WAG conditioning vs. skills on preteam

[mommyof1]

My almost-7-year-old is in her second year of preteam. The first year was mostly about conditioning and not much work on skills, which seemed like the right focus at the time--after all, you have to be able to do a pull-up before you can do a pullover. She moved from L1 preteam to L2 preteam at the beginning of the summer, and this fall they finally began working on some of the L3 skills (BHC, shoot-through, beam leap and dismount, backwards roll to push-up position, progressions for BHS). About a month ago, the coach moved three new 5-year-olds up from L1 to L2. Since that time, my daughter reports that her group has done virtually no work on skills, only conditioning. For the past month, she claims that on floor all they have done is frog jumps and other conditioning (no handstand forward roll, backwards roll, handstand bridge kickover, etc.), they have done nothing other than pullovers and casts on bars, and they have only done walks and kicks on beam. I do not watch practice so I cannot verify the accuracy of her claims, although I do watch her private lessons (private lessons are unfortunately the norm at this gym) and I don't see much skill work going on there either.

My daughter desperately wants to compete L3 next fall, but unless they start teaching skills soon I just don't see how it will ever happen. My concerns are compounded by the fact that I recently realized that a large share of last year's L4 team is repeating at new L3, despite the fact that many of these girls entered the preteam program not two but THREE years before they began competing. I suspect that this is because they don't appear to do any uptraining during the season, and began working kips in August even though the first competition is in November. None of this seems quite right to me. Am I overly worried, or am I right to be concerned?

 

[Natasha]

How many hours a week do the L1 and L2 preteams workout? If it is more than just 90 minutes a week, then yes, I would be concerned about 3 years of preteam and then doing 2 years at L3. That is 5 years of team without even competing at the 1st USAG required level. On the other hand, if pre team is more of an advanced rec class (as in only one class a week) then I guess I could understand.

 

[mommyof1]

L1 is 3.5 hours/week, L2 is 5 hours/week, and they often train 10.5 hours/week with L3 (old L4) for one year before competing. So the repeating L3s are in their third year training 10.5 hours/week. Most of these girls are also taking one-hour private lessons at least every other week.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Impossible to say, but looking above level 3 and 4, what is the rest of the team like? We do a lot of conditioning with out pre team, skills come easier with strength.

 

[Natasha]

L1 is 3.5 hours/week, L2 is 5 hours/week, and they often train 10.5 hours/week with L3 (old L4) for one year before competing. So the repeating L3s are in their third year training 10.5 hours/week. Most of these girls are also taking one-hour private lessons at least every other week.

Red flags if most of the girls do not have a kip with that amount of training! With that many hours for that many years, I would think most girls should have no problem doing L4 skills if the coaching is adequate. The private lessons on top of that....something's not right.

 

[leotardmakermum]

Our coaches tell us a number of things:
- Conditioning and the strength it brings makes learning skills much easier in the long run.
- Learning the right shapes makes perfecting skills much easier in the long run.
- Getting the basics right pays dividends when it comes to learning harder skills.
- Gymnastics is a marathon, not a sprint.

As a parent, I need to remember that what my daughter tells me does not necessarily equal a coach's recount of the same event. "All we did was..." compared to "We had them learning to..."

But also as a parent I see that my daughter loves trying new things. Trying new skills and learning new things keeps her interested.

I feel they do need a balance. Learning new things is exciting. But much of gymnastics is boring (to me!) repetition of the same things over and over again, so they may as well get used to it!

 

[mndl]

My daughter is 6 and on the pre-team. They go 6 hrs a week and train all the new level 3 skills plus do conditioning. Today bars was mostly trying to do muscle-ups(whatever they are) and then "walking" across the bars with there hands. Other days it's lots of pull ups and pull overs, but the definitely practice all the bar skills needed for competing next year. Same with beam, vault and floor. Some days for floor they work more on strength; like press handstands, holding handstands, other days they'll practice BHS and other elements of the floor routine. Vault is always lots of running drills, jumping on the vault and handstand flat back. They always practice handstands on the beam, plus turns, kicks while walking, jumps and other balance skills. It seems to me like it's a good mix and their teams always place high in completions. They don't have many girls repeat levels either.

 

[acm1289]

Strength is definitely important but my opinion is that gymnasts can do strength and stretching at home. Lots of time in the gym should be focused on drills and skills. Gymnastics does take a lot of strength but it also takes a lot of muscle memory and strength created by actually doing specific skills. Best way to work muscles and muscle memory for a pull over? Doing pullovers. For a backhandspring? By doing backhandsprings. If the class is over an hour then there is still plenty if time for strength AND for skills. Honestly though I think you should watch a whole class and talk to the coach to get an actual picture of what's going on.

 

[gymdog]

I think you should watch one practice first and see for yourself before you make any conclusions. None of that seems way out of the ballpark depending on circumstance, but there are a lot of variables that would be difficult to account for. It's definitely better for them to be doing conditioning on floor rather than scary back headsprings, for example. And perhaps they are working on press handstand drills and such but your daughter doesn't understand what it leads to.

It can be hard to compare progression among gyms. They might go more hours. We require skills to move out of rec that it sounds like aren't even on the program of your preteam. But we don't repeat compulsories and our kids may be a bit older (still under 10). But by age 10, maybe they're in the same place. Again, can't really tell without comparing full meet scores and kids later down the line.

 

[mouey77]

I would go watch. And based on that, I would ask the coach about the possibility of your child moving up next year to L3. I had similar frustrations and didn't voice them for quite a while, and I really wish I had spoken up sooner. But first see for yourself what the practice really looks like.

 

[mommyof1]

I will definitely watch a practice. I am 100% in support of plenty of conditioning and proper basics, but it seems that after more than a year on preteam and with 5 hours a week they should at least be doing a little bit of work that leads towards skills. Earlier this fall they did seem to have struck a nice balance between conditioning and learning the L3 skills, and then all the skill work just stopped. The conditioning has also gotten more basic--e.g., I haven't heard my daughter talk about working on press handstands recently.

The preteam coach was new last year, and she just took over the L3 team this fall. She has been progressing girls at a more individualized pace and has gotten a handful ready to compete a year or two more quickly than her predecessors, who are now coaching L4/L5 and helping with L3. In terms of the higher levels, the gym has one girl at L5 and one at L6 who look great and do very well in competition, but the rest of the team is not very impressive. The kip issues with the L3/L4 transition also worry me. I had been planning to stick with this gym through L3 and maybe L4 so my daughter could get a good foundation with this coach, and then investigate other gyms at that point if it seemed warranted.

 

[rjb123]

At my DD's gym, when she was in the developmental teams it was a lot of just conditioning and form. DD was five at the time and one of the coaches told me that what they wanted at that point was strength and body awareness. She said that skills came quickly and better when they had those things in place. She competed old four last fall and started working skills more seriously probably the winter/ spring prior to competing. I have to admit, I NEVER thought that she could get it all put together, especially at just turned 6 years old, but she did. Her coaches clearly have a method because all the girls "got it" and did very well. I might just watch a practice and maybe ask what the plan is for her- are they planning on having her competing next season, etc. GL!

 

[gymdog]

I will definitely watch a practice. I am 100% in support of plenty of conditioning and proper basics, but it seems that after more than a year on preteam and with 5 hours a week they should at least be doing a little bit of work that leads towards skills. Earlier this fall they did seem to have struck a nice balance between conditioning and learning the L3 skills, and then all the skill work just stopped. The conditioning has also gotten more basic--e.g., I haven't heard my daughter talk about working on press handstands recently.

The preteam coach was new last year, and she just took over the L3 team this fall. She has been progressing girls at a more individualized pace and has gotten a handful ready to compete a year or two more quickly than her predecessors, who are now coaching L4/L5 and helping with L3. In terms of the higher levels, the gym has one girl at L5 and one at L6 who look great and do very well in competition, but the rest of the team is not very impressive. The kip issues with the L3/L4 transition also worry me. I had been planning to stick with this gym through L3 and maybe L4 so my daughter could get a good foundation with this coach, and then investigate other gyms at that point if it seemed warranted.

Wait, they only have one level 5 and one level 6? No level 7 and up? How new is the gym?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Strength is definitely important but my opinion is that gymnasts can do strength and stretching at home. Lots of time in the gym should be focused on drills and skills. Gymnastics does take a lot of strength but it also takes a lot of muscle memory and strength created by actually doing specific skills. Best way to work muscles and muscle memory for a pull over? Doing pullovers. For a backhandspring? By doing backhandsprings. If the class is over an hour then there is still plenty if time for strength AND for skills. Honestly though I think you should watch a whole class and talk to the coach to get an actual picture of what's going on.

huh? what??

 

[leotardmakermum]

"Strength is definitely important but my opinion is that gymnasts can do strength and stretching at home. Lots of time in the gym should be focused on drills and skills."

Yeah, because all the gymnasts I know LOVE doing a gazillion chin ups, push ups, v snaps, sit ups, leg raises, rope climbs, etc. NOT! ;-)

If you relied on my gymnast to do her strength and conditioning at home, I'm sorry, but it wouldn't get done. It's not that she doesn't have big goals, it's just that I can't think of many kids who actually enjoy it (I'm sure there are some). It's the thing kids cheat on IN class, so how could you expect them to do it properly or enough at home?

I'm very glad that my gymnast does her strength and conditioning at gym.

 

[mouey77]

If someone is getting her kid to do strengthening and stretching at home, I would love to know what you are using to bribe her. We were told to have our DD do some conditioning at home (ha!). I already gave up. I'm too tired to nag. I have to save that energy for homework and keeping the house picked up.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

If someone is getting her kid to do strengthening and stretching at home, I would love to know what you are using to bribe her. We were told to have our DD do some conditioning at home (ha!). I already gave up. I'm too tired to nag. I have to save that energy for homework and keeping the house picked up.

===
No gym at home, that's our rule.

 

[acm1289]

I guess I'm biased because when I did gymnastics I preferred to do my strength at home where no one was yelling at me. Even when I was young I always did strength or stretching at home. Not to say it shouldn't be done at all at the gym but I don't think it should take up a whole practice.

 

[SXS524]

Slightly off topic but question for the coaches out there- how do you keep the gymnasts motivated to mainly condition during sessions? I mainly coach rec and sometimes it's a struggle to get them to do 10 minutes of conditioning

 

[mommyof1]

Wait, they only have one level 5 and one level 6? No level 7 and up? How new is the gym?

They have levels 7-9 and several 5s and 6s. Those two girls are just the only ones who seem to do well past L3.