1 1/2 at level 8

[sportyfam5]

My daughter and her team mate were going to do their 1 1/2 at the meet this weekend. Her team mate went first and did it beautifully! However, she was then given a SV of 9.5. Coach was told they counted it as a C because she did it so well. So coach told my DD not to do hers.
So my question is- Can a 1 1/2 done poorly at level 8 be ok? or is it always a C and therefore a deduction. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

the coach doesn't know the rule. a 1 1/2 is a C regardless how it looks or the outcome.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Hmm..I am stumped. Yes a 1 1/2 is a C, not allowed at the 8, hence the 0.5 unallowable element deduction. A 1 1/2 performed poorly - not completely finishing the twist - could be downgraded to a full, a B. But from your description your coach seems to understand that C's are not allowed, but assumed they would not get credit because they don't usually fully finish the twist? Why would the coach send a gymnast out on the floor to perform a skill poorly? Why not just do the full? Like you said, it doesn't make sense.

 

[AmandaLynn]

Hmm..I am stumped. Yes a 1 1/2 is a C, not allowed at the 8, hence the 0.5 unallowable element deduction. A 1 1/2 performed poorly - not completely finishing the twist - could be downgraded to a full, a B. But from your description your coach seems to understand that C's are not allowed, but assumed they would not get credit because they don't usually fully finish the twist? Why would the coach send a gymnast out on the floor to perform a skill poorly? Why not just do the full? Like you said, it doesn't make sense.

^^ That. And if he was hoping for it to be downgraded to a full and he's sending them out competing incomplete twisting elements, I'd be wary of the coaching.

why... Hello, there, Knee Injury! I've been waiting for you to show up!

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

Is a full allowed at level 7 or is there some kind of deduction for that?

 

[gympanda]

Is a full allowed at level 7 or is there some kind of deduction for that?

There is no deduction from the start value for doing a full at L7, however it does not count as a special requirement. There would still need to be a pass with three skills one of which is a back layout and a front pass with a salto. Sometimes coaches get confused and believe a full will fulfill the layout requirement, but it does not.

As to the OPs original question...it is important to remember that C acro skills are unallowable at L8 on both beam and floor. That will result in not only a .5 deduction from the Start Value, but also the skill will not count toward a special requirement or a value part. So...if the gymnast only had a 9.5 SV than the rest of the routine must have been designed to fulfill the rest of the value parts and special requirements without the pass that includes the 1 1/2...seems like a lot of gymnastics, for not a lot of payoff. I find this entire situation ODD!

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

^^ That. And if he was hoping for it to be downgraded to a full and he's sending them out competing incomplete twisting elements, I'd be wary of the coaching.

Agreed! Sounds weird to "want" your gymnast to do something poorly!

 

[sportyfam5]

I would like to clarify a bit. The coach did not want the girls to perform it poorly nor would he ever allow them to compete a skill they were inable to do. I feel he felt it may improve their scores. Here is what I think the problem was: He and another coach both wanted to add in the 1 1/2 to increase score. They are aware, I think (hope) that C skills are not allowed at 8. I think they didn't realize 1 1/2 was a C. He felt awful and apologized over and over. I believe he told us that sometimes it is done but given B credit to help us understand, maybe? I thought for sure I saw another level 8 girl do it that day too. Perhaps so and also with a deduction. Was a 1 1/2 allowable at old level 8 rules? Unfortunately, I did inform them a few years ago that my other daughter would be deducted for doing a back tuck on beam at L8. She choose to do it anyway.

I guess that is one trick they will be all set for L9.

Thanks again for all advice.

Can the Junior Olympic Code of Points be downloaded or only purchased? Do you have to be a coach to obtain? Sometimes I just want to know what skills count for what.

 

[flippin out]

yes, before fall 09 a 1-1/2 (C) was allowed at L8. They also allowed double backs off bars, Cs on beam...etc. All that changed in the fall 09 with the new revisions and hasn't been allowed since. I would question why your coach was unaware of the changes (since they are over 2 yrs ago). Has your gym not had L8 since then, so he was unaware? I think in your situation, I don't blame you for wanting the JO Code of Points book ....just sayin

 

[Deleted member D3987]

he should have known. period.

 

[sportyfam5]

yes, before fall 09 a 1-1/2 (C) was allowed at L8. They also allowed double backs off bars, Cs on beam...etc. All that changed in the fall 09 with the new revisions and hasn't been allowed since. I would question why your coach was unaware of the changes (since they are over 2 yrs ago). Has your gym not had L8 since then, so he was unaware? I think in your situation, I don't blame you for wanting the JO Code of Points book ....just sayin

Actually this is my daughter's 3rd year at level 8. Last year it was pretty much just her and the year before that 1-2 others but they were doing simple 8 routines. The girls prior to that were under old rules.

 

[gym monkeys mom]

Your coach needs to keep up on what is allowed year to year and what is not.

Our HC is bad at getting current info downloaded from USAG due to poor computer skills ......for this reason it is an office staff who prints updated Code of Points/rule changes info BUT he reads them and makes sure he knows what is allowed.

I am sorry for being harsh but I agree with dunno it was his job to know and he dropped the ball. I would be wary of his lack of knowledge about rules that changed 2 years ago. Things have changed a bunch in the last few years and are going to continue to do so in the next few years. He will need to be on the ball about new rules!!


Good luck... you can look rule changes and code of points up on USAG also best wishes to you....

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

You know what this sounds like to me? This sounds like the coach didn't know about the rule change that doesn't allow Cs at level 8, then tried to save face by putting a positive spin on it rather than admitting error.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes. and honesty is the best policy. admit the error and move one. none of us are perfect. and the judges...certainly less than us! LOLOLOLOL

 

[bookworm]

he should have known. period.

I agree with Dunno..you pay him to coach , and that to me implies, knowing the codes and what's allowed and what's not...this whole thing reminds me of a scenario several years back at a Regional meet where a gymnast was last up, was in 2nd place heading into her last event and with a great score , could have won it ...well she doesn't warm up her "new" skill because she wants to surprise everyone so the floor routine comes, she does it and she does it quite well , and the crowd is cheering because they think she has won the meet...well, my then 11 yo turns to me and says "I don't think that last pass is allowed at this level?" (and I forget what the skill was) and I say to my dd "well didn't she do this same routine a couple of weeks ago at States and it was allowed?" and dd says "no the last pass is her new skill but I don't think it's allowed"...3 judges were set to give her a 9.5 or 9.6 when judge #4 says "the last pass is not allowed at this level so she is disqualified for this event and gets a zero" ...and that was the score ...zero...well you can imagine the pandemonium after that ...the girl dropped from 2nd place to last in the AA, tears everywhere and her coach blamed the one judge who enforced the rule ( he said he was unaware of any rule change, when it had been 2 years prior) ...her score wasn't just dropped in start value, she was DQd from the event, all because her coach should have known....and I guess that's my point to you OP, you pay your coach to know the rules, period.

 

[Scarface]

The above scenario seems totally unlikely. There is only 0's on vault if you don't land feet first. Doing an unallowable element results in a deduction - not a 0.

 

[bookworm]

he should have known. period.

The above scenario seems totally unlikely. There is only 0's on vault if you don't land feet first. Doing an unallowable element results in a deduction - not a 0.

well we were there and it happened, it was 7 years ago, but it happened ...but my point was the coach didn't know the code and didn't take any responsibility for not knowing the code, and the kid threw a skill that wasn't allowed at that level , and AT THAT TIME, she was disqualified from that event (floor) in her regional meet...and finished last in the all around (did place nicely on the other 3 events) but should have been on the podium for the AA at her regional meet , and was not.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

The above scenario seems totally unlikely. There is only 0's on vault if you don't land feet first. Doing an unallowable element results in a deduction - not a 0.

actually that could and did happen back a few years ago. if bookworm says 7 that sounds about right.

 

[bookworm]

actually that could and did happen back a few years ago. if bookworm says 7 that sounds about right.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you Dunno! I was thinking I was crazy..I texted a few friends who were at that meet and asked them about it "didn't so and so get a disqualification when she did a skill that wasn't allowed at regionals?" and they all said yes....because if the SV was just lowered she still would have placed pretty high in the AA, and the affected gymnast wouldn't have been crying hysterically and dropped to the floor screaming when the meet referee came over to tell her and her coach that she had been disqualified....

 

[Deleted member D3987]

you're not crazy. i've just been thru so many codes and changes i can't keep track anymore. i do remember 1 meet when at that time level 8's couldn't yurchenko. all 3 kids from the same team took 0's. the coach was visibly angry. and all hell broke loose when the 1st 0 was given. the coach refused to have them do handsprings so he took the 0's.