make a decision to stay or leave after you complete your commitment. Just life lessons little ones need to understand.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Yes.....I'm talking about them trying to collect a full season. Even after notice.

I've heard of this. Gymnasts have to sign a contract for a year, and they still collect the payments if they quit or are injured until the year is up. Thank goodness my dd's gym is month-to-month. They only require a month's notice to stop payments.

 

[Gymmommy71]

The contracts at a couple gyms in my area state that you owe for the entire year if you leave. I know of misc. families have left those gyms for various reasons and I've heard rumors about them getting legal paperwork suing for unpaid tuition (not sure if any ever went to court though). One family left one of these gyms because they felt the coach of their one daughter was incompetent to the point where things were unsafe (the kid had an injury history to back it up, including a final straw incident that put the kid out for the season). I heard they got sued by the gym (they had multiple kids on team and pulled them all), and we're going to fight it w/ the unsafe argument, but I never heard what happened.

OP - the person who left and is being collected on (not sure if it's you or someone else), what was the reason they left this gym? Was there a contract involved? I know in my state (and think it's the same for others) a business has to take you to small claims court to get a judgement for things like tuition - if the family had a good reason for leaving, they should just go to the hearing and argue why they left. Usually the judges/magistrates decide what makes the most sense for the dispute.

I have heard of a couple people who left an All Star cheer place in my area mid season who went to court and lost though - they were forced to pay for a year's worth of fees when their kid didn't attend. I'm not sure what the full story was, but it does show that sometimes the judges will side w/ the business.

 

[mommyof1]

Judges decide cases by applying the law to the facts of the case, not on the basis of whose story is more appealing.

 

[munchkin3]

In my area this is common. At my gym, it's a notice period of a month or so and that's it. I was curious though on how these gyms really successfully get a family to pay perhaps thousands of dollars.....I'm not talking about a gym who is investing training for L10 or elites.....I'm talking standard L6 or 7 whose kids are unhappy.
Isn't it more like scare tactics? Or can a gym really sue a family?

 

[John]

I believe it's no different from joining golds gym. If you sign a contract that says you owe a year and font pay you can be taken to court.

 

[raenndrops]

In my area this is common. At my gym, it's a notice period of a month or so and that's it. I was curious though on how these gyms really successfully get a family to pay perhaps thousands of dollars.....I'm not talking about a gym who is investing training for L10 or elites.....I'm talking standard L6 or 7 whose kids are unhappy.
Isn't it more like scare tactics? Or can a gym really sue a family?

It is mostly scare tactics. They CAN sue, but most don't. Even if there is a contract. If you give a 1 month notice and cancel any autopay with your bank, the only way for them to get the money would be to sue. That takes time and effort. And often, as long as you have given the notice (and DEFINITELY explain if you have a good reason), it doesn't make sense to have to keep paying. They have to show the judge that you paying is the only way to make them "whole" in the eyes of the law. Some judges will go through an itemized list of what they are charging you for and decide piece by piece if you have to pay it. For Example: If part of what they are billing for is coaches fees for meets you didn't attend and they knew you weren't going to attend and they didn't even register you for, then that isn't right. If they are billing you for meet fees for meets they never registered you for, also not right. If they are billing for an end - of - year banquet that you are no longer allowed to attend because you left, nope.
Judges are smart. Somebody mentioned an All-Star Cheer one where the owner won… In cheer, the team is dependent on each person being there to fulfill their position. Gymnastics is an individual sport. OG not being at a meet does not affect the ability of the rest of the team to preform their best. BUT in Cheer, if you are missing a flyer and don't have anyone good enough to fill in, you have to rework the ENTIRE choreography, so everyone is affected.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

At our gym, for team athletes, the monthly tuition is separate from the team competitive expenses. If you choose to leave after starting (and signing the agreement, which is mandatory or your athlete will not practice) a season, you will NOT be liable for any further monthly tuition but you WILL be liable for the team competitive expenses. That sum is totalled up based on number of athletes on the team and many meet entries etc are paid far in advance. It is spelled out in the parent contract.
ETA: most of the time, the gym will not come after you for the entire year (if you leave when some of those payments have already been made but the actual meet season has not begun yet) but you will not get refunded for payments already made either. But, it does clearly state in the contract that you are responsible for the competition fees in full.

 

[LindyHopper]

This is the exact situation at Short Stack's gym as well. All coaches fees and meet fees are estimated for the full season, and then broken into 3 monthly payments that are all paid before meet season even starts. If one leaves before the season is over, one should not expect a refund. Tuition is paid monthly, and simply asks for one month notice before it stops being charged.

At our gym, for team athletes, the monthly tuition is separate from the team competitive expenses. If you choose to leave after starting (and signing the agreement, which is mandatory or your athlete will not practice) a season, you will NOT be liable for any further monthly tuition but you WILL be liable for the team competitive expenses. That sum is totalled up based on number of athletes on the team and many meet entries etc are paid far in advance. It is spelled out in the parent contract.
ETA: most of the time, the gym will not come after you for the entire year (if you leave when some of those payments have already been made but the actual meet season has not begun yet) but you will not get refunded for payments already made either. But, it does clearly state in the contract that you are responsible for the competition fees in full.

 

[Madden3]

I just want to address the comparison to chain workout gyms. There is a long history of such gyms overstepping when it comes to contracts and member payments/penalties after cancellation of membership. Here is one recent article on this for example that also touches on how, even when a contract is in place, it may not be legally enforceable. http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/family_fitness_told_to_cease_a.html

Quote from article: "When consumers enter into contracts, the law requires that they be treated honestly and fairly," Attorney General Bill Schuette said in the press release. "Using the threat of enormous penalties as a way of keeping customers locked into membership agreements misleads consumers about their legal rights."

 

[Aussie_coach]

There is a big difference between team and red classes. If you sign up for rec classes and then you quit mid year, it's often not a big deal because anotherchild can step in and take their place, many gymnasts have a waiting list so even with a week's notice they can fill that spot.

But Team is often worked out to just break even (many teams run at a loss). Classses may be smaller, coaches tend to be more expensive, tuition per hour is much lower as kids go so many hours etc. If a child quits mid season the spot
Ol icy. can generally not be filled until the season has ended. The team can then go from just breaking even to running at a loss, if a few kids disappear it can be quite financially disastrous for a team. This is why many ask for a full year of commitment. This is not the case at my gym, our Rex program is large enough to cover the team in they run at a loss but not all gyms have that luxury.

I also know of gyms who have the policy that you only need a months notice at most levels but you need a years notice if you quit during level 10. Their justification is that to have kids train and compete at level 10 or above requires a long and arduous commitment on the part of a gym. Again the very best coaches are working with the smallest classes, with kids paying the lowest per hour rate. My guess is these gyms have felt burned before putting a lot into these kids, only to have them change gyms and perhaps win nationals for someone else.

Here in Australia we have a transfer policy. All gymnasts are registered on the national database. If a gymnast leaves and moves to another gym then the new gym needs to put in a transfer request and the old gym has one month to either accept of deny the tranfser. In the mean time the gymnast can start training at their new gym, but can't compete for them until the transfer goes through. If the transfer is denied their have to stop training at the new gym until it is sorted. The transfer can only be denied for two reasons. Either because fees are still,owed at the previous gym, or if the gymnast is still training at the previous gym (in which case they have to get a dual membership). It stops people from building up an unpaid debt at one gym and then just skipping out and going to another.

 

[raenndrops]

This is the exact situation at Short Stack's gym as well. All coaches fees and meet fees are estimated for the full season, and then broken into 3 monthly payments that are all paid before meet season even starts. If one leaves before the season is over, one should not expect a refund. Tuition is paid monthly, and simply asks for one month notice before it stops being charged.

But there is a difference between expecting a refund and being sued for money for the rest of the season after leaving.
We, luckily, don't have huge meet fees, but they are billed as a lump sum in September. They like for us to pay for at least November and December meets in September and the rest of the season in January, but we are allowed to pay by the meet. We are also lucky in that we can scratch a meet as late as 2 weeks in advance and not have to pay. Then, the HC adjusts your bill to account for it.

If there is something that they HAVE to have money for in advance (competition leotards and warm ups), then they won't order them unless you have paid. Same for any meets after our regular season Championship (Regionals and Y Nationals) - they get paid for in March and you dont get a refund no matter what.