WAG Interesting situation level4/level7

[Lynn]

During conversation with a parent at a recent meet, she brought up something that never crossed my mind as a possibility.

At her DD's gym, they recently moved up a couple level 4's to level 7. The girls competed one last level 4 meet and the following meet they competed level 7. One girl supposedly will be competing both level 4 and level 7 for the remainder of the season. Is that even possible to do both compulsory and optional all in one season?

Do you feel that is fair to the level 4 kids who are working hard on their skills to go up against kids who are beyond the level 4 skills and scoring 37-38 AA?

This is all the details she shared. I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this for me and help it make more sense to me. I just cannot imagine a gym would do this for one and another it being ethical and allowable. And I know, its not really my business, its more about curiousity and belief in the sport.

Thanks for your time once again

 

[rjb123]

they must have also scored out of level 5 at the last meet. Because they would need to do that before jumping to 7.

 

[gymmomtoo]

And I can't imagine that she can flip back and forth and do both in one season--

 

[Lynn]

I cannot imagine it either. Seems like the guidelines wouldn't permit that.

rjb123 I forgot about that and she did say they scored out but still competed level 4 2 more times before they started competing level 7 and one of them doing both level 4 and 7.

 

[GYM0M]

I do not think it's possible to compete level 4 and level 7 simultaneously. However, gymnasts can compete in both level 5 & 6, I believe. I am pretty sure USAG JO rules prohibit level 7s from competing level 4. The only things my limited brain can conjure up is maybe if she competes 'achievement' in the higher level or if she is competing under two different programs, like JO and AAU. Even if that is the case, unless there's something I'm missing, I still feel that is unethical. I do not see a problem with girls training levels ahead and competing down, but I've never seen anyone compete two drastically different levels.

 

[bogwoppit]

Cannot help with the issue, but please can you not type in bold, it is like using capitals and is hard on the eyes.

 

[Lynn]

Sorry about the bold...it happens when I use my computer ( regardless if I put it on that setting or not) but my phone seems to not do that.

 

[Lynn]

So...as there is an upcoming meet that the above mentioned gymnast will be competing in, she is listed to be competing level 4 at this meet and apparently at level 4 state meet. With potential to compete level 7 in between. After my original post, we come to find out we have a mutual friend at their gym and this was confirmed by her coach. Is this really even possible? Everyone says it's very unethical of a gym to do this with regards to these levels. Being one optional and the other compulsory. Any new thoughts out there? I know in every business there are things done "behind the scenes" but I'm trying not to lose faith in a sport my daughter loves. I just cannot imagine this could or would be done.

-iPhone ( bold check)

 

[LizzieLac]

I believe they would have to compete one level 5 meet to get the mobility score to move to level 7. I would expect the state commitee to audit the level placements and scores to some extent.

Also, in our state (which is not a huge state) everyone knows everyone - club owners, state committee, judges. And they know many of the gymnasts too. So, it would not surprise me if someone calls them on this if they try it without that level 5 mobilty score achieved.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

From what I understand you are not held to a level until you compete at state. That being said, to bounce back and forth from level 7 to 4 is kind of weird and pointless and unethical.
Now lets talk about the level 4-7 jump. If a gym has a track record of getting kids into optionals quickly and at a young age (9 or 10) then the 4.7 jump is part of a very successful progression plan. If a gym camps out in compulsories and takes forever to get into optionals and then does a 4-7 jump, then that is called a business plan... Fast track vs sand bagging. fair vs unfair

 

[skschlag]

Coachp...I agree in theory, but if this girl has already scored out of 5, why not do 5/7 instead? That would be a little closer to reality.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Coachp...I agree in theory, but if this girl has already scored out of 5, why not do 5/7 instead? That would be a little closer to reality.

=
I am not supporting the child/coach who scores out of 5 then retreats back to 4.

 

[skschlag]

I think this girl has scored out of 5, according to OP. That would be one issue. I still think it is strange to score out of 4 and 5, compete level 7, and then drop down and compete 4. Even if she is "fast tracked", it doesn't fit.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I think this girl has scored out of 5, according to OP. That would be one issue. I still think it is strange to score out of 4 and 5, compete level 7, and then drop down and compete 4. Even if she is "fast tracked", it doesn't fit.

==
My reply was speaking generally about programs, not specifically about a scenario.

 

[Seeker]

Sounds to me like they want said gymmie to finish season at L4 States...likely so they can place/score higher. My guess would be that the gymnast will compete L7 next season if they've scored out of 5 already. Maybe they scored out of 5, but didn't qualify for L5 State?

I do find it odd though....

 

[Deleted member 15064]

It sounds like the gym wants her to compete L4 states for the obvious reasons of doing very well. The L7 meets sprinkled in during this season give her experience at competing optionals before debuting officially as an L7 next season. Just guessing!

In our state, you can compete at a different level than states but only if it is a non state qualifier (though still sanctioned meet). Otherwise you are locked in to that new level for states if you meet the qualifying score. This method has been used to score out the next compulsory level prior to states, but still compete the level that was competed most/all of the season for states.

Exception being L5/6 which we've been told can be competed interchangeably and does not dictate what you must compete at states.

Our gym uses this technique sparingly, and with the intent of accelerating young, talented gymnasts.

The situation you speak of sounds odd. Almost comical really, to know that your L4's will be competing against a gymnast who is capable of L7 routines on all 4 events. But if it's happening with you, you can bet it's happening elsewhere.

 

[raenndrops]

In our state, there is a "Drop Back" date, and if a gymnast competes a higher level after that date, they are ineligible to compete at State at the lower level whether or not they qualified for State at the higher level.

 

[gymdog]

Most states have a drop back date. I don't know for sure that all states have them , but this would be impossible to do in many states. However, if she didn't register for another state meet, they might not catch it.

 

[gymdog]

Though, I'm a little confused. If she just competed an invitational at 7, she might be able to, but I think drop back is one level only. It requires a petition in my state. If you wanted to compete at level 4 and level 7 states in my state, it would be impossible because level 7 state is first and after that they wouldn't accept a petition because her level would be declared.

 

[Lynn]

Ok as if this hasn't been strange it just continues. The mutual friend and I attended a college gymnastics meet and ran into this gymnast and her mom. She was more than willing to tell everyone what was going on. So here it is...her dd started the season as a level 4. Began up training end of summer. Competed one level 4 meet and a level 5 to score out. Competed one more level 4 meet ( was to be her last originally) following week level 7 scored "just" a 34 ( moms words). Gymnast was asked where SHE wanted to compete state as the decision needed to be made by this past Wed. They said to her " with your scores as a level 4 you will compete against the best of the best or with your level 7 scores you will probably compete in the lower bracket for state". So the gymnast chose to compete level 4 state but will continue to compete level 7 also for the remainder of the season.

Would you all consider this sandbagging by the gym? Why would she want to choose the higher level for which she's been training when there is no guarantee of placing?