WAG Horrible first L6 meet

[beamer]

DD (11) had her first L6 meet this past weekend. The meet started right on time and ended in good stead. The venue was open, warm and well-lit with plenty of seating that allowed for a clear view of all the apparatus. It was filled with talented, polite and friendly gymnasts, respectful and supportive parents, and quality coaching.

So what's the problem?

My poor kid. Accckkk.

In her first meet, DD got an 8.2 on vault, an 8 on floor, a 7.5 on beam and a 6.4 on bars! She missed the walkover on beam (both feet) and claimed to not know she was supposed to get up and try the skill again. So she was deducted more than for just the missed element. She fell apart on bars completely (her wonderful coach had her take a few breaths and re-start the routine after a kip-cast so big she lost all control of her core!), and then missed the squat-on on the second go-round. Usually bars and beam are her best events.

The real problem is not this first meet though. The real problem is that historically DD's form issues (delineated here one too many times!) are so big that she cannot afford to miss skills. When she does, her scores slip into the basement. So I and her coaches (all of whom have the patience of Job) can anticipate a whole season of this and probably a repeat of the level next year.

I then develop an overwhelmingly powerful urge to talk to her about bent knees, flexed feet, changes she could affect to make gymnastics more rewarding...for all of us (even though I know it just needs to be rewarding for her).

Does anyone have/work with a kid like this? What techniques have you used to keep your trap shut (short of a muzzle and/or large volumes of cheap wine) and leave the coaching to the coaches? Does it get better or worse in optional levels for the form-challenged gymnast?

Help!

p.s. Please no Xcel suggestions: I have suggested this to her too many times. She just wrinkles her brow, looks at me darkly and refuses all further discussion!

 

[MaryA]

Level 6 is notoriously tough. It was her first meet. She had some fluky errors. And the scores weren't that bad.

As for keeping your mouth shut, come up with a few positive things to say... "Wow, your ROBHSBT has really come a long way!" or whatever. Ask if she had fun. Comment on the contents of her goodie bag. Then change the subject to where you're going to go for lunch/dinner/ice cream. If she wants to decompress about the meet and talk about it, let her. Be supportive. Ask if she tried her hardest.

Believe me, some thing have come out of my mouth after meets that my daughter will be talking about to her therapist when she grows up. But I think I'm getting better...

 

[gymgal]

I'm with Mary on this one. Plan ahead of time and have some choice phrases ready to go that are positive and don't reflect too specifically on her performance (that BT is really coming along).

having said that, I am right there with you about having trouble containing my comments after a meet. It gets a little easier every year but I still have to work on keeping myself in check. Last season I got pretty good at following a pattern of hugging her, "you looked beautiful out there - you didn't look as nervous this time" (nerves were a huge stumbling block for her), I mention 2-3 three really good parts of her routine and then I stop talking and let her bring up whatever she wants to. Sometimes, she would talk right away. Other times, she was more reserved. During those times, we would discuss accomplishments of the other teammates. I would try to stick to teammates who had shown some difficulties in the past but shined this time - sort of a pep talk without discussing dd's own performance.

 

[LizzieLac]

I'm sorry things did not go so well. It happens to everyone at some point. I agree with trying to focus on the positive things - what she did well. With my DD, she dwells enough on the negative that I really have to try to move her off of that and start thinking about what she did well.

The other thing I believe, but only sometimes say, is that messing up on things helps you know where to focus because you know your weakness. That is a hard concept for kids to hear, but it bares some truth.

The other thing is to remind her that she has x weeks of practice until her next meet and that she will surely resolve these issues with hard work.

After all of that, I hug my DD and tell her how proud I am of her for getting out there and putting all of the hardwork in.

 

[gymmomof1]

:grouphug: a hug for you! Level 6 will give most parents gray hair. I totally am on board with what MaryA said. My suggestion is to See if she can come up with one goal she wants to shoot for. I remember one year for States one of the higher level girls set a goal of just doing better at States than she did the year before. That stuck with my dd and she just wanted to do better than the previous year-didnt matter by how much. Hoping for a better 2nd meet

 

[wallinbl]

First question I ask DD is if she had fun. Sometimes it's a big yes, other times she starts listing her deductions. Even when she starts listing her deductions, a "but did you have fun" gets her to admit she had fun.

Yeah, it's tempting to ask about the things that went wrong, but I've realized she's fully aware of them and already processing how to work on them.

 

[UnoMas]

Well, wine is usually my first choice.
Seriously though, L6 is tough, it was her first meet, and she was probably really nervous. My DD (also 11) has her first L6 meet in a few weeks and I am dreading the scores. I don't think you have to resign yourself to a season of bad scores at this point. She will improve. My suggestion would be to hope for improvement at each meet, even if it is just a little bit. As far as keeping comments to yourself, I understand. I have had this problem with my older DD before. I always tell her "good job" and ask "did you have fun" because if the answer is ever "no" then I know the scores are affecting her. She has never ever said that she has not had fun at a meet. I try really hard to be quiet and eventually she will usually talk a little bit about a bad meet, and she will talk more about a good one. The thing is, these girls work so hard just to be in the sport. They give up so much. The least thing we can do is be supportive of what they are able to do, and not focus on what we wish they could do. It's tough to see lower scores at the beginning of the year when we are all hoping for greatness...but scores do usually go up and we just have to be patient and wait. And drink wine.

 

[MaryA]

And drink wine.

Good advice!

 

[GymnastJoy]

Hugs to you and dd. A first meet at a new level is tough. You don't know how scoring is and which skills will result in big deductions (at least I don't). And she really did OK. Beam was not bad considering she had a fall and did not get credit for a major skill. And at least she knows what to do if she ever doesn't get at least one foot on beam for back walkover. And an 8.2 for floor at level 6 is good for around here first meet level 6. Bars had some mistakes that without falls will certainly increase. And not sure how her vault scores were at level 5. In my state, her AA would qualify her to move on to states. She did get in the 30s which is very respectable. I agree with previous posters that so long as there is improvement and she is enjoying herself in the sport to try and keep your feelings to yourself. We all know how hard that can be. And most importantly, try not to predict her future in the sport (repeating levels, etc) based on this meet. I have been guilty of that and was shocked at what started off as a mediocre level became my dd's best yet. And the momentum built from there. Keep the faith and hope to hear the next meet report with not only good news about the venue but about your dd's performance.

 

[ZZMom]

Definitely wine! A muzzle would be helpful but not socially acceptable. We have four athletes. Our first was our dd E and I'm afraid that we practiced a bit on her. I would love to be able to take back a lot of post meet talks. With our second and third athletes (hockey players) we have stuck FIRMLY to "Did you have fun?" and "It looked like you worked hard out there." This approach can be more challenging with gymnastics but I'm committed to sticking to it with ZZ as well.

Hang in there. I know how hard it is.

ZZMom

 

[profmom]

Wait, did you take my DD to that meet? Seriously, that sounds a lot like our experience last year, though bars and floor, not beam, were her personal bugaboos. She landed every single front tuck she competed low, except for the ones she sat.

Here's what worked for us. It's her sport, not mine. Yes, my heart bleeds for her when it goes badly and I can tell she's unhappy, but I never let myself get more upset than she is, and when she's upset, my role is to support her, not give her advice. But the biggest thing that worked was encouraging her to set her own goals for each event at each meet. These goals could not be related to scores or medals. They were things like doing a good flyaway, connecting her bars routine, getting her arms higher up on her full turn, or getting more height on her tucks. They had to be aspirational (not things she was doing completely consistently) but not out of reach. This made all the difference for her -- she could walk away from a meet where her AA was below 33 and still feel good about what she had accomplished. I also asked her to write down in her meet notebook something -- anything -- that she felt good about after each routine.

If you can invest in her goals, you'll find yourself cheering right along with her because she had an awesome dismount on beam, even if the score goes up as an 8.1. And everyone will feel a lot better on the long car ride home.

It will get better. It's still very early in the season! All good thoughts for you and your DD.

 

[Bajanswife]

I can sympathize. I don't have a level 6 (yet), but my DD sounds just like yours in terms of her form, and it's the same thing for us - when she messes up her skills it really, really hurts her score because of all the other little deductions she was getting anyway due to bad form. DD is very powerful, but she doesn't have a good handle on her core yet and she lets her back arch way too much. She also doesn't have a good feel for when her knees are slightly bent. Her first level 5 meet is coming up and I'm kind of dreading the scores. She ended level 4 so well in April with all events over 9 and a 37.25 AA, which was fantastic considering her form breaks. It's going to be tough for her to see low scores again after such a high. And I'm not sure when she'll compete again (it'll either be December or April, or if we come into a windfall maybe February) so she may not have a chance to redeem herself for a while.

I can also empathize with trying to keep your mouth shut! I like to discuss the meet with her afterwards (she's happy to do so) but I have to be careful that I don't sound like her coach! I don't want her to feel that she's disappointing me in addition to her coach and herself - that's a lot of pressure.

 

[beamer]

Wow!

You guys are great! I feel better already.

It also helps that there was an early-morning bars workout at the gym and I can see what she is capable of. Now we'll just have to wait and see what she can bring on at meets!

My job is to be supportive and keep my mouth shut. My job is to be supportive and keep my mouth shut. My job is to...

 

[my4buffaloes]

I might be in the minority here and I definitely try to let the coaches do the coaching, but I do mention things to my dd that I notice. For instance I have been at the gym every week during her vaulting rotation. After watching week after week of her going over the table with her feet at least 2 feet apart I kindly asked her about it. She said she didn't know her feet were apart and that no one had ever told her! I don't know whether I believe that or not, but clearly if they did tell her it didn't make an impact because she doesn't remember ever being told that before. And there are so many things wrong with her vault that maybe there were trying to fix other things instead.

So while we have to be careful, I don't believe in never saying anything. As for after a meet having her watch a video of it will help her understand what went wrong - at least it does for my dd. She always notices stuff that make the scoring clearer. For me it has to be a pretty big mistake (like the feet 2 feet apart on vault) for me to notice it. LOL so I rarely say anything negative. Sometimes though - I think it can be helpful if done right.

 

[beamer]

Thank you my4buffaloes.

Interestingly, after being encouraged to do so numerous times by people within the gym and without, I did film DD -- for the first time ever -- at this meet. In retrospect, it was probably a bad decision to film her first meet at a new level. When I was watching the videos a couple days after the meet (and failing miserably at stifling a few well-placed comments about straight legs and flexed feet), she politely took the video camera from me, erased all the footage and asked that I "never film again."

So that is my other new mantra: I will never film again, I will never film again, I will never...

 

[aamake]

I feel your pain too. My daughter is competing 6 this year & it is a tough level! I have learned over this last year that my daughter really knows where she messed up and doesn't need me to remind her about it. I think she feels that instead of focusing on the hard work and all the skills that went well, I only notice the stuff that was wrong when I mention anything. So after the meet, I talk about what she is hungry for, where does she want to eat, and that I am very proud of her~ no matter how she scores. I think this leads to less anxiety because she knows she isn't going to be hounded. The girls want to do well. I am trying to leave the other to her coaches.

Also~ scoring for 6 is way different than 5, I've noticed. My daughter actually won beam at a meet with only an 8.9! The scores aren't that bad for this tricky level.

 

[Bajanswife]

LOL I film every meet because DH has never gotten to see her compete even once, and there are other family members and friends that like to see her routines from time to time. She watches herself when I play it back for others. We have spoken objectively (not negatively) during playback about where the deductions probably came from and I do think it helps her. Also, her best friend was very afraid of ROBHS when they first started learning them, and she was convinced that her head was going to touch the ground. Her mom had managed to film her getting one done and it really helped her to see just how far away from the ground her head was. After that she lost a lot of her fear. Watching yourself can be very, very valuable. But obviously the gymnast has to be prepared for what she sees and be willing to use that information. I can see how it might be tough to watch a video of yourself doing something badly too soon after the fact, while it's still fresh and still hurtful though.

 

[iwannacoach]

I like the idea of letting you dd "have" her own gymnastics experience, but don't fall in line with the idea that you need to "keep your mouth shut" to accomplish that. Your stress from the first meet isn't that your dd did poorly, but rather that her meet didn't go well for her. There's nothing wrong with feeling bad about her meet as long as you're feeling bad about how she had to absorb the feelings she had after bars and beam. There's a lot of drama that goes into a "first meet", and a couple of falls can really send a kid reeling, so you had, and did, tread lightly.....good job.

The problem you need to help her with is her form. Her coaches can only do so much with reminders, but it's up to her to embrace the notions that she's capable of good form, can raise her scores by making it a priority, but most of all.....can have so much more success and consistency with her skills by doing them with good form.

Most kids, parents, and even some coaches see good form as an entity, in and of itself, that raises scores by eliminating deductions for bent knees, flexed toes, arched backs, and the bent elbows caused by arching. What's missing is an appreciation for the simplicity of movement that good form brings to the gymnasts efforts.

It works like this.......

The kids learn skills through a process that usually ends in lots of repetition to refine the skill and to build consistency through muscle memory. Most of us only have a certain capacity to remember things, as there's a limit to how much we can ask of our selves, and the same is true of our muscles. The challenge imposed by poor form is that a variable is introduced by every deviation from straight legs, pointed toes, tight core positions, correct head positions, and straight arms. That means that poor form requires a kid to learn how to move through a clear hip that accomodates a different distribution and placement of body mass, and that child will have to learn many variations of the skill.....one for slightly bent legs, one for severely bent legs, another for bent legs with an arched back, with bent arms, with legs flopping around, head sticking out...........It can get to the point where a child can only attempt the skill and hope for the best because they simply don't have the mental and/or physical capacity to learn fifteen different versions of a clear hip.

The only way out of this dilemma is for the kids to buy into the concept that form, while adding to their task, will simplify the task in a significant way and make it so much easier to learn and have fun with skills that suddenly become easy to do. It's really that simple. Good form and body positions allow the kids to concentrate their learning on skills that offer the same challenge each time, rather than the fifteen variable challenges created by form and position deviations.

I don't know how you can frame the concept for your dd, but here's how one mommy did it. She constanly put things her dd used in different places, making even the simple task of getting a cup for water a burden, and she changed it every day for several days. Her dd got upset with her mother after 3-4 days and told her to stop changing things around so she could count on things being where they were supposed to be. Mom changed things back to the way they were and a couple of days later had a fun chat with her dd about what the whole experience was about, and related it to how consistency makes things easier....even if it took a couple of hours to put things back in order.

So while you should "keep your mouth shut" about her "bad meet", you could think about the form/consistency/burden conundrum, and find a way to help your dd come to the reality that she's spending a whole lot of gymnastics bucks and not getting what she wants for "her money".

 

[wallinbl]

I have video of every meet, in large part because many family members like to see it and so they go up on YouTube as private videos. DD actually watches herself back and comments on her deductions. I think that has grown on her over time, though and wasn't something she cared for at first (though her curiosity was such that she couldn't resist watching). The upshot of watching it back is learning that you do make mistakes, they're okay, and they tell you what to work on in order to improve.

 

[B&M's mom]

My 12 year old has politely (for a preteen) told me not to tell her what her issues are, she already knows. So, my comments are pretty much limited to commenting on the good and letting her coaches break down her mistakes. Videoing is also only allowed if she doesn't have to watch it. In all the years of gymnastics, she's only watched her own routines once, after a horrible meet. That caused more trauma than the bad meet so now I don't even ask her if she wants to watch the video. I figure that I'll have a good inventory of meets for her senior presentation (if she gets that far).