WAG Recreating WAG

[RTT2]

Basically, what would the sport look like to you if it could be recreated? What practices would you eliminate, what would you promote? What would the ideal WAG environment look like?

 

[kiwi2406]

Eliminate beam lol

 

[MILgymFAM]

I would eliminate age groups. Seriously. I would replace them with competitions being split into two or four groups. Older/younger at the halfway age mark of a comp (or a set age) if there are a high number of competitors and always into first year/repeats. I would eliminate participation awards at everything except the AA at state meets and above- those girls earned their spots there and the AA medal is a souvenir of that- but I wouldn’t call them all up, I would line up everyone after fifth place to get their medal and salute at once. All other meets and all event medals would go to 5th place only (top 3 only for groups under 10). I would get rid of up to level deductions and spell out exactly what is wanted at each level and score the execution only. I would switch L10 to FIG scoring, maybe L9 too.

 

[kiwi2406]

I would eliminate age groups. Seriously. I would replace them with competitions being split into two or four groups. Older/younger at the halfway age mark of a comp (or a set age)

We have that age group system here, our competitions are split into two divisions; 'overs' and 'unders'. For STEP 1, the age for unders is 5-7, and overs are 8+, STEP 2 is 6-8 for unders and 9+ for overs, STEP 3 is 7-9 for unders, 10+ for overs and you get the picture. Makes awards so much quicker because you don't have to sit through a billion age groups, only 2.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

I would eliminate age groups. Seriously. I would replace them with competitions being split into two or four groups.

Our age groups are build into the levels. Senior G and junior G compete the same skills, but senior G is considered a division lower than junior G.
Oh, we also have just top 3/4 all around medals. Events don't get anything, except for at event finals, which is again top 3/4

 

[gymmomtotwo]

I would eliminate awards ceremonies except for state and above.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Top 5 get awards except at regionals and nationals. the end...

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Competitive groups by hours practiced.

A besides a minimum score, a mandatory move up score, as in you need to be done with this level.

For meets, divisions that include years at level or previous scores.

Limits on hours practiced.

Limit awards to top 20-25%

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

Allow kids to compete different events in different levels, like T and T

 

[MILgymFAM]

Competitive groups by hours practiced.

A besides a minimum score, a mandatory move up score, as in you need to be done with this level.

For meets, divisions that include years at level or previous scores.

Limits on hours practiced.

Limit awards to top 20-25%

Allow kids to compete different events in different levels, like T and T

So basically make it more like usaigc. I actually agree, mostly. Limiting hours is a pretty worthless proposition in my opinion. They do that in IGC now and I know it’s a rule that both impossible to enforce and widely flouted.

 

[NY Dad]

Limiting hours is a pretty worthless proposition in my opinion. They do that in IGC now and I know it’s a rule that both impossible to enforce and widely flouted.

Based on what I’ve been told while casually chatting with parents from other teams at IGC meets, this is very true. And I’m talking about Copper 1 (approx JO2).

 

[raenndrops]

This is actually recreating JO ...
1. Minimum ages: L1 = 4; L2 = 5; L3 = 6; L4 = 7; L5 = 8; L6 = 8; L7 = 9; L8 = 10; L9 = 11; L10 = 12
2. Minimum Scores and Maximum Scores to move up - have to move up the next season at the latest if you score 36.0 2x in a season.
3. Separate divisions for repeaters and first year at a level gymnasts.
4. Each division is divided into 2-3 age groups. Top 1/3 place on events and at least 50% +1 AA. Participation award is part of the Meet SWAG.
5. No hour Limits (because we know that wont work) ... but designated "Low Hour" / "High Hour" Designations at State Meets. The designation would vary by level, of course, but Optionals going 14 hours or less would be designated Low Hours and 15 hours or more would be designated High Hours. This could be adjusted slightly on a state by state basis, as needed.
6. No deduction for sports bra showing as long as it matches the dominant color of the leotard or the color of the neckline.
7. No deduction for bar shorts matching the leotard.
8. No deduction for extra (small) STUD earrings.
9. No deduction for the coach stepping onto the floor in L6+ ... just in case (in case you don't know, it is the same as a spot, even if the coach is 3 feet away so the gymnast feels comfortable)
10. Because of mandatory move ups, encourage coaches to spot in early season meets rather than have a girl scratch an event over 1 skill ... if she isn't close enough even with a spot, encourage them to just have her omit the skill.
11. Take a cue from USAIGC and allow a gymnast to IES up to 2 events at the next level, as long as they are age eligible.

Recreating Xcel:
1. Add Titanium above Diamond. 4 A's and 4 B's required. Requirements similar to L8.
2. Minimum ages: Bronze = 5; Silver = 6; Gold = 7; Platinum = 8; Diamond = 10; Titanium = 12
3. Entry from JO:
Bronze = L1, L2; Silver = L1, L2, L3; Gold = L3, L4; Platinum = L5, L6; Diamond = L6, L7, L8; Titanium = L7, L8, L9, L10
3. Minimum Scores and Maximum Scores to move up - have to move up the next season at the latest if you score 36.0 2x in a season.
4. Separate divisions for repeaters and first year at a level gymnasts.
5. Each division is divided into 2-3 age groups. Top 1/3 place on events and at least 50% +1 AA. Participation award is part of the Meet SWAG.
6. No hour Limits (because we know that wont work) ... but designated "Low Hour" / "High Hour" Designations at State Meets. The designation would vary by level, of course, but Xcel teams that are going less than 10 hours (For Platinum, Diamond, and Titanium) would be designated Low Hours and 10 hours or more would be designated High Hours. This could be adjusted slightly on a state by state basis, as needed.
7. No deduction for sports bra showing as long as it matches the dominant color of the leotard or the color of the neckline.
8. No deduction for bar shorts matching the leotard.
9. No deduction for extra (small) STUD earrings.
10. Take a cue from USAIGC and allow a gymnast to IES up to 2 events at the next level, as long as they are age eligible.

At State, Ohio runs a "National" gym and an "American" gym for large teams and small teams, respectively. The same could be done for Low hours and High hours.

 

[Texasmomof3]

I am not a fan of the mandatory move up, especially at higher levels. There are many reasons why a girl could score a 36 twice at level 7 but not be ready for level 8. Maybe she cant flip a vault and doesn't have a turn/release on bars. She could have a beautiful layout but not be able to connect two saltos in a single pass.

So would that girl just not be allowed to compete the next year at all? That rule would push girls out of gym when they get stuck, and that isn't something I would want to encourage.

 

[rjb123]

Personally I think that mandatory move up scores in optionals are dangerous. Especially at a 36. I know plenty of girls who got a 36 in L9 this year once or twice who will be repeating. And they should. these upper optional levels are HARD and forcing someone to move up based on arbitrary scores is setting them up to fail or get hurt. Also, having "high" or "low" hour divisions in optionals is also not realistic. *Maybe* in compulsory levels, where there are so many more kids, but in optionals it is just not practical in many states- plus there are post season meets to consider. I think a lot of this sounds good to people who want a more recreational type of program, but that is what Xcel is all about- lower hours, less $$ but still a competitive program. Put these restrictions in place in that program to force gym to use it properly- that makes more sense. The reality is that you will never make it "fair" - but you will never make LIFE fair. Trying to micro manage this stuff is not practical and in the end doesn't do much good. Lets focus on the big issues and make sure that gyms are safe and free from abuse - not waste our time on hour limits and move up scores.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I think there should be mandatory move up scores, but I would set it at a 37. Everyone saying it is dangerous or will push girls out- why could they not simply train until ready without the pressure of competing or compete the next level with a lower start value? Just because those things aren’t common doesn’t mean they’re dangerous or harmful. In my opinion, of course. I think if you’re scoring 37+ then you really have nothing to gain from a level except medals, and I don’t think that’s necessarily the right focus, especially if you’re working toward a new level.

 

[John]

I get conflicted on move up scores. I like the idea but it also makes me wonder what the real purpose of gymnastics should be. If winning meets is the intended purpose then move up scores should exist, if the goal of gymnastics is to make it to level 10 and learn life lessons along the way it seems the move up score should not exist. I do think USAIGC has some traits of its program that USAG should adopt. I for one do not like compulsory gymnastics. Require skills in a routine but to make everyone have the same presentation and dance is not something I favor.

 

[raenndrops]

I think there should be mandatory move up scores, but I would set it at a 37. Everyone saying it is dangerous or will push girls out- why could they not simply train until ready without the pressure of competing or compete the next level with a lower start value? Just because those things aren’t common doesn’t mean they’re dangerous or harmful. In my opinion, of course. I think if you’re scoring 37+ then you really have nothing to gain from a level except medals, and I don’t think that’s necessarily the right focus, especially if you’re working toward a new level.

I agree. I could push it to a 37... but around here, I don't see 37s very often.
I am also of the ilk that thinks the gymnasts could either trian until ready or compete with a lower SV (YG has done that all year).

 

[raenndrops]

I am not a fan of the mandatory move up, especially at higher levels. There are many reasons why a girl could score a 36 twice at level 7 but not be ready for level 8. Maybe she cant flip a vault and doesn't have a turn/release on bars. She could have a beautiful layout but not be able to connect two saltos in a single pass.

So would that girl just not be allowed to compete the next year at all? That rule would push girls out of gym when they get stuck, and that isn't something I would want to encourage.

Level 8 does not HAVE to flip a vault. I know of gymnasts who have won L8 meets (not just at YMCA Meets) with a FHS vault.
If the gymnast can't do a FT-RO-BT before the end of her Level 7 season that she has gotten the (now) 37 2x, she has until next season to get it (or another pass) or she can start with a lower SV. She can work on the turn or release on bars too.

*If we were TRULY revamping it, then the coaches would be on board to allow girls to compete with lower SV if they Mandated up.*

We used to have Mandate scores... and crazy low ones at that (LEVELS adjusted to reflect CURRENT levels):
34.0 @ L4 with a minimum of 8.0 on each event in the same meet as the 34 2x during the season
33.0 @ L5 with a minimum of 7.75 on each event in the same meet as the 34 2x during the season ... and remember, that was to go to L7.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Mandatory move up equals mandatory increase in injury rate and retirement. The end. Not even an option .

 

[Flyaway]

Personally I think that mandatory move up scores in optionals are dangerous. Especially at a 36. I know plenty of girls who got a 36 in L9 this year once or twice who will be repeating. And they should. these upper optional levels are HARD and forcing someone to move up based on arbitrary scores is setting them up to fail or get hurt. Also, having "high" or "low" hour divisions in optionals is also not realistic. *Maybe* in compulsory levels, where there are so many more kids, but in optionals it is just not practical in many states- plus there are post season meets to consider. I think a lot of this sounds good to people who want a more recreational type of program, but that is what Xcel is all about- lower hours, less $$ but still a competitive program. Put these restrictions in place in that program to force gym to use it properly- that makes more sense. The reality is that you will never make it "fair" - but you will never make LIFE fair. Trying to micro manage this stuff is not practical and in the end doesn't do much good. Lets focus on the big issues and make sure that gyms are safe and free from abuse - not waste our time on hour limits and move up scores.

I agree. The difficulty about trying to micro-manage in this way is that what will work for a larger, dominant, populous state/region will not work for the smaller, more rural state/region. And vice versa.