Parents xcel vs usaigc - what's the difference?

[Hannahco]

Some gyms have one, and some have the other, but are they basically equivalent? Is the judging similar? One thing I notice is that there seem to be more low scores in igc competitions that there are in xcel. I've looked at the scores for a few competitions, and I noticed that all the teams had half or more of their competitors with all around scores under 36. Does that mean that they judge harder in igc vs xcel or does it mean the training isn't as good? Are the rules more stringent in igc? Is there a reason to chose one over the other for a who wants to compete but not spend as many hours in the gym as JO requires?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Well, the right girl just saw this post! Puma Jr just went from JO L5 to USAIGC Bronze four weeks ago, and she had done Xcel Gold between L3 and L4. So feel free to ask any questions and hopefully I can help you out! In general, they do score the same (some deductions are slightly different I'm sure, but taken appropriately) but the talent pool is not nearly as deep as it is in JO, and even in Xcel depending on the area. I've already run into two judges at IGC meets that I know from JO, so at least in this area the judges overlap. I'm still new to all this, so no expert yet, but I will share my experience so far if you like. Good luck!

 

[Hannahco]

Thanks, Mrs. Puma. Can you tell me why you chose IGC over Xcel this time, if your daughter had previously done Xcel Gold?

 

[gymbeam]

IGC:
sets practice hours limits
coach decides what level to place to in
don't have to compete every level
has mandatory move up regulations
can't compete USAG and IGC in same season
can compete two different levels at the same time as event specialist

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Thanks, Mrs. Puma. Can you tell me why you chose IGC over Xcel this time, if your daughter had previously done Xcel Gold?

It's a long story..lol. Basically Gym I stopped doing compulsories and did Xcel instead until they could score out of L4/5 ( @cadybearsmommy might have more info on this) so she did L3 and XG there. Then we switched and she did L4 and L5 at Gym II. She wanted to step down a little (I can pm you details on both gym changes if you want-everyone here is probably sick of the story! Lol) so we moved to Gym III. Gym II did not have USAIGC, but did have Xcel, which they use in the "intended" way (TONS of threads on the many ways Xcel is used...it can be very competitive or very recreational depending on the area and gym). We did not choose to do Xcel at Gym II for a variety of reasons, but mainly because they still compete against some very competative gyms who sweep the podium and in our case, the whole point was for her to enjoy gymannastics and feel successful. One gym in particular around here fields very small JO teams and is super selective about who makes it. The rest are funneled to Xcel, and those amazing athletes would be very strong JO kids at most other gyms around here. @Deleted member 18037 and @MILgymFAM also have experience with both Xcel and IGC.

 

[Hannahco]

Ah, that makes sense, Mrs Puma. What do you notice about how they train, IGC vs Xcel. Is the training similar? I would like to read up more on the way Xcel is used, if you can direct me to those threads. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. It does seem like things vary widely from gym to gym.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

can compete two different levels at the same time as event specialist

Yes, this is one very cool thing. They can be "event specialists" on the next level in up to two events. Bars around here seem especially weak, which happens to be Puma Jr's strongest, so perhaps in the fall she could do Silver bars on top of doing all four at Bronze. (From what I've seen, she could hold her own in Silver bars right now, but since we switched mid season that wasn't top priority)

 

[Hannahco]

Competing different levels in different events seems like it would be fun and motivating, as every kid has their strengths.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

IGC:
sets practice hours limits
coach decides what level to place to in
don't have to compete every level
has mandatory move up regulations
can't compete USAG and IGC in same season
can compete two different levels at the same time as event specialist

Actually they recommend practice limits, no one tracks it.

Coach can decide Level, until you hit they mandatory move up score.

Xcel levels are not equivalent to IGC levels

IGC Copper is like Level 1 & 2
IGC Bronze like Level 3 & 4, a bit of 5
IGC Silver like Level 5-7

You pay an additional membership fee.

Xcel and JO are both USAG, so one membership per year.

They break out some of the levels, so the kids hopefully competing somewhat equivalent. So for Copper there is a Copper 1 for first year Copper. And Copper level 2 for second year Coppers.

Bronze the separate out the higher scorers to Bronze Diamond, I think 36 is line (but it's been awhile)

You must attend 3 meets to go to States, but you only need one qualifying score.

The age ranges at meets are constant, so if you are the only kid in the 7-9 range you take first.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Competing different levels in different events seems like it would be fun and motivating, as every kid has their strengths.

I believe that is only at certain meets. And you of course pay for the privilege, per event.
When we did IGC, we usually did 4-5 meets a season. There was only one meet they could compete up a level.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

IGC Copper is like Level 1 & 2
IGC Bronze like Level 3 & 4, a bit of 5
IGC Silver like Level 5-7

Maybe this is slightly area dependent? (Like many things in this crazy sport lol). From what I've seen so far, Copper I is very basic and Copper II is almost exactly L3. Bronze floor is basically L4, but bars and beam could be L4/5 with a few L6 skills (cast flyway, BT/FT beam dismounts) and vault can be either FHS or RO. Silver floor seems L5, but again bars and beam seem more L6 even L7. Gold looked L7/8. BT on beam, Giants, "fancier" bar dismounts, Tsuks and twisting on floor. I have not seen Platinum or Premier yet, but I believe they are L8/9ish and L9/10ish, respectively. It doesn't appear too many kids do those levels. ETA: to OP, as stated above, the Xcel levels are very different and max out at lower skills. I believe XD is L8ish? @raenndrops is the Xcel master and would have more info on that!

 

[cadybearsmommy]

It's a long story..lol. Basically Gym I stopped doing compulsories and did Xcel instead until they could score out of L4/5 ( @cadybearsmommy might have more info on this) so she did L3 and XG there. Then we switched and she did L4 and L5 at Gym II. She wanted to step down a little (I can pm you details on both gym changes if you want-everyone here is probably sick of the story! Lol) so we moved to Gym III. Gym II did not have USAIGC, but did have Xcel, which they use in the "intended" way (TONS of threads on the many ways Xcel is used...it can be very competitive or very recreational depending on the area and gym). We did not choose to do Xcel at Gym II for a variety of reasons, but mainly because they still compete against some very competative gyms who sweep the podium and in our case, the whole point was for her to enjoy gymannastics and feel successful. One gym in particular around here fields very small JO teams and is super selective about who makes it. The rest are funneled to Xcel, and those amazing athletes would be very strong JO kids at most other gyms around here. @Deleted member 18037 and @MILgymFAM also have experience with both Xcel and IGC.

Xcel is used in a variety of ways. In some areas it's a lower hours, lower cost, less commitment option to do competitive gymnastics. We are in Region 8 and have been seeing a trend towards using the lower levels of Xcel as a path to optionals, an alternative to compulsories. Because of that reason it can make Xcel in the lower levels highly competitive as you see kids that are doing full compulsory training hours but competing Xcel. Our current gym uses Xcel as a route to optionals. However the girls in Xcel still do the lower Xcel hours. My dd transitioned from Xcel silver to level 6 this year. It's been a bit of a bumpy ride. I definitely think she was not as prepared as kids from other gyms that had been through compulsories. However she's held her own and she has time to catch up.

I can't speak to USAIGC as it's not available in our area but it sounds like a great option!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Maybe this is slightly area dependent? (Like many things in this crazy sport lol). From what I've seen so far, Copper I is very basic and Copper II is almost exactly L3. Bronze floor is basically L4, but bars and beam could be L4/5 with a few L6 skills (cast flyway, BT/FT beam dismounts) and vault can be either FHS or RO. Silver floor seems L5, but again bars and beam seem more L6 even L7. Gold looked L7/8. BT on beam, Giants, "fancier" bar dismounts, Tsuks and twisting on floor. I have not seen Platinum or Premier yet, but I believe they are L8/9ish and L9/10ish, respectively. It doesn't appear too many kids do those levels. ETA: to OP, as stated above, the Xcel levels are very different and max out at lower skills. I believe XD is L8ish? @raenndrops is the Xcel master and would have more info on that!

My daughter needed a connection on Beam in Silver which is L7. Our girls did BHS-BWO. And all the teams at our meets had the connection.

And at States there were girls doing Giants on Bars at Silver, our girls didn't but they were being done. Needless to say we didn't win bars.

We have Copper 2 girls who are not doing L3 skills. And in fact the reason they are not bronze is no BHS on floor.

None of our Bronze girls do BT/FT dismounts and most don't do flyaways.

Again the skill range is somewhat broad. Our gym levels the girls pretty appropriately.

I think you will see a broader difference in skills at States.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Crud timed out before I could edit.

Again, we have 2 seasons at our gym. For L6 and lower. Compulsory JO then IGC.

Our gym, Level 2 and some L3 do Copper
L4 and some L3 do Bronze.

L5, L6 and L7 did Silver. They L7 girls scoring way higher then the L5

Our 8 and 9s didn't do IGC, but stayed JO for the year. Previously they did Gold.

Again the skill range is somewhat broad. Our gym levels the girls pretty appropriately.

 

[Jenny]

Crud timed out before I could edit.

Again, we have 2 seasons at our gym. For L6 and lower. Compulsory JO then IGC.

Our gym, Level 2 and some L3 do Copper
L4 and some L3 do Bronze.

L5, L6 and L7 did Silver. They L7 girls scoring way higher then the L5

Our 8 and 9s didn't do IGC, but stayed JO for the year. Previously they did Gold.

Again the skill range is somewhat broad. Our gym levels the girls pretty appropriately.

oh I thought someone said above you can't compete JO and IGC the same season? Is there a way round that and how does that work with the recommended hours limits for IGC?

 

[Mrs. Puma]

there were girls doing Giants on Bars at Silver

Thanks for clearing that up! I thought I interpreted the rules that way, but I didn't see any Silvers doing them at the session I volunteered. Puma Jr said her Silvers can all do them but don't compete them so I thought maybe I had it wrong. That would be a cool option to be able to try Giants as a bar specialist in Silver without any pressure to score well since one would have Bronze AA to be solid at.

oh I thought someone said above you can't compete JO and IGC the same season? Is there a way round that and how does that work with the recommended hours limits for IGC?

You are correct, but often gyms that do that do early States for JO, thus technically ending their season. There are lots of posts about this too. And no one checks the hours, but the rules do state that stretching and conditioning doesn't count, so if asked for some reason, I bet that's how they'd justify that.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

oh I thought someone said above you can't compete JO and IGC the same season? Is there a way round that and how does that work with the recommended hours limits for IGC?

It's not getting a round anything.

It works just fine when you are a low hour gym and go to early states for JO. That is why our upper levels don't do IGC. Because their states are later.

My daughter did 5 hrs as a 2, 7.5 as a 3, and 9 hours as a4/5/6. Now topping off as 11/12 hrs for however high she gets to.

 

[Jenny]

I think that is very unfair and not in the spirit of the idea of a lower hours track. Shame on them for doubling up to bag medals and lying about hours.

 

[Jenny]

I think that is very unfair and not in the spirit of the idea of a lower hours track. Shame on them for doubling up to bag medals and lying about hours.

replying to Mrs Puma

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I think that is very unfair and not in the spirit of the idea of a lower hours track. Shame on them for doubling up to bag medals and lying about hours.

replying to Mrs Puma

Again, understand you were replying to Mrs Puma.

Our girls are appropriately leveled and lower hours. Our coaches philosophy is gymnastics is gymnastics. The BHS doesn't change because its IGC, JO or Xcel.

The reality is much of gymnastics is not equal.

There are gyms that do way different hours across the board JO, Xcel and IGC
Xcel is not always used the way it was intended.
And more hours don't always equate to better training.

We go round and round here on this all the time.

When my low hour kid goes to a meet with higher hour gyms it costs her a couple of places.
When our kids go against kids who are not appropriately leveled it costs them a couple of places or more.