WAG Recreating WAG

[Aussie_coach]

A lot of what you guys are suggesting we already have here in my state in Australia.

We have mandatory move up scores, it is only mandatory for compulsory levels, if the score is achieved at State championships. Once theynachieve the score they can move up right away, or can wait until January. They receive their level badge for the next level so they don't need to levels test, so in Essence they could skip the next level if they wanted with the mandatory move up score.

Optional also have this score, which allows you to move up and automatically receive your next level badge, but it is not mandatory to move up, due to safety reasons.

Many of our comps split divisions by hours, they have a limited hours division and a regular hour division.

Most of our comps also only split into 2 age groups. Apparatus awards are given for 1st-6th regardless of how big the division is. Usually either medals for 1st-6th, or medals for 1st-3rd and ribbons for 4th-6th. Even if there are 100 girls, they still only go to 6th, Ma y comps will go to 3rd only if there are less than 10 in a division. ALl around awards are usually trophies and given 1st-3rd, some comps will also give 4th-6th either a trophy, medal or pennant.

We don't have seperate divisions for 1stnyears versus repeaters but some comps have a novice and competitive divisions which is split based on weather a gymnast has placed in the top 3 in that level of competition before or not.

Kids can wear small stud type earrings and I have never seen a bra strap deduction actually taken.

Minimum age for competition at any level is 5, minimum age for level 7 and above is 9.

Routines are scored out of 10 only up until level 6. From level 7 onwards we used the open scoring method used by FIG.

In level 6 (equivalent skill wise to about US level 5). You can choose to do either optional or compulsory routines. There is a list of skills to be included and there is lots of flexibility. Ie in the beam routine they need two different acro skills can be handstands, cartwheels, back walkover, front walkover, flic etc. on floor they need a front tumble it can be front tuck, handspring front tuck, front layout etc.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Since we have many of the changes you guys are asking for, what would the changes I want be?

Ensure coaches understand the biology and science behind coaching. Many coaching practices in gymnastics are still out of the dark ages. They are not effective and can be very dangerous.

Stop treating it like a job. Gymnastics at any level is supposed to be fun, whether it is for recreational gymnasts or elite gymnasts. It doesnt have to be like the army to be successful. Kids who are relaxed, happy and enjoying themselves often work harder, feel more confident to attempt difficult skills, experience less fear and are more willing to apply corrections.

Take a serious look at the hours kids are doing and ask ourselves, do we need these hours to achieve this? What really happens when kids do skills 20 times in a row. At first they get better and better, then the gymnast starts to fatigue both mentally and physically. For there the quality of the skill drops and the gymnast is now starting to allow small bad habits and mistakes creep in, so they are practising mistakes and getting good at mistakes. Our kids could spend less time in the gym and be better gymnasts if we focused on quality over quantity.

 

[RTT2]

My original question was if we could totally reinvision this sport, what would we ideally want? Personally, I would like to see a sport that actually allows women, not just young girls, to continue to compete for years. So many girls leave the sport physically and mentally broken at a young age. Is there a way to adjust training to allow growing girls to develop and thrive without so many burning out or leaving due to injury?

In my area football participation has dropped radically as awareness of the long term impact of concussions becomes better understood. If a sport frequently leaves kids damaged it needs to be changed or abandoned. How could we envision this sport in a way that keeps it sustainable for more athletes?

 

[JessSyd]

just take a year off? With all respect that's a horrible thought to kids coaches and parents.

Oh this topic is funny.

Parent: we want this change
Coach: no you do not, you think it is a horrible idea.

And therein lies the problem.

Non competitive years are such a non issue here. They happen. Lots of girls would rather train the level they are not quite ready to compete than spend another year competing routines that they have thoroughly mastered. Do routines not go stale for reluctant repeaters? Levels four here, for example, is only a small step up from three and so boring I cannot imagine anyone wanting to do it twice even though the jump to five is much bigger.

What is normal at my daughter's gym is for the coaches to have what they call The Talk with the girls before competition season. They lay out their options for them if they are not quite ready. Occasionally they will mandate a repeat, usually when safety or maturity are issues. But generally there are three options - start the season without the skill, knowing that scores will be low, repeat the previous level, or just keep training but not compete. And the girls, being little individuals and not predictable robots, choose the option that suits their personalities best. My daughter's training group has girls in all three categories this year.

The whole thing is based on the premise that the gymnasts have a better idea of why they are in the sport and what is important to them than their coaches do. Some girls like to progress but do not care about levels, some girls live to compete. Winning rarely comes into it because competitions are big and there really are not that many winners in the scheme of things. Kids who are only motivated by medals don't get far past level four.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Oh this topic is funny.

Parent: we want this change
Coach: no you do not, you think it is a horrible idea.

And therein lies the problem.

Non competitive years are such a non issue here. They happen. Lots of girls would rather train the level they are not quite ready to compete than spend another year competing routines that they have thoroughly mastered. Do routines not go stale for reluctant repeaters? Levels four here, for example, is only a small step up from three and so boring I cannot imagine anyone wanting to do it twice even though the jump to five is much bigger.

What is normal at my daughter's gym is for the coaches to have what they call The Talk with the girls before competition season. They lay out their options for them if they are not quite ready. Occasionally they will mandate a repeat, usually when safety or maturity are issues. But generally there are three options - start the season without the skill, knowing that scores will be low, repeat the previous level, or just keep training but not compete. And the girls, being little individuals and not predictable robots, choose the option that suits their personalities best. My daughter's training group has girls in all three categories this year.

The whole thing is based on the premise that the gymnasts have a better idea of why they are in the sport and what is important to them than their coaches do. Some girls like to progress but do not care about levels, some girls live to compete. Winning rarely comes into it because competitions are big and there really are not that many winners in the scheme of things. Kids who are only motivated by medals don't get far past level four.

Yes this sounds like an awesome gym. Our gym is very similar.

 

[raenndrops]

Yes this sounds like an awesome gym. Our gym is very similar.

Sounds like ours too.

 

[raenndrops]

Oh this topic is funny.

Parent: we want this change
Coach: no you do not, you think it is a horrible idea.

And therein lies the problem.

Non competitive years are such a non issue here. They happen. Lots of girls would rather train the level they are not quite ready to compete than spend another year competing routines that they have thoroughly mastered. Do routines not go stale for reluctant repeaters? Levels four here, for example, is only a small step up from three and so boring I cannot imagine anyone wanting to do it twice even though the jump to five is much bigger.

What is normal at my daughter's gym is for the coaches to have what they call The Talk with the girls before competition season. They lay out their options for them if they are not quite ready. Occasionally they will mandate a repeat, usually when safety or maturity are issues. But generally there are three options - start the season without the skill, knowing that scores will be low, repeat the previous level, or just keep training but not compete. And the girls, being little individuals and not predictable robots, choose the option that suits their personalities best. My daughter's training group has girls in all three categories this year.

The whole thing is based on the premise that the gymnasts have a better idea of why they are in the sport and what is important to them than their coaches do. Some girls like to progress but do not care about levels, some girls live to compete. Winning rarely comes into it because competitions are big and there really are not that many winners in the scheme of things. Kids who are only motivated by medals don't get far past level four.

I love it. Sounds like our gym.

With YG, she competed Old L4 at ages 7 and 8. She wasnt ready for new L4 (her choice ... HC gave her options), so she competed New L3 at age 9. Yes, the skills were the same, but the floor and beam routines were different. The next year, she still wasnt ready for L4, so she chose to go to Xcel Gold at age 10. Drama took her 11 year old season from her. She came back at age 12 and competed Gold again. She was very clear that she didn't want to repeat Gold again, so she has competed Xcel Platinum this season at age 13. She has 1 more season at Platinum (self-decided), then she will go to L6 or L7, depending on skill development ... in her mind, L6 is "different" because it isn't "Platinum" so that would be acceptable. HC is on board with this plan and loves how well thought out it is.

 

[sce]

Not competing until a gymnast is ready is an idea I like. My daughter lives for new skills and could care less about toe-point or dance or where her arms are. She is young and that may change with time. Teach her new progressions and new skills and she will love you as a coach. Isn't this method what is used to get a 9-year-old gymnast to level 10? I know surely he or she didn't spend a year at each level. How can training and not competing be good for some but not others?

I think winning and competing is driven by coaches, gym owners, and parents as a way to validate. That is a shame.

To recreate WAG has to mean NEW things in the gym and during competitions. It has to mean breaking from tradition, lose compulsory routines, leo restraints, judging (the 10) and many other non-sense things left due to tradition.

The 9yo level 10, which is really rare, still competed, they just scored out of some levels. Those kids probably have the best attention to detail though, toe point, body position etc. kids are not usually farmstead tracked if they are sloppy as it will eventually hinder them.

 

[John]

That may be true but I also can assume that they were hand picked by the coaches with nothing more than maybe she can. We have a new girl at our gym who is that ten year old level 10 going elite. Her old well know gym looks to have chewed her up.

 

[John]

My only point being there has to be a better way of this girl reaching for dreams.