An Opportunity to build character

[jsfofec]

I'm sure all gyms have it, where there's a gymnast or two that cheat at practice. If they are told to do 10 of something, they maybe do 5 or 6.

Recently the coaches have been coming down hard on "cheaters", where they are letting their parents know that they are having a problem. One girl was brought over to her mother because she was "cheating". So rather than talk to her daughter, they decided that gymnastics wasn't for them and quit.

The other day, levels 5 to 10 were all together to do these sprints on the floor. It's where you sprint to the line on the floor, touch it, and sprint back, then you sprint to the 2nd line, touch it and sprint back. There is a total of 4 lines, so once you go through all 4 lines, that counts as 1 time. Everybody was to do this 4 times.

One of the girls went slow on purpose and only did it 2 times by the time everybody was done. Of course, all the gymnasts and coaches saw this. So the coach said that they will have to do it again because somebody didn't do all 4. Then the coach said, "if the person who didn't do all 4 will come forward, then nobody will have to do it again". The person who didn't finish would not come forward, so everybody had to do it all over again.

This was an opportunity to show some character and get her teammate's respect, but instead, she let her teammates and herself down. The coach was really hoping that she would step forward.

 

[GTO]

Given the lack of context for this post, I am not sure where you are coming from Jsfofec... Are you trying to start a debate about poor parenting and/or lack of moral fiber in todays gymnasts?I would be very cautious about jumping to conclusions re. ".. so rather than talk to her daughter, they decided that gymnastics wasn't for them and quit." I suspect casual onlookers would write similar about my DD6 - Head coach came and spoke to me about poor attitude in the gym and a few days later I withdrew her from the program. What an onlooker would not see is that the HC's comments prompted a whole chain of events including several conversations with DD and my DH, watching a couple of practices from beginning to end and not liking a lot of things that I saw, and conferring with DD's current coach, old rec coach and her teacher. The HC and onlookers interpretation's would be that we pulled her on a whim from the program, "preventing" her from learning good attitude. The reality is that my actions were a carefully considered decision to switch her to a different gym, with a few months break to counteract physical burnout and a very poor coaching fit which realistically wasn't going to change. I think that you should be very careful about expressing judgments about parents, gymnasts and their intentions unless you have complete knowledge of the whole situation. And even then....

 

[jsfofec]

GTO, I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I don't know anything at all about your situation or anything that happened to you in the past.

All I was doing was telling about something that happened in our gym recently as the theme there has been about building character and being a good teammate. The one who quit after the coach talked to them wasn't the first time. They quit a couple of years ago, came back last season and now quit again after the coach tried to talk to the parent about her daughter's work ethic. After that talk, they never came back again.

 

[gymdog]

Gymnastics isn't a good fit for everyone...that's probably one of the things the coach was trying to make the parent aware of if their child is consistently not participating.

As far as the cheating, it happens and the coaches know. With younger kids I don't even give the opportunity. I count everything, unless it's "keep going until I say stop" kind of thing. Half the time they don't even know how to count so that just solves that. With older kids, if they consistently are having the sort of issue described, then I start thinking high level gymnastics isn't for them. I actually don't think it teaches any accountability to make everyone else go again, and it backs you into a corner. In my opinion, it produces far better results to make a big deal over the kids who did it right, congratulate them and allow them to have a privilege (work on tramp, etc). If I see a kid not completing something, I tell them "that was only 2. Were you trying to do 2? You're showing me you're not ready right now to do XYZ." (something I know the child wants to do).

That said, sometimes they just don't want to be there and if the parent is aware enough to realize that then I say good. Far too many parents are unaware.

 

[wallinbl]

One of the girls went slow on purpose and only did it 2 times by the time everybody was done. Of course, all the gymnasts and coaches saw this. So the coach said that they will have to do it again because somebody didn't do all 4. Then the coach said, "if the person who didn't do all 4 will come forward, then nobody will have to do it again". The person who didn't finish would not come forward, so everybody had to do it all over again.

This was an opportunity to show some character and get her teammate's respect, but instead, she let her teammates and herself down. The coach was really hoping that she would step forward.

Soccer sprints were always this way. If anyone dogged it, we all ran again. It's a great motivator - you don't want to let your teammates down, even if you're willing to let yourself down.

DD's former gym would have the girls take turns climbing the rope (up/down 2x) while the other girls would have to do hollow holds (or something similar). It definitely got the girls going up and down the rope faster when their teammates were calling out for them to hurry!

 

[jsfofec]

I actually don't think it teaches any accountability to make everyone else go again, and it backs you into a corner. In my opinion, it produces far better results to make a big deal over the kids who did it right, congratulate them and allow them to have a privilege (work on tramp, etc).

That's a good point. I understand what the coach was trying to do and what they hoped to achieve, but like you said, it backed this one girl in a corner.

 

[cbone]

Isn't this really a parenting issue? If you instill the mentality that quitting is unacceptable in YOUR child it will never be an issue. My boys would get mad when their football teammates would get them extra reps or laps. I would always tell them to do the extras with 100% effort and that, even though it was unfair, THEY were going to be stronger for it. The fact that some parents coddle their kids and settle for them giving less than 100% is sad. In sports, the only thing I ask of my kids is their best effort.

And kudos to the coach. The only thing that should have happened after practice, though, is the coach talking to the girl's parents. A missed teaching opportunity can still turn into a teaching opportunity.

 

[flipflopcrystal]

while there are many different situations....

kids need to be held accountable for cheating. it's a life lesson. we don't cheat on tests at school. we don't cheat on conditioning in gymnastics.

parents should hold their kids accountable and make them own up to cheating (if they did it). it will make them a better person.

we handle it the same way. the parent is notified when the kid is cheating. either they don't want to be there and don't care, or they think they can do the minimal amount and improve....like I said all situations are different. after so many instances we have a meeting.

if one person cheats, everyone starts over because we are a TEAM... builds good leadership/support qualities

this is all in character building and I fully support it. accountabillity, responsibility, trustworthy....

 

[Galadriel]

today dd said they were paired for conditioning. x reps different activities. last one to finish gets one point in each activity. to me i see recipe for cheating. - at end people with over x points 100 burpees, less them x points 50 burpees
kudos to dd that she actually was in the group with 100 because she won't cheat on conditioning , knowing its importance.
nothing to do with parenting. her own drive to improve.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[cbone]

Parents teach and reinforce drive...

 

[Flossyduck]

This brings up quite a few (recent) memories for me. In my daughter's last gym she would be the only one in her group who did absolutely every last rep she was asked for. I could see her counting them all out and she kept on going even though the other girls had moved on. It was quite painful to watch. She was always last to finish and once or twice she was told that she needed to speed up. On the quiet that upset me, because I thought the coaches would appreciate that she was sticking at it. They sometimes started the stretches without her.

In the end I had a little word with her about whether she might consider going easy on herself to keep up with the others (I know it was bad, but after weeks of watching her grind all the reps out while the others rattled a few off then went off for a drink and started stretching I cracked, I'm not proud of it!) She turned around and told me, in no uncertain terms, that she would never do that and that the only way to get better was to do it all and that the muscles hurting meant that they would learn to get stronger and she didn't want to be a 'cheater'. Well that was me told!

Her current gym takes conditioning super seriously and the coaches are right on top of it, counting everything out and making everyone repeat if anyone misses something. All those reps are certainly paying off now!

My daughter is seven, by the way, and pretty amazing I think!

 

[my4buffaloes]

My dd gets so frustrated with this. They are supposed to do a certain amount of each skill before they get free time. Most of the others either hurry through with bad form or hurry through and not do all of them so they can move on. Dd rarely gets free time because she won't not do all of them. It is hard to watch sometimes!

 

[gymdog]

Isn't this really a parenting issue? If you instill the mentality that quitting is unacceptable in YOUR child it will never be an issue. My boys would get mad when their football teammates would get them extra reps or laps. I would always tell them to do the extras with 100% effort and that, even though it was unfair, THEY were going to be stronger for it. The fact that some parents coddle their kids and settle for them giving less than 100% is sad. In sports, the only thing I ask of my kids is their best effort.

And kudos to the coach. The only thing that should have happened after practice, though, is the coach talking to the girl's parents. A missed teaching opportunity can still turn into a teaching opportunity.

Some kids are more intense than others. That's fine. It isn't necessarily a parenting failure. And the kids who cheat on conditioning are often nice, polite kids with a bright future in something.

But not everyone's going to be an elite athlete. We have to be realistic here. Yes, a kid who is has an occasional lapse in conditioning, but if we're talking about a consistent thing, then high level athletics is likely not their thing - or, they have attention issues and can't function with keeping track as well as other kids. They might want it just as much. In that case the coach needs to alter the environment somewhat for success while still helping the child build their executive functioning skills.

 

[cbone]

I agree that certain kids aren't as intense or don't have the natural ability, stamina or drive. I think it's totally unfair to ask a kid for more than they are able to give. From what OP said, though, this isn't what we're talking about. This is a kid who was sandbagging to get out of work. That, in my mind, is an issue with mentality and a huge portion of that reflects on parenting, I think.

 

[jsfofec]

I agree that certain kids aren't as intense or don't have the natural ability, stamina or drive. I think it's totally unfair to ask a kid for more than they are able to give. From what OP said, though, this isn't what we're talking about. This is a kid who was sandbagging to get out of work. That, in my mind, is an issue with mentality and a huge portion of that reflects on parenting, I think.

This particular gymnast has a history of doing this. She was once part of the teams TOPs program, but asked to leave because she couldn't/wouldn't do the required work. The coaches have talked to her parents and the parents have talked to her, but she continues to do it. Her parents are both very hard workers and display a really good work ethic, but she just doesn't have the drive or seem to really care. She does like gymnastics, but just doesn't like the work that it takes to be good at it.

 

[Kiwi]

Hmmm...as a parent who has had an issue with this recently, I would say to be very careful about this kind of discipline. I don't agree with the "whoever didn't do enough own up" and making the whole lot go again. I would simply tell the one kid "It looked to me like you only did 4 reps, you need to go back and finish all 10". Address it immediately, keep it low key, and with low embarrassment to the kid. I think some kids find it hard to keep count and sometimes lose count of how many they've done. You also need to make sure you have counted their reps accurately if you are going to accuse them of not doing enough. Pairing the kids up to do the reps together can work well.

 

[kimskids]

I think a lot of kids hate conditioning and just want to get it over with as soon as possible. I don't know that they really understand how important it is and they just want to get to the fun stuff. I'm not sure how I think it should be handled personally???

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

I feel that "cheating" on conditioning needs to be addressed differently with different age groups. Kids who are 10 or 11 or younger may need a strict coach's word and high supervision during strength. Younger kids often cheat because the strength is hard, they want to get done faster to do something else, or simply because they're not focused. It's not a matter of drive or committment necessarily - many younger children just can't link this horrible, hard exercise that they hate to being able to do fun and exciting skills later. That was true for me as a seven-year-old, anyway. So a coach just needs to make sure everyone is being watched. They can also make strength a competition between the kids, which could be both fun and effective.

For older children (pre-teens and teens), skipping conditioning happens more because they are exerting their control over themselves. E.g., "Coach can't make me do this" or "I know my body and I just can't do this today". For me, sometimes I do fewer of the hardest exercise because I cannot complete them (press handstands from sitting, back tucks in ankle weights, straight-body cast handstands) which I know is stupid. If I don't do them, how will I learn them? It just feels impossible to learn them without a coach's help, and we get little to no supervision/spotting/help from coaches during strength. So there's an aspect of learned helplessness there.

So for older kids, I think the best strategy for a coach is to remind the girls (or boys I guess) that what they are doing will make them better gymnasts. The gymnast's future is then in her own hands. Although, if cheating still persists and the gymnast loses strength, the coach may need to institute things like saying that no one can go to the next event until everyone is done, and possibly give a nice inspirational pep talk about how important conditioning is. Most optional gymnasts have a lot of internal motivation anyway.

 

[She Flies]

Parents teach and reinforce drive...

IMO, passion fuels drive. I would much rather find what sport/activity my daughter was passionate about and will be driven in herself than to try to manufacture what should be there in the first place. My daughter is driven in the gym (and on the soccer field) naturally by her passion and love. I stay out of it. I hope the child that left the gym can find something that she truly loves.

 

[my4buffaloes]

IMO, passion fuels drive. I would much rather find what sport/activity my daughter was passionate about and will be driven in herself than to try to manufacture what should be there in the first place. My daughter is driven in the gym (and on the soccer field) naturally by her passion and love. I stay out of it. I hope the child that left the gym can find something that she truly loves.

I totally agree with this. I used to think my son was lazy and wasn't willing to try hard at sports. We tried numerous sports and while he liked them the 1 hour a week he was playing them he never picked it up at home. No shooting baskets, tossing the baseball or anything. My dd on the other hand does gymnastics all the time and my son wonders why he isn't as good at his sports as my dd is at gymnastics. Then he found his passion. He picked up a sport I would have never pegged him for and he loves it and plays it all the time. He asks everyone here all the time to please play it with him. And he is getting good at it. He how has the drive to work hard and improve. Passion for a sport has to be there if the kids are going to do it for the long haul.