Parents How do you feel about 100% medals placements?

[raenndrops]

If anyone really really really cares, I'd guess most state meets keep consistent judging panels for each level, so you can look online and see who got the tippy top score in the level on each event and AA, and those people can be entitled to call themselves the uberchampions.

Lol, at Y Nationals, they started having your "uberchampions" for any level that had multiple sessions or enough gymnasts.
This year, the rules state: "The highest All-Around score per level regardless of age and session will receive an additional award at the final awards ceremony for that level. Providing there are more than 50 in the level or more than one session of the level."
I know YG will NOT get this, but it is still cool to think about.

 

[profmom]

And my point was how meaningful is it with so many kids getting medal.

My Dad in other state. Wow, she got 2nd place in the whole state......

Umm Dad calm down, don’t be telling the folks at breakfast she one of top 2 in the state, there were 20 kids in her group. .........

Let's take it to its logical conclusion then. A Level 5 state champion isn't a real state champion because there are other girls, possibly even her age, who are doing higher level gymnastics. Even the L10 uberchampion may have elites in her state who are no longer competing JO.

The medals have the meanings you put on them. Nothing more and nothing less. And I still fail to see what people get out of telling others that their medals are meaningless and worthless and a signal of all that's wrong with America. Don't think your kids won't pick up on this attitude. Some of what I've loved best about my kids' meets is watching them be really happy for teammates who've managed to eke out a few medals during a tough season. If you have a little one, enjoy these days when getting a medal, even a tenth place one, can make them happy about what they did in a meet even if a routine didn't go well. It won't be that way forever if they stick with it.

(And once again, I think a lot of the complaining would go away if meets distributed awards more quickly and efficiently once scores are verified. We were at a boys' meet last weekend that did 50% placement and 100% AA. Our session had four levels, each of which had at least two divisions. I have time stamps on my photos. The last competitor finished at around 7:15. The last team banner was presented at 8:08. Nirvana!)

 

[NutterButter]

My Dad in other state. Wow, she got 2nd place in the whole state......

Umm Dad calm down, don’t be telling the folks at breakfast she one of top 2 in the state, there were 20 kids in her group. .........

And we enjoy our wins when we get them. We also understand perspective.

Out of curiosity - when is it acceptable for Out of state Dad to brag about his granddaughter?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Out of curiosity - when is it acceptable for Out of state Dad to brag about his granddaughter?

He brags all the time.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

And I still fail to see what people get out of telling others that their medals are meaningless and worthless and a signal of all that's wrong with America.
)

I say keep perspective and we enjoy our wins. And it gets turned into meaningless and worthless.

Don’t put words in my mouth. And make gray into black or white.

And of course “over” rewarding is not a good thing. Given your stance on grades I’m surprised you would disagree. But that’s a thread on its own.

Back to the original question of 100% placement medals. No it’s too much. Top 3, maybe five is enough.

 

[skschlag]

Back to the original question of 100% placement medals. No it’s too much. Top 3, maybe five is enough.

I guess, for me, in an age group of 80 kids, going out 10-20 is not bad. My son has some 12th places that are way more meaningful to him than 1st or 2nd. It hasn't made him want medals for performing. He does it for him, and loves it. The medals are just a token of his hard work. He hangs them all up in his room, and then moves on to the next thing.

 

[profmom]

LDW, your interpretation of over-rewarding is not the definitive normative standard (which this thread and many others show is highly contested). Further, it depends on accepting the assumption that the medal itself is the only signal that matters.

The analogy to grading fails entirely, as there is no analog to medals. Grades are grades and I call 'em like I see 'em. Just like a judge (though if I were a judge, I'd be the one who's notoriously strict on cast angles). I don't rank my students. If all of them somehow manage to meet the standard for an A, I'll happily put that in my excel sheet.

You really see NO difference between five medals in a division of eight athletes and five medals in a division of thirty? Eighty? Whatever. That's why USAG has thresholds as a percent rather than a number.

 

[atlnon]

You really see NO difference between five medals in a division of eight athletes and five medals in a division of thirty? Eighty? Whatever. That's why USAG has thresholds as a percent rather than a number.

I think Top 3 or Top 20%, whichever is higher, is a good approach. For the typical 15 to 20 kids per age group, that will be Top 3 to 4 getting awards. 80 kids in one age group would be Top 16. That's a lot better than awarding 40 kids.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I think Top 3 or Top 20%, whichever is higher, is a good approach. For the typical 15 to 20 kids per age group, that will be Top 3 to 4 getting awards. 80 kids in one age group would be Top 16. That's a lot better than awarding 40 kids.

Much more reasonable

When you start awarding the middle and further. It dilutes the achievement. You are essentially rewarding average for a given event/time/period.

Just my perspective.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

You really see NO difference between five medals in a division of eight athletes and five medals in a division of thirty? Eighty? Whatever. That's why USAG has thresholds as a percent rather than a number.

Again you are putting words in my mouth.

I understand USAG thresholds a percentage. So lets work from there. 50% plus one is over kill in my opinion.

If you want to get all literal about my 3 to 5 placements. Dial the percentage back to top 20 to 30%. Have a minimum amount of kids per group. And yes before you tease out well what if there are less then the minimum crud, there are always exceptions. We have been to meets where a group is so small they only do 1st place or top 2 places.

Smaller division you award out to 30 % so a group of ten athletes its top 3. And dial the percentage back as the groupings get larger............. Of course you can make it work on percentage.

And as it exists now there are too many medals/places "awarded".

Regarding the grade thing. I was not talking about how a teacher/professor determines the grade. Personally I think if you meet the expectations of the grade you get the grade. If the whole class does A work, they all get As. Not a fan of limiting the amount of As given per class. And if 90 is where the A line in the sand is an 89.4 is a B+

I was speaking of rewarding children for report cards. Again a whole other thread but is about external rewards. I'm pretty consistent.

 

[profmom]

I don't think you and I are actually all that far apart in terms of how we'd do it if we were setting up a meet -- I'd have age groups either broken out by year if it didn't create really awkward sizes (i.e., as you see in some boys' meets where there are 50 guys in the 13-14 year old group and five in the 15+) or in even groupings of 15-20, and I'd probably go out to between 1/3 and 2/5 for event and AA medals. The difference is that I just don't get wound up if they do more because I don't think it really matters.

As for grades, sorry I misunderstood, but again, you pose a bad analogy. I don't pay my kids for scores or medals or hit routines at meets and I don't pay them for grades. The analogy would be if I made up medals or other rewards to give my kids after their meets for additional external validation of their accomplishments.

I fail to see how the third-place child is injured by the recognition of the tenth-place child, aside from the extra time it takes to acknowledge the tenth-place child. Why is there so much moral investment in the percentage of children who get recognized, especially when they are too young to understand or look it up on meetscores themselves? They only care about it and think it's a big deal if their parents or teammates do. And if giving the seven-year-old, tenth-place child a medal makes a tough day a little easier to swallow, I'm OK with that. They'll figure it out eventually.

 

[raenndrops]

I think Top 3 or Top 20%, whichever is higher, is a good approach. For the typical 15 to 20 kids per age group, that will be Top 3 to 4 getting awards. 80 kids in one age group would be Top 16. That's a lot better than awarding 40 kids.

Y Nationals does 3 age groups for the level per session (XB-XP and L1-L7, if there are enough gymnasts to warrant 3 age groups) and awards top 1/3 or top 6... whichever is more ... so approximately 1/9 of the gymnasts are awarded on each event and AA. L8 and the combined L9/10 are different... 2 age groups and awarding is different, but still not a lot.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I don't think you and I are actually all that far apart in terms of how we'd do it if we were setting up a meet -- I'd have age groups either broken out by year if it didn't create really awkward sizes (i.e., as you see in some boys' meets where there are 50 guys in the 13-14 year old group and five in the 15+) or in even groupings of 15-20, and I'd probably go out to between 1/3 and 2/5 for event and AA medals. The difference is that I just don't get wound up if they do more because I don't think it really matters.

As for grades, sorry I misunderstood, but again, you pose a bad analogy. I don't pay my kids for scores or medals or hit routines at meets and I don't pay them for grades. The analogy would be if I made up medals or other rewards to give my kids after their meets for additional external validation of their accomplishments.

I fail to see how the third-place child is injured by the recognition of the tenth-place child, aside from the extra time it takes to acknowledge the tenth-place child. Why is there so much moral investment in the percentage of children who get recognized, especially when they are too young to understand or look it up on meetscores themselves? They only care about it and think it's a big deal if their parents or teammates do. And if giving the seven-year-old, tenth-place child a medal makes a tough day a little easier to swallow, I'm OK with that. They'll figure it out eventually.

You are correct. We aren’t that far apart.

Beyond making the awards unbearably long I personally could careless. And I have said with the younger ones it’s fine.

My issue is in the higher levels, some of it is marketing. It’s for the parents who want to “see” a touchable result and make a claim. For the checks they are writing. There are many a parent put their like Dad of one of my daughters teammates.

She was a bottom finisher in the lower levels. Rarely did she get bling, nearly never a top 3 finish. And her Dad was like why keep goingif there is nothing to show for it. And this man is a professional athlete (yes boggles the mind). She just loves gym and her friends. Fortunately mom overruled Dad. And folks like my husband who would have the “really, you think that’s it” conversation with the dad. She now blossoming in Optionals and getting her share of bling.

You even have the parents who say for the price of this meet there better be really nice medals..... or even trophies.

Again, in this country/area because it’s the only one I’m familiar with some of this give medals is because otherwise the parents won’t write checks and that affects revenue.

I get it, it is what it is. And I find it irritating to sit at a meet longer for marketing. Life goes on.... only a few more years of this and we’ll be on to something else.

 

[meganliz77]

While I do feel the United States, in general, over awards kids. I tend to agree that any kid who stays in gym awhile is not motivated because they receive a medal just for trying. My ds sees his medals fall into two categories, the ones that matter and the other ones. He knows when he earned something vs. themedt placed our way too far. I also wish that 100% all around meant only those who competed all around. Nothing like getting an AA medal when you scratched events. My kid is aware when he did his best too, sure he’d like his best to be enough to beat others, but that does not always happen. His motivation to continue is not from medals earned but from wanting to be better.

One of the hardest working gymnasts I know, rarely finds herself earning a placement or medal. But every week, year after year, she gives this sport her all. She works her tail off in practice, always has a positive attitude, and never once have I seen her upset after something hasn't went her way in a meet. For what she lacks in seemingly natural ability and grace, she makes up for in fortitude, hard-work, and determination. The girl has grit and I admire her really beyond words... because that simply cannot be taught. She loves this sport and it has NOTHING to do with medals.

I think you're right... medals may excite or motivate kiddos when they are younger, but at some point the love of their sport prevails and medals are an occasional bonus.

 

[duyetanh]

No need to go past top 5 in my opinion.... Only place I would expect to see top 10 is at Nationals.

Agreed and quite frankly at Nationals, I feel a medal out to tenth place is well deserved.

 

[OzZee]

You get what you pay for. So if paying $100 for a competition so you your child gets a $10 momento is important then that's fine.
I'd rather pay $20 for the competition and my kid gets nothing. If she places top 3 (or6) she gets a medal or a ribbon then that's great. And if I'd like to use that spare $80 to get her a momento from that competition/trip then that's up to me.
I see US kids getting a number of medals over a lot of competitions and don't see how they mean anything to the kids. They take them home and I imagine hang them up/throw them in a box. If you get (if you are really doing great) a couple of medals a year you treasure them .
The kids I've known over the years that have been high achievers (esp in lower levels) and get a number of medals a year and place well, tend to throw embarrassing hissy fits when they don't place or worse get a 3rd or something when they are older. (say 9-12)
For little kids (5-8yrs) the achievement ribbons are a great idea. They get something to show for their effort, before they can really understand the intrinsic rewards, but no one has do the stand in last place thing.
Most kids (the good - average etc ones) here have a very small collection of 'rewards' and they can show you and tell you about each medal. I'm sure most US kids can't do that, they are just forgotten after each meet. The ones that have had loads can't.

 

[Juniper311]

Small niggling point... medals don’t cost enough to raise the cost of a competition from $20 to $100 per entrant. Not by a long shot.

 

[sce]

Small niggling point... medals don’t cost enough to raise the cost of a competition from $20 to $100 per entrant. Not by a long shot.

We have other costs here too. We pay the judges, their judges are volunteers. I buce I have heard each club must provide a judge? I am not sure what the other differences cars are, but I do vive we have more expenses. Amos not sure their clubs useneets as a fundraiser the way US clubs do,

 

[gymmomx2]

You get what you pay for. So if paying $100 for a competition so you your child gets a $10 momento is important then that's fine.
I'd rather pay $20 for the competition and my kid gets nothing. If she places top 3 (or6) she gets a medal or a ribbon then that's great. And if I'd like to use that spare $80 to get her a momento from that competition/trip then that's up to me.
I see US kids getting a number of medals over a lot of competitions and don't see how they mean anything to the kids. They take them home and I imagine hang them up/throw them in a box. If you get (if you are really doing great) a couple of medals a year you treasure them .
The kids I've known over the years that have been high achievers (esp in lower levels) and get a number of medals a year and place well, tend to throw embarrassing hissy fits when they don't place or worse get a 3rd or something when they are older. (say 9-12)
For little kids (5-8yrs) the achievement ribbons are a great idea. They get something to show for their effort, before they can really understand the intrinsic rewards, but no one has do the stand in last place thing.
Most kids (the good - average etc ones) here have a very small collection of 'rewards' and they can show you and tell you about each medal. I'm sure most US kids can't do that, they are just forgotten after each meet. The ones that have had loads can't.

I would prefer this too but it’s not like we get a choice also here we pay the $100 and they still only place top 8 (which I like, not complaining about that). I’m not sure how your meets can be so cheap unless clubs make zero money for running one...we’ve never paid less than $85 for entry fee and that doesn’t include the cost for us to watch her.

 

[profmom]

I think most US meets are run as fundraisers either for the gym or the booster club. Our large invitational brings in enough money to pay for all coach travel to meets for the season.