WAG Bar Routine Question

[Susank]

My daughter is competing level 7 this season. She has a very standard bar routine - kip, clear hip, squat on, giant-giant, fly away. When she comes out of her clear hip, she is at horizontal at best (she is not able to come close to a handstand). Just wondering what the deductions would be in her routine for not having more height on her clear hip (I hope I worded that right!). Thank you!

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

I think if it is above horizontal they meet the requirement and I don't think there is a deduction for it not hitting handstand. There is a deduction however if her casts do not hit handstand. That is pretty much my DD's bar routine also so if I am wrong I would be interested in knowing .

 

[CoachTodd]

I would aim for a good 15 degrees above horizontal but with the giants in there, I'm not really sure she needs B credit for it.

 

[Susank]

I don't think that she knows that she needs to hit a cast handstand before her clear hip. She does do it before her giant, but not before the clear hip. Thanks for the info.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

If she gets credit, then applicable angle deductions are taken.
Edit/ add, and yes a freehip /stalder/toe on is required, a giant cannot fulfill that requirement.

 

[acm1289]

It is a deduction. If she hits horizontal its .3 off. Below that is a higher deduction. Here's the chart from usag that shows the deductions.
http://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/J.O. Code of Points/appndx10_BarTechnique2013.pdf

 

[chalkbowl]

Wow there is a lot of crazy info in this thread...let me try to summarize everything and answer your question.

Every skill in the optional level is expected to hit handstand...whether it is a cast, a free-hip, a stalder, etc. The deduction for a free-hip to horizontal is .3 as someone mentioned, however she is still getting B value part credit regardless of the fact that she is only coming out at horizontal. This free-hip is required as she needs a skill from groups 3, 6, or 7 and free-hips are included in that

Cast amplitude is a biggie at level 7 as the athletes are required to have one cast a minimum of 45 degrees from vertical. If both of her casts are below that requirement, her SV on her routine will only be a 9.5 as she will be missing a special requirement. She will also get whatever amplitude deductions apply on the casts.

 

[Quadqueen]

Chalkbowl, what would the deduction be at level 7 for a clear hip that hits 45 degrees above horizontal, with both casts at handstand? I agree, there seems to be very different opinions on this issue!

 

[chalkbowl]

Chalkbowl, what would the deduction be at level 7 for a clear hip that hits 45 degrees above horizontal, with both casts at handstand? I agree, there seems to be very different opinions on this issue!

The athlete would be 45 degrees short of vertical on the free-hip so there would be no deduction, but that athlete would receive B value part (rather than the C value part of a free-hip to handstand). There would be no amplitude deduction on the casts.

 

[Quadqueen]

but there's no C requirement for L7, correct?

 

[justforfun]

What would the deduction be for a level 8 bar routine that doesn't hit handstand on the free hip?

 

[2gymmies]

So is there no "A" clear hip any more? Used to be a clear hip to horizontal was an A with no deductions and it had to be above horizontal to received the B (and take the B angle deductions).

 

[fliptwisttwirl]

So is there no "A" clear hip any more? Used to be a clear hip to horizontal was an A with no deductions and it had to be above horizontal to received the B (and take the B angle deductions).

As long as the free hip "clears the bar" they get the B value. Just with huge deductions if it's low. We had a judge come in last night and that's what she said.

 

[profmom]

What I saw last year was that a clear/free hip that didn't reach horizontal was deemed an A, and therefore if it was supposed to be one of a girl's B skills on bars, she wound up with a missing special requirement unless the second B was somewhere else in the routine. No C requirement for either old or new L7 as far as I know. But for your DD, perhaps doing two giants would mean that even if she didn't get credit for the clear/free hip, she would have the two Bs and thus would only have to deal with the deduction for the height.

 

[htimcj]

C's aren't required in level 7 but they are allowed one from a specific set and free hip to handstand is one of them.

 

[acm1289]

What would the deduction be for a level 8 bar routine that doesn't hit handstand on the free hip?

Same as level 7. The height requirements for casts and circling elements are the same at all optional levels.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

To get credit the clear hip MUST be at horizontal or above to get B value. IN OPTIONALS, If it is below 45 degrees and above horizontal then value is given but deductions are taken, (example horizontal equals .3 and less as it get closer to 45 degrees). once 45 degrees is reached NO DEDUCTIONS are taken, UNTIL (here is where it gets weird), If a child gets to 20 degrees from handstand, C value is given but they lose a half tenth.... That's right, if your DD goes to a meet, hits 45 degrees no deduction, but if she does a better freehip and hits between 10 -20 degrees, she gets C value (which she does not need in 7) and gets a half tenth deduction... yep
Casting requirements may be lower in 7 to attain credit but deductions are still taken if less than 10 degrees from handstand.
1. horizontal to get credit to fulfill requirement, below horizontal equals no value, which is a BIG deduction
2. a set of two giants DOES NOT make up for not having a clearhip, stalder or toe shoot. They are required to have 1 B value freehip, stalder or toe shoot. The 2nd B can from a giant.

 

[flipflopsalto]

Can they do 1 giant and a clear hip? Or do they need 2 giants

 

[wandrewsjr]

To get credit the clear hip MUST be at horizontal or above to get B value[/B]. IN OPTIONALS, If it is below 45 degrees and above horizontal then value is given but deductions are taken, (example horizontal equals .3 and less as it get closer to 45 degrees). once 45 degrees is reached NO DEDUCTIONS are taken, UNTIL (here is where it gets weird), If a child gets to 20 degrees from handstand, C value is given but they lose a half tenth.... That's right, if your DD goes to a meet, hits 45 degrees no deduction, but if she does a better freehip and hits between 10 -20 degrees, she gets C value (which she does not need in 7) and gets a half tenth deduction... yep
Casting requirements may be lower in 7 to attain credit but deductions are still taken if less than 10 degrees from handstand.
1. horizontal to get credit to fulfill requirement, below horizontal equals no value, which is a BIG deduction
2. a set of two giants DOES NOT make up for not having a clearhip, stalder or toe shoot. They are required to have 1 B value freehip, stalder or toe shoot. The 2nd B can from a giant.

This has changed this year. There is no longer an "A" clear hip. If the hips clear the bar, it is a "B" (or "C" if handstand). Amplitude deductions do apply (0.3 at horizontal, 0.35 to 0.4 below horizontal).

 

[profmom]

Right, CoachP, I forgot about the two different groups thing! Sorry about that. But last year at least, one giant plus one acceptable free hip was enough for the two Bs. Don't think that has changed.