Parents Different Practice Groups?

[3LittleGymmies]

Does your gym have different practice groups within each level based on ability? For example, our current gym has an "A" and "B" practice group. The "A" practice group are the girls who I am assuming the coaches think have more advanced skills/more polished skills. They work the same events, but the level of difficulty is higher in the "A" group. Most of those girls also have an extra practice each week. Our old gym did something similar, although it was less cleanly defined. It seems to be something that is typically kept on the "down low" and not really announced or talked about, although it's very obvious what's going on. For example, at our old gym, there were the "regular Level 5's" and then there were the Level 5's who worked out with the Level 6's. Some of the regular Level 5's had really good scores at meets, but the division seemed to have to do more with how much the coaches thought specific girls could be challenged or how much potential they had in the future. That group was pushed a lot harder and many of those girls went on to test for TOP's, skip levels, etc. Many of them were also really young. I am not sure if every gym has some degree of this or not. It does seem to ruffle some parent feathers, though. I am not sure if gyms can really avoid that, though. My daughter is in the "A" group that I mentioned above. Recently, a mom whose daughter is in the "B" group challenged the coach on why everyone wasn't invited to do the extra practice. The coach was kind of put between a rock and a hard place and had to let her daughter come. I can't say that I wouldn't be a little frustrated if my daughter was in the "B" group, but I don't know that I would want to talk her into something that she wasn't ready for or invited to, either. Hard stuff!

Does your gym have different practice groups within the levels? Do you think this is "wrong" or unfair to do? Do the parents/girls handle the division well?

 

[3LittleGymmies]

I should add... even though my daughter is in the "A" group.. there is even further division beyond that. A few of the girls from the "A" group do part of one practice each week with the next level up. My daughter is not one of them. I didn't even realize they did this (I don't really watch practices) until the other day when she told me about it and said that she asked her coach what she needed to fix in order to get to do that, too. I guess that one perk of all of this is that it keeps the girls motivated to work hard.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I think this is pretty typical, and it's basically trying to train to the level that the girls are at. I think it's a good thing. My daughter is in, I guess, what you could consider the A group for her level (goes some extra hours). However there are girls her age in the level above her. Heck there is even a young one two levels above her. So, it's not that she is on a fast track, she is just not quite ready to compete the next level but more advanced at this point than most of the girls competing at her level. As to the parent who talked to the coach, I think everyone is better off to not speculate that she "talked her into it." If they put in her the A group, then they made the decision that it was a good spot for her. I don't know too many coaches who let themselves be talked into things they don't want to do. They are willing to talk to gymnasts and parents for their input sometimes though. Maybe a kid who was on the fence a couple of months ago is doing great and would benefit now from the extra hours. I find it's best to focus on my own kid, as long as they are learning, uptraining and having fun then all is well....

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

They had done this one year at our old gym. There were 3 girls that were pulled out of their regular group and trained with the L7's twice a week, but trained with their regular group the other day. My DD was in that group and many parents went to the coaches to question why their kid was not in this group. I guess it mad enough parents mad that they stopped doing it the following spring. It seemed to the other parents like they were playing favorites because there was no rhyme or reason for who was chosen.

 

[kaloss]

Our gym kind of does this, dd is 6, level 3. She trains on tues/Thurs/sat. Tuesday/sat have the whole level 3 team. The "big girls" train on Wednesday without the little ones, and Thursdays are just for the little ones. Most of the "big girls" have their back handsprings, etc already. All the kids train the same number of hours, they just split the group for one day a week.

 

[LizzieLac]

Our gym has done similar things off an on depending on the needs of the kids. I am sure some parents ask why their child is not on the more advanced group...

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

Or gym sort of does this. Pre-competitive kids (so ages 5-8) are usually split by age, so every once in a while you'll see a 7 year old with the 8 or 9 year olds, etc. as their abilities match more. Sometimes the move is well received by the masses, sometimes not.

At age 9, the kids are generally split by skill, not necessarily level. There are some L8s in one group, and other L8s in another, same with L 5s, 6s, etc. I think it depends on the goals, ages, and fit with coaches at that point. But yes, it does work many parents up, as they don't necessarily see what the coaches do.

Is it fair? IMO, If you are dividing by skill, yes. Not all kids training a specific level are created equal, or are even at the same stage with the skills (one may barely have a giant, while another is a double back dismount away from being a full fledged l8)

We've been in this situation since DD was 7, and it is apparent that for some, their frustrations are only barely contained. Who cares if a 9 year old is training with teenagers and the head coach when her contemporaries are in a different group? I didn't request it, demand it, nor did she. It was the gym's decision of how to best run their program, and what they thought would be best for her.

It has caused some tension between her and her gym BFF. They got split up, and are generally in the same program. Her friend is happy for her, but wishes she had the same opportunity. But as the HC said, she can't hold one back because they want to stay together as friends, nor can that be a reason to move the other forward. She'll get her turn, and who knows, maybe one day the tables will be turned.

 

[KnowNuthin]

In the past I had two daughters in gymnastics and have been to three gyms as a result. I've seen a few strategies put in action, with one being the A/B grouping within levels, e.g. when my oldest was a (old) level 5, the girls were split into A & B squads with the A girls getting more advanced training. At that time my oldest was in the B group.

My youngest is still doing JO and at her gym they run a completely different strategy. The groups are labeled by letter, but the letter, itself, isn't necessarily an indicator of a gymnasts placing or level. It's a bit confusing, and I'll illustrate this be example: You could have a group (let's call it Y just for the heck of it) that consists of kids that will be competing levels 6, 7, and 8. They all train together and work 22 hours a week. Another group (we'll call it X), also consists of a mix of girls (maybe 7s and 8s) and they train 18 hours a week. X comes before Y in the alphabet, but the Y girls train longer and harder and seem to be on a faster track.

This, not surprisingly, has put some parents off. On top of that, it's not crystal clear what level your daughter will be competing. My youngest happens to be in one of the groups that trains the longest. I'm pretty sure she's going to be an 8 with some rumors that some of the girls in her group may advance to 9 mid-season (which may or may not include my daughter or just may be a false rumor).

I'm not sure if any other gym employs this training strategy.

 

[3LittleGymmies]

@Midwestmommy, I was actually sitting right next to the mom when she talked to the coach (it was during an open gym time) and it felt so awkward for the coach. So I'm not really speculating. The coach kept trying to tell her that her daughter has struggled and that they would watch her to see if she improves in certain areas, but the mom kept pushing about it and then suggested that in addition to her daughter, *everyone* might want to go to the extra practice so they should all be given the choice. The coach finally said that she can come if she really wants her to. It's very obvious that she's not ready to be there, though. The extra day is spent working on all optional skills and she has really been struggling and visibly frustrated, from what I have seen when I get there toward the end of practice. I feel badly for her . I am not judging the mom at all. I understand feeling like you want to fight for your child to get all of the chances she can get to shine or get ahead. There are times when I question why some girls get to do things that my daughter doesn't, and I have to bite my tongue and let the coaches do their job. It's not always easy! Anyway, I brought up this example to try to illustrate my question about whether it's typical to see a division (and if that division is "made known" or just plain obvious) and if it tends to cause jealousy/friction/whispers/hard feelings/etc. That's all .

 

[3LittleGymmies]

*One thing that I may have made confusing is that they are letting her come the extra day, but she was not moved to the "A" group. So it kind of doesn't even really make sense because if she's not ready to be in the A group, why would she be ready to be in a group even further beyond that? But really, this was just an example to illustrate my question and my question isn't really about that particular situation.

 

[skschlag]

My gym does not do this. But I do have some questions as we run into gyms that do this.

Doesn't it cause dischord amongst the team members? I know our levels are very cohesive, and truly are a team. Does the special treatment or consideration make teammates less supportive?

We do have a gym in our area that does this and it is very apparent. The kids in each group barely hang out together at all. and teh parents are very separate too. This strategy, if it is an apparent "A" "B" grouping just seems like it woudl really hurt morale.

Our team DOES divide kids, but they are flexible, fluid, day to day groupings. You just never know where you will be from day to day, and it can be number basedm, skill based or level based.

 

[IreneKa]

Ours is a smaller gym. The practices are by levels, and there aren't that many girls to be splitting them up into more groups. I'm not sure what happens at higher levels, as my DD is only in L2, but in our group we have L2 and L3 practice together twice a week, and there is one more practice on another day for just L3. Plus, there is an additional "optional" practice for both L2 and L3. Am I upset that DD wasn't placed in L3? Yes. Would I go to the coaches and insist that she still goes on additional day with L3? No. I understand that practice is for L3 only, and DD is not a L3 yet. We do always try to attend the optional practice, because we want DD to move up to L3 as soon as possible.

 

[LizzieLac]

Our gym is not huge. Our experience with this approach was that the level 5's last year had some repeaters and some first years. The repeaters were clearly more advanced than the first year girls (scores, skills, etc.) but they were not considered to be ready for level 6 at the beginning of the season. So there was a small group of 5 girls that were offered to stay to the end of the level 6 practice (the 5s ended earlier). So, they had what amounted to 2 extra hours of workout each week.

Well, by winter, enough of the other level 5 parents had asked why their gymmies were not offered the extra time as well that the coach had to open it up to all of them. I can honestly say that I don't think the girls themselves cared all that much about this "split" - the girls all got aling well and pulled for each other. In my observation, it came down to the parents.

 

[3LittleGymmies]

I really haven't noticed it causing an issue between the girls. I think they "know" what group they're in and why they're there, but they all seem friendly with one another and no one seems to think they're "better" than anyone else. I have witnessed the "A" group cheering on girls in the other group when they get a new skill. They're very sweet girls! I do think they are closer friends with the girls within their group, but that is probably just because that's who they are around.

 

[Deleted member 15064]

Veering slightly off topic, but I wanted to point out how much I appreciate/respect coaches who structure their gym the way they see fit and stick with it even in the face of parental pressure.

It must be hard. Parents are increasingly vocal, involved and supportive of their kids. It's impossible to please everyone, and in trying to we all know what happens - no one ends up satisfied.

My feeling is if you don't like a program, there is a rectangular hole in the wall calling your name. It sounds harsh, and I don't mean that parents shouldn't advocate for their kids, try to find solutions / answers before walking.
I also understand coaches who give in to the squeaky wheel. (And those who do so passive aggressively).

But when parents try to change a policy due to their own bias, or ask for special treatment to work around it, the rest of us lose a piece of respect for the program as a whole.

 

[GymMom67]

Our gym splits the girls into two groups. We just had the meet that qualified them to state and for the most part, the "A" group made it and the "B" group didn't. The only exception from the "A" group was one girl who just got moved into that group two or three weeks ago. They are just split up for the regular practices, though, at least at our level. They don't get extra practices. My DD is in what would be the "A" group and the main difference I have noticed is that they have been allowed to work on more advanced skills than the other group, because they haven't have to spend as much time with them on the skills for their level.

 

[happychaos]

Our gym does that to some degree, but I don't think they realign the groups often enough to really matter (once per year). Most often the workouts are identical. By the time they realign the groups, some in the "B" group have gotten way ahead, some from "A" group have fallen behind. So practically speaking, each group has some better, and some lesser performing girls. It's only been a few months since the groups were formed, and already it would be difficult for a newcomer to determine which was the "better" group.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

Kind of. Currently dd is in the L4/L5 combined training group. They are always split into 4s and 5s when they practice, because they are working on different things.
Within those groups, there is further division as far as kids who have skills and kids who are still working on the same skill. At bars for instance, one group (repeating 4s) already are pretty good at high bar kip and tap swings, so they go to one set of bars and work on the entire routine or work toward free hip / handstand etc, while the "newbies" work on perfecting their high bar kip and tapswings at another set of bars. That way the newbies aren't holding the more experienced kids back, everyone gets to work at what they need to and it is a "rite of passage" of sorts to be allowed to join the more experienced group. It is simply skill based, if you can do skill X and Y you get to go to the other bar and work on skill Z, simple but effective as the girls are always striving to work harder and accomplish more.
Luckily so far this year it has been fairly consistent that the newbies have been somewhat alike as far as getting their skills so nobody has been totally left out and by themselves with Everyone else in the "A" group...
There is no extra practice day or extra hours for any of them though, if they are in this group they're all training at the same time.
Dd is one of the newbies and has only been in team since this spring. It's amazing to see the progress that has been made by her and the other newbies since spring, things I watched the other girls do In awe are now things my dd can do! I never would have thought she'd be able to do them in such a relatively short time..!

The newbies to L4 did come from the old L4new L3 group, and the same thing happened there: as they learned certain skills, they were put in a different group. At the end of summer, those in the "A" group were asked to try the L4/5group while all the "B" group became L3. The "A" group consisted of the repeating L4s and a few of the newbies (dd included), all the other newcomers became 3s. Totally skill based and the girls knew which group they belonged to. No hard feelings, no drama, it was very clear cut as far as where the line went and what skills were needed to be in the "A" group.

 

[thefellowsmom]

Our gym does that to some degree, but I don't think they realign the groups often enough to really matter (once per year). Most often the workouts are identical. By the time they realign the groups, some in the "B" group have gotten way ahead, some from "A" group have fallen behind. So practically speaking, each group has some better, and some lesser performing girls. It's only been a few months since the groups were formed, and already it would be difficult for a newcomer to determine which was the "better" group.

I would say we are in this camp but they haven't realigned the groups in ages. There may have been a point where there were appearance that one group was better or one group got more resources but that time is long gone. It feels like something will need to shift soon, but who knows what that will look like. Oh how I love the ambiguity and uncertainty of this sport

 

[gymisforeveryone]

In here the gymnasts are put in different groups based on age and ability. The competition level doesn't matter so much. When the kids first start on competitive squad the groups are formed by age. We now have one group for kids born 2007 and one for those born 2006. They are called pre-competitive groups. Then we have two groups for kids born 2006 and 2005 and they are formed by ability. The "A" group goes 9 hours a week and "B" group goes 6 hours. Then we have three groups for kids born 2002-2004. The "A" group aims to become elite and they practice 15 hours a week, the "B" group is for those who are talented but we are not really sure if they are elite material and they go 12 hours a week. The "C" group is more like "for fun" team for those with less talent and they go 6 hours a week.

Then we have girls born 2001-1998 (in optional levels) and they are divided into four different groups. The "A" and "B" groups are for girls who compete in elite squad and the "B" and "C" groups are for those who compete in the regular squad.

So we don't have level teams like you have in US. I think this works better because the talented ones can be fast tracked this way more easily and the kids with less ability can practice together less seriously and lower hours. And they all get to be with kids their age, so 7 year old's don't have to listen to 13 yo kids talking about "big girls' stuff" and 13 year olds are not forced to play silly games with 7 year olds.