Parents Attitude Toward Injuries

[headoverheels]

I posted in another thread about my daughter's continued pain in her foot, and she will have an MRI in the morning to try to get to the bottom of it once and for all. But I noticed yesterday that her coaches seem to be losing patience with her inability to do anything more than conditioning during practice. They are respecting the restrictions placed on her by the doctor but it's clear that they are anxious for her to get back to normal. I feel like I'm walking a tightrope between protecting my daughter and keeping the coaches happy, which is totally not my job! In fact, I find myself almost embarrassed when I have to give them an update that does not include "no restrictions". I don't like feeling this way! Has anyone else ever experienced this?

 

[Quadqueen]

YES

 

[NutterButter]

Yes! I have experienced this and I felt the same as you. My DD sprained her foot and was told by the ortho to wear a boot for a week. DD got the impression from the coaches that wearing a boot for a week was over the top. They made a few comments to her which made her feel like she had done something wrong. I have no opinion on whether the boot for that amount of time was appropriate but I definitely felt awkward about it all.

 

[gopuckgo]

One of the reasons we left our previous gym. Most coaches are great, but every once on a while you get one or two that just don't get the big picture. It is difficult to balance being the parent and communicating information to coaches who are not in agreement with you or the doctor.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Well this is a loaded subject,,,,,
So,,, here goes nothing,,,,
Okay, as a parent it is a very very difficult to determine if your child has a real injury or just a boo boo.
As a Dr, they just go off what you say and put a brace on it, tell you to take time off etc...
As a coach, you have to try to determine if the injury is real or just a boo boo, (no one else is doing this, not the doctor and certainly not the parents). Parents, including me have a habit of believing and protecting, which is good right? Well,,,, that all depends,,,
Believe it or not, kids are taught pain tolerance from the parents. Yes pain tolerance is taught.... (coaches do it every day).
So if a parent, rushes to the aid of every little boo boo when the child is a toddler, then takes the child to the DR or Physical Therapist, every single time the child has an ache or pain,,, guess what??? That child is being taught that ANY pain is serious. Really,,,, it's that simple.
However being a parent myself, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to go against your parental instincts, so yes an outside force (not a DR) is sometimes needed to question the validity of an injury or the severity of it. As a parent this may be offending to you....
Bottom line is it's very hard to determine, but the reality is,,,,, do we really have to go to the DR, for every little ache and pain?
Don't get me wrong and please don't post, "oh so we shouldn't listen to the dr"..... What I am telling you is, if you or a DR takes everything at face value then each and every time a boo boo occurs, then time off will be recommended.
Dr. are not mind readers, you give them your symptoms they tell you what they think is wrong and tell you to take time off or splint it, 90% of the time. And booting and casting things has gotten way out of hand in my opinion, completely..... Example: Kid goes to the Dr, because her heel hurts, but she is running and jumping just fine comes home with a boot on??????? Really.....
Here is a true and great story... I had a child years ago who had to skip sectionals because of a wedding. Well the only way to get into state at that time (rules are different now) was to get a Dr note...... So I sent a perfectly healthy child to the Dr, she told the Dr about some aches and pains, The Dr,,,,, gave her a Dr note stating that she had to take a month off!!!! I had to send the kid back to the Dr, to get note changed because they would not let her compete at state because the Dr note did not release her until after state! This actually happened, so keep that in mind when you go to the Dr. Was the Dr wrong? No, she/he was just listening to the child and told them to take time off based on experience..
So it's a hard thing to figure out, but ultimately it is the parents who are teaching and in charge of this issue, the coaches can only speculate and suggest...

 

[Deleted member 18037]

OK coachp, totally agree that parents attitude go along way to how kids deal with an injury.

That said, isn't knowing the athlete and parents, helpful from a coaches perspective as to who might be the over-reacters?

You know the ones who complain often at practice, especially with stuff they don't like, are quick to miss practice for every little ache and pain.

My kid has been at her gym for going on her third year. went to states coming off the flu. Has had no issues (so far knock wood), worked out with some ugly rips without a complaint. I would think if she did have an issue and need to be off as per doctor, our coach would take that seriously because they know my husband, daughter and I.

Now I could think of some girls where they might be a bit skeptical but again I think they have a good handle on who the fragile ones are.

 

[headoverheels]

coachp has some great points. ^^^ I will say that I am not always quick to take my kids to the doctor because, well, hypochondria is not unknown at our house. Unless it's a traumatic event like a hard fall or an injury I personally witness I tend to wait a few days to see if it will resolve on its own. That may be its own kind of problem, I suppose. I totally agree that the tendency toward extreme caution can get out of hand. With this particular injury I waited nearly a week before taking her in, until I had noticed her limping and walking on the outside of the affected foot. This is the same foot that had the suspected toe fracture a few months ago which led to three weeks in a boot right before the first meet of the season. And they weren't even sure it was broken!

It is definitely hard to determine which injuries are serious and which are not. I wish there was a color coded system within my kid that would show red for urgent, blue for medium, yellow for minor, etc.

Also, DD told me today that one of the coaches came up to her and said he'd told one of his gymnasts that if she got another injury she was off his team and she never had another injury after that. At the same time he told my DD that if she was injured she should stay out of the gym. No one has suggested such a thing to me and I would question it if they did. I'm not sure what to think about this since I didn't hear it from him myself and I know things get altered in the repeating, but I will be monitoring the situation.

 

[gopuckgo]

Well this is a loaded subject,,,,,
So,,, here goes nothing,,,,
Okay, as a parent it is a very very difficult to determine if your child has a real injury or just a boo boo.
As a Dr, they just go off what you say and put a brace on it, tell you to take time off etc...
As a coach, you have to try to determine if the injury is real or just a boo boo, (no one else is doing this, not the doctor and certainly not the parents). Parents, including me have a habit of believing and protecting, which is good right? Well,,,, that all depends,,,
Believe it or not, kids are taught pain tolerance from the parents. Yes pain tolerance is taught.... (coaches do it every day).
So if a parent, rushes to the aid of every little boo boo when the child is a toddler, then takes the child to the DR or Physical Therapist, every single time the child has an ache or pain,,, guess what??? That child is being taught that ANY pain is serious. Really,,,, it's that simple.
However being a parent myself, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to go against your parental instincts, so yes an outside force (not a DR) is sometimes needed to question the validity of an injury or the severity of it. As a parent this may be offending to you....
Bottom line is it's very hard to determine, but the reality is,,,,, do we really have to go to the DR, for every little ache and pain?
Don't get me wrong and please don't post, "oh so we shouldn't listen to the dr"..... What I am telling you is, if you or a DR takes everything at face value then each and every time a boo boo occurs, then time off will be recommended.
Dr. are not mind readers, you give them your symptoms they tell you what they think is wrong and tell you to take time off or splint it, 90% of the time. And booting and casting things has gotten way out of hand in my opinion, completely..... Example: Kid goes to the Dr, because her heel hurts, but she is running and jumping just fine comes home with a boot on??????? Really.....
Here is a true and great story... I had a child years ago who had to skip sectionals because of a wedding. Well the only way to get into state at that time (rules are different now) was to get a Dr note...... So I sent a perfectly healthy child to the Dr, she told the Dr about some aches and pains, The Dr,,,,, gave her a Dr note stating that she had to take a month off!!!! I had to send the kid back to the Dr, to get note changed because they would not let her compete at state because the Dr note did not release her until after state! This actually happened, so keep that in mind when you go to the Dr. Was the Dr wrong? No, she/he was just listening to the child and told them to take time off based on experience..
So it's a hard thing to figure out, but ultimately it is the parents who are teaching and in charge of this issue, the coaches can only speculate and suggest...

Agree and disagree with that. Doctors and therapists don't just listen to symptoms or to parents. We use years of knowledge and training of studying disease pathology and research based treatments and techniques. We evaluate signs that a coach does not have the background or training to know. Is it edema? Is it ligament or tendon or lymph or nerve? Is it impinged or not, etc. you get the picture. We perform a lot of tests to reproduce the symptoms and we advise from there.

Now are there kids that fake and parents that do too, absolutely!!! But if a doctor with a sports medicine or orthopedic background gives a boot or tells a coach to rest it then you need to listen as a coach period. It is negligence not to if the condition worsens as a result of not following the orders.

Likewise, a doctor would not waltz into your gym and propose to tell an experienced coach how to coach because they have watched gymnastics for years. They wouldn't or shouldn't. It is called respect and should be mutual.

I do think some people in general may have a low tolerance for pain. Bit I have seen it go both ways with coaches disrespecting the parents and doctors and parents disrespecting coaches.

It is hard to say because each situation is unique. The main thing is to develop a relationship with the doctor or therapist that way communication lines are open.

 

[NutterButter]

I agree with much of what coachp said.

 

[NutterButter]

Somehow I posted too soon....I agree with what coachp said but it can be hard to know how long to wait before seeking care. With my DD and the boot for the sprain -- she already had the boot from another injury. She could bear no weight on the sprained foot and would've missed school for two days if she didn't have it. She was in lots of pain. Compare that to several months prior when she fractured her foot only we didn't know it was fractured for an entire month. She wasn't in much pain with this injury and except for the first couple of days after the injury was training and competing as normal.

 

[Dka]

I think a certain amount of pain tolerance is expected in athletes. In my sport during preseason it seems as though some girls get aches and pains because they did not condition all summer and go to the docs, then have to sit out for two weeks etc. the coaches and trainers have to abide by this, but after the aches and strains are over, the child expects to be inserted right into the line up come game time, which never happens, because other kids worked through the soreness etc and are fitter and more capable. My children who are athletes have been told the difference between, sore( hard work out the day before) , hurt( a bad bruise etc- suck it up) and injury( break etc). Sometimes it is hard to differentiate but it seems to work so far.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

We have a team Dr who we are strongly urged to use in the event of an injury. They communicate directly with the coaches about what the gymnast can and can't do, to help get the gymnast back to full speed asap. Fortunately we haven't had to use this service yet, but those who have have been very pleased.

I have another daughter in another sport badly sprain an ankle. That Dr put her on crutches and in a boot(which she needed because she couldn't walk) and told her to stay off it for 10 days. Boot was off and she was walking in 4. Drs can't really tell you when a non break injury will be healed. A motivated athlete will get back in the game when they are ready. Perhaps if gymnasts are faking or extending injuries, there are deeper issues involved that should be explored. Pushing a child back from an injury in contradiction of a Dr doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

[raenndrops]

Well this is a loaded subject,,,,,
So,,, here goes nothing,,,,
Okay, as a parent it is a very very difficult to determine if your child has a real injury or just a boo boo.
As a Dr, they just go off what you say and put a brace on it, tell you to take time off etc...
As a coach, you have to try to determine if the injury is real or just a boo boo, (no one else is doing this, not the doctor and certainly not the parents). Parents, including me have a habit of believing and protecting, which is good right? Well,,,, that all depends,,,
Believe it or not, kids are taught pain tolerance from the parents. Yes pain tolerance is taught.... (coaches do it every day).
So if a parent, rushes to the aid of every little boo boo when the child is a toddler, then takes the child to the DR or Physical Therapist, every single time the child has an ache or pain,,, guess what??? That child is being taught that ANY pain is serious. Really,,,, it's that simple.
However being a parent myself, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to go against your parental instincts, so yes an outside force (not a DR) is sometimes needed to question the validity of an injury or the severity of it. As a parent this may be offending to you....
Bottom line is it's very hard to determine, but the reality is,,,,, do we really have to go to the DR, for every little ache and pain?
Don't get me wrong and please don't post, "oh so we shouldn't listen to the dr"..... What I am telling you is, if you or a DR takes everything at face value then each and every time a boo boo occurs, then time off will be recommended.
Dr. are not mind readers, you give them your symptoms they tell you what they think is wrong and tell you to take time off or splint it, 90% of the time. And booting and casting things has gotten way out of hand in my opinion, completely..... Example: Kid goes to the Dr, because her heel hurts, but she is running and jumping just fine comes home with a boot on??????? Really.....
Here is a true and great story... I had a child years ago who had to skip sectionals because of a wedding. Well the only way to get into state at that time (rules are different now) was to get a Dr note...... So I sent a perfectly healthy child to the Dr, she told the Dr about some aches and pains, The Dr,,,,, gave her a Dr note stating that she had to take a month off!!!! I had to send the kid back to the Dr, to get note changed because they would not let her compete at state because the Dr note did not release her until after state! This actually happened, so keep that in mind when you go to the Dr. Was the Dr wrong? No, she/he was just listening to the child and told them to take time off based on experience..
So it's a hard thing to figure out, but ultimately it is the parents who are teaching and in charge of this issue, the coaches can only speculate and suggest...

And on the other end of the spectrum, you have a mother who lets her daughter run around with a broken arm (both bones in the forearm) for 3 days before getting her seen by a doctor (at MY insistence because of what I observed at practice... and NOT in my coaching role... the girl is YG's younger stepsister). SAME mother tried to put the SAME daughter into Anaphylactic shock less than a week later by making her eat something she had been diagnosed as allergic to 3 years prior "to see if she was still allergic." THEN, she only wanted to treat with 4 x benedryl, left over prednisone, and a cool shower ... again, she was FORCED to take the child to the ER.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I too agree at least in part with coachp. As a parent as well as a coach, I have to say that I honestly give more "credit" to the kids I coach than my own kids. I am firmly in the "suck it up, Buttercup" camp when it comes to minor aches and pains, and I'm certain that if anything, I'm probably too SLOW to seek medical attention for my kids.
They are both getting better at recognizing whether something needs to be checked out or simply treated at home. They have chosen activities that involve some pain normally, and certainly soreness and minor injuries (once is a dancer, who is en pointe, and one obviously a gymmie). The dancer and I once watched an interview with a young professional ballerina where the reporter (stupidly) asked her if she wasn't in pain [from doing whatever move she had just done] and she simply replied :"I'm in pain every day. It's not the same thing all the time, but yes, every single day, *something* hurts!"

So, we have had many discussions about what is SORE and what is HURT and what is INJURED and needs attention. The girls both know the basics for taking care of soreness, aches and minor injuries. They report to me, mostly so I can keep track and try to figure out if a pattern emerges, but then they are expected to deal with the care themselves. If they do NOT use the tools given to them they aren't allowed to whine about being in pain. It's difficult, but they are definitely getting much better at figuring out if something actually needs attention or it just needs an ice pack, some arnica and some relative rest. They also both know that they are expected to rest whatever is hurting while NOT at gym/dance, I wouldn't appreciate them goofing off at recess and messing something up. Older DD is really good at this, she takes things seriously and wouldn't risk aggravating an injury unnecessarily.
As far as "medical attention" our first stop is always our wonderful chiropractor. She is trained in PT as well and I count on her to not only assess the injury but also help heal it as well as give the girls the tools necessary to help themselves in between visits. She knows their schedule and intensity and would never suggest outrageous time off or anything... But she is not shy to suggest modified workouts and what they can and cannot do. A more traditional physician tends to automatically prescribe rest which is why she is our first stop.

As a coach, I do want to listen to the kids and take pain seriously. I work with a younger set (up to 8-9) and lots of younger kids have a really hard time distinguishing between hurt and sore. My standard response to reports of hurt ankles etc is to give them other assignments, usually conditioning. If the kid is truly hurt, they are happy to do it and it rests the afflicted body part, if the kid is fishing for attention and/or just not wanting to do whatever task it is we are doing, the "pain" usually goes away when we start doing something more fun (and I take note of that behaviour). I always let the parents know when I have kids doing conditioning assignments instead of drills so they can follow up and let me know also what their thoughts are on it. I chat with the gymnasts about trying to figure out if it is a SORE vs HURT pain.

If I have a gymnast who is constantly injured, I'm not going to lie, that would probably be slightly frustrating but FOR the gymnast, not against the gymnast if that makes sense. If it was something reoccurring I would need to examine whether there is something in the training OR possibly with that child that might be at fault (a friend of mine's daughter had to quit gym because of an inherited weakness in her ankle. She would sprain her ankles constantly and be basically permanently bruised and swollen. The repetitive impact at gym was not good for her.... No gym, no more constant ankle troubles).

As a rule though, even if I might be frustrated FOR the gymnast, I would always rather see kids doing modified workouts until they are completely ready rather than push for too much too soon. The difficulty is in figuring out exactly when that is between me/doctor/parent..! I'm not a doctor and I can only use common sense and yes, I will admit that I have had parents who I felt were overly cautious and took their child out for things I would have had my own kids work through. But, as they are not my kids, I can only give my opinion and then defer to the parents.

 

[skschlag]

So, we have had many discussions about what is SORE and what is HURT and what is INJURED and needs attention. The girls both know the basics for taking care of soreness, aches and minor injuries. They report to me, mostly so I can keep track and try to figure out if a pattern emerges, but then they are expected to deal with the care themselves. If they do NOT use the tools given to them they aren't allowed to whine about being in pain. It's difficult, but they are definitely getting much better at figuring out if something actually needs attention or it just needs an ice pack, some arnica and some relative rest. They also both know that they are expected to rest whatever is hurting while NOT at gym/dance, I wouldn't appreciate them goofing off at recess and messing something up. Older DD is really good at this, she takes things seriously and wouldn't risk aggravating an injury unnecessarily.

This exactly. I am always asking D, are you sore, hurt or injured. He is really good at letting me know, and now, I don't often hear about the sore, he just takes care of it (tiger balm, ice, rest). hurt and injured I hear about, and we decide a course of action. Fortunately, his doctor was a gymnast, so he is able to give us realistic guidelines when he is injured (even to an ultimatum....he may not even go into the gym for a week....because he knows they don't always listen).

 

[Anna's_Mom]

I can certainly see this going both ways, but I still maintain that it is not a coach's place to contradict a child's doctor. Coach does not have a medical degree and may or may not know what went into a diagnosis -- was this a brief office visit and "stay off it for X days" or did this involve x-rays, MRI, or other options for a more concrete diagnosis. Even if coach is sure that the doctor is being over-cautious, I would still be upset if the coach was indicating that she shouldn't trust her doctor (either verbally or non-verbally). What happens the next time when it is something major and child doesn't trust doctor anymore? Or girl doesn't tell mom about something that hurts because coach says to "suck it up, buttercup"? Sorry, not the coach's role.

So far my daughter hasn't had a serious injury, but I think I would probably have to make her quit the team because I don't actually trust her coach to protect her from a longer-term injury. He says injured girls do conditioning around their injury but I've seen him insist that someone with a broken leg do a bars workout because "that doesn't use her legs". Well yeah, but a fall is going to be disastrous! I'm sort of surprised that they don't worry more about their liability if a more serious injury results from their pushing girls to do what they shouldn't. If a doctor has said "don't do X" and the coach encouraged them to do it anyway, and something happened, I would be all over the gym!

I am happy to acknowledge coach as expert in all things gymnastics, but outside of that, not their business. I'll respect their expertise in the gym but I expect them to respect me (and people like doctors) outside of the gym.

 

[skschlag]

I tend to agree with you Anna's_Mom, but you will find doctors that also have no clue what you mean. When D hurt his shoulder, I asked the doctor if he could do Gym (Not his regular doctor). Doctor's reply was "I see no reason why he can't participate in PE." I had to explain to him that D was a competitive gymnast, and then he said "oh I don' tknow, stay off it for 2 weeks). He really had no idea. Same thing happened with his latest injuriy and stitches. The conversation with the ER doc when he got his stitches out when like this

Me: He is a gymnast, when can he return to practice?
Doc: most kids can resume full activity once stitches are out.
D: Great, so no restrictions?
Doc: No, you can run and play as usual.
Me: Can he tumble and dismount from the igh bar and vault?
Doc: Oh, maybe he should stay off it a bit longer.
Me: So he shoudl wait?
Doc: Well, most kids can return to full activity once stitches are out.
Me: So, he can practice today?
Doc: Wel, no guarantees, maybe he should take a few more days off.

It was so frustrating. So we called his doc and go full clearance. So, it is important to make sure your doctor understands what "doing gymnastics" means.

 

[profmom]

Sometimes I am tempted to whip out my cell phone and show a couple of videos. "This is what I mean about doing gym."

I actually did do that in a different context with DS's teachers this year. He didn't neglect to finish that suddenly added extra dollop of homework because he was sitting on the couch playing video games and eating bonbons all night after spending an hour doing cartwheels and bouncing on a trampoline, lady.

 

[Seeker]

And on the other end of the spectrum, you have a mother who lets her daughter run around with a broken arm (both bones in the forearm) for 3 days before getting her seen by a doctor (at MY insistence because of what I observed at practice... and NOT in my coaching role... the girl is YG's younger stepsister). SAME mother tried to put the SAME daughter into Anaphylactic shock less than a week later by making her eat something she had been diagnosed as allergic to 3 years prior "to see if she was still allergic." THEN, she only wanted to treat with 4 x benedryl, left over prednisone, and a cool shower ... again, she was FORCED to take the child to the ER.

No offense, but she sounds like an idiot. A dangerous one at that!

 

[gopuckgo]

I tend to agree with you Anna's_Mom, but you will find doctors that also have no clue what you mean. When D hurt his shoulder, I asked the doctor if he could do Gym (Not his regular doctor). Doctor's reply was "I see no reason why he can't participate in PE." I had to explain to him that D was a competitive gymnast, and then he said "oh I don' tknow, stay off it for 2 weeks). He really had no idea. Same thing happened with his latest injuriy and stitches. The conversation with the ER doc when he got his stitches out when like this

Me: He is a gymnast, when can he return to practice?
Doc: most kids can resume full activity once stitches are out.
D: Great, so no restrictions?
Doc: No, you can run and play as usual.
Me: Can he tumble and dismount from the igh bar and vault?
Doc: Oh, maybe he should stay off it a bit longer.
Me: So he shoudl wait?
Doc: Well, most kids can return to full activity once stitches are out.
Me: So, he can practice today?
Doc: Wel, no guarantees, maybe he should take a few more days off.

It was so frustrating. So we called his doc and go full clearance. So, it is important to make sure your doctor understands what "doing gymnastics" means.

Exactly why you would take your child to a sports medicine specialist or therapist with knowledge of sports including gymnastics. All a parent needs to do is ask for a referral for a specialist if the injury is severe enough and requires a more trained eye on it.

In horse racing you don't see the jockey or the jockey's coach trying to treat the injured horse do you? Of course not, that is what a vet is for.