WAG Home conditioning to help with vault

[BlairBob]

Ok, it took a bit of time to find some watt values for Olympic Lifting and sprinting and jumping.

Evidence for this comes from male sprinters (n = 6, 100 m time 10.75 s) in whom power production (as estimated using inverse dynamics) on a force plate 14 m from the sprint start exceeded 3000 W in hip extension, 1500 W in knee extension and 3000 W in ankle plantarflexion (Johnson & Buckley, 2001).

http://gdmpotter.blogspot.com/2013/01/fast-twitch-fibres-sprinting-jumping_4.html

In jumping, high power outputs are evident in the last 150 ms of the countermovement jump (CMJ) in physically active males (Harman et al., 1990) and peak power values of ~6400 W are typical in male University American Football and Track & Field athletes (n = 7 & 6, respectively) (Nuzzo et al., 2008

same article

http://digitalcommons.georgiasouthern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1123&context=etd

Vertical Jump Power 4417.09 W 576.66 W
40 Yard Power 5248.03 W 592.98 W

http://elitetrack.com/article_files/newtonian-sprinting.pdf
Given that the average mass for the sprinters is 74.2kg this would amount to 3242.5W or 3277.5W with the mass of the Newtonian model at maximal velocity which is far greater than the power values calculated for our model of approximately 1780 watts at the same distance of 35-40m from the start.

http://www.csulb.edu/~atlastwl/PowProducOWL_MSSE1980.pdf page 59
60kg lifter 82.5kg lifter
Snatch Pull 1592 2173
Clean Pull 1583 2123
Upper Snatch Pull 2858 3634
Upper Clean Pull 2463 3475
Jerk Drive 2627 3385

http://cdn.criticalbench.com/wp-con...garhammer-olympic-lifting-vs-powerlifting.pdf pg 85

You'll see more data of 2nd pull/jerk thrust wattage numbers that can eclipse the above but some of it is also dependent on the weight class.

http://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/2013/03/11/sprinters/

Jump data of Sprinters to Olympic Weightlifters to Powerlifters

Why a blend of squats and plyometrics provides the best gain in power production.
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/A..._of_Six_Weeks_of_Squat,_Plyometric_and.6.aspx

Examination of the mean scores shows that the S group increased 3.30 centimeters in vertical jump, the P group increased 3.81 centimeters and the SP group increased 10.67 centimeters. The results indicate that both S and P training are necessary for improving hip and thigh power production as measured by vertical jumping ability.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Blairbob, please don't misunderstand my point. i understand not only yours, but coach78 also.

my point is that these things DON'T work for gymnasts. plyo, YES! holding dumbells while walking in to half squats in repetitions forwards and backwards, yes!

weightlifting, no. powerlifting, no. each sport has sport specific training issues.

this is what i meant about bells and whistles.

if you and coach78 thinks this is what you must do to have a 20 element bar routines, all the 'stuff'' on beam, a floor routine with 2 dble dbles in it and a vault that rivals Biles or Maroney...well go knock your socks off.

great article by the way...

 

[mobeans]

As the OP I just want to chime and and say THANK YOU to all of you who have taken the time to respond. I really respect and appreciate the different opinions (albeit somewhat confusing for this mom )...Like someone mentioned DD is just a 7 yo L3 so I'm not going to do anything crazy. I really like the idea of jumping onto something knee high and progressing to waist high. I remember when they did that as part of conditioning when she was L1.

We have a pool so swimming is part of our daily regime in the summer

Becauseisaid, DD's run has improved and she is running in a gymnast way (not sure how else to explain it!). However I think she is naturally slowing down before the springboard. Her form is pretty good, tight body but I'm pretty sure the block is her issue.

profmom, I had to laugh, DD *did* look like she was chasing butterflies not that long ago She used to have this prancy run, which had me convinced she should be a dancer not a gymnast! But after her insistance on doing gym only and a successful L2 season (take that for what it's worth, I know a lot of people don't value the lower levels), she has worked hard on that run. All I can say at this point is she has come a long way but still has a long way to go

 

[BlairBob]

weightlifting, no. powerlifting, no. each sport has sport specific training issues

if you and coach78 thinks this is what you must do to have a 20 element bar routines, all the 'stuff'' on beam, a floor routine with 2 dble dbles in it and a vault that rivals Biles or Maroney...well go knock your socks off.

No, I do not. Routine endurance is something very specific in itself that is not just as simple as CrossFit Fran as the CF founder would have you believe. Snatching BW and CJ 1.3xBW are not integral toward an Elite level gymnast, or just a National level gymnast.

I am not a proponent of either for any gymnast of mine. If you have time to be doing soccer or swimming, you could be doing gymnastics. Meh. Kind of depends on the kid.

I said WEIGHT TRAINING, Weightlifting is a sport in the Olympics. Not the Olympic Lifts or Powerlifting (I won't even go there and I don't feel like talking about WestsideBarbell, Louie Simmons, Conjugate method as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Next up we can talk about the box squat, geared lifting, and AAS/PED's).

I see no need for a gymnast to snatch or clean or jerk. Snatching has a risk to shoulders and elbows, cleans risk the wrists. Jerks...nothing wrong with pressing, push pressing or learning to jerk but jerking is probably not necessary. Power cleans or Power Snatches have their places but I would rather any gymnast just work on RDL's and Snatch/Clean pull variants.

Sprinting and Jumping movements aka Plyo have already been proven to be enough for speed work. However, bare in mind that all the Plyo work aka the Shock Method by Verkhovshansky required a base of a 1.5xBW back squat for lower body. Plyo for upper body never had a set limit but years ago I went to a great clinic by Mark Young on plyometrics for upper body. The same thing goes. Without a base level of strength, plyometrics can be a waste of time. As well, a base level of strength is integral for joint health in regards to exposure to high forces (such as in tumbling and vaulting and the shoulders).

There is a very limited amount of time in a gymnastics schedule to any of this. However, some of this is better than none. And doing BW lunges back and forth on the floor or air squats till boredom. This isn't Ultraman or CrossFit.

Using pressing as an assistance movement to BW press movements as well as barbell training as a supplement to lower body development is fine.

They can to into Weightlifting, Powerlifting, CrossFit, or Bodybuilding, or Cheerleading after they retire.