Level 5 Back extension roll ?

[mariposa]

When my daughter does her back extension roll, she doesn't do a tuck sit into it, she does a pike sit into it. So she is standing up, then with her legs straight she goes back into it. She says it is easier that way, but I haven't seen it done that way. Is that an alternative way to do it? Or is she doing to have to learn it from a tuck sit?

Thanks!

 

[bogwoppit]

Our girls all learn it that way, not sure wheher it's okay in USAG. But I think the coach would correct it if it was not acceptable.

How is L5 training coming along?

 

[gymnut1]

That is how it is taught in the UK. I asked once why legs had to be straight and was told straight arms and legs and head in is perfect prep for clear hip to handstand. If the legs are bent going down it's not the same prep.

Looked in the usag book I have - it doesn't mention bent or straight legs but there is a deduction for 'hands placed on floor during squat phase prior to rolling backwards' 0.3 So it does mention squat there. She definitely shouldn't put her hands down behind her when she rolls back (ours do tend to do that when they go back with straight legs)

Might be worth asking her coach.

 

[mariposa]

Thanks guys. She still keeps her hands above her head when she starts, just doesn't sit down (she used to when she did the level 4 back roll to push up). I just wondered if maybe it is a variation that is acceptable. I will wait and see how it progresses. She can do a pretty one like that. And I do trust her coaches, I just hate bugging them for something like this. LOL.

L5 training is coming along nicely. She has a break from gym this week. Yay!! She is only excited about the break because she doesn't have to wake up early. I know she will be driving me crazy by Wednesday.

 

[kflipz]

that is how it is taught in canada too, i have never seen a tuck into extension before.

 

[mariposa]

Maybe I am explaining it wrong? In L4, she would be standing, then kind of sit down and then go into her back roll to a push up position. She used to also be able to do her back extension roll to handstand like that, as in the USAG L5 and L6 floor routine. Now she starts standing and goes back with her legs straight, so when she hits the floor, she looks like she is sitting with her legs out in front of her.

At meets here, I have only seen it from standing, in to a sit/squat/tuck position. If she can do it consistently the way she is currently doing it and it isn't a huge deduction, I don't care. LOL. She doesn't always get to a HS when she does it the other way. But she is the only girl on her team that does it like that. I know they used to do a drill where they sit on the floor with legs out and go back, so maybe she tried it on the floor? Her coaches didn't say anything when she did it that way at the exhibition they did, just complimented how it was nice and asked her to do it again. So who knows.

 

[gymdog]

I don't think it would be a major deduction but I haven't really seen anyone do it that way. Lots of optionals "step" back into it (so only one leg bends). They did clarify that it's not a deduction specifically for "scooting" back into the back extension roll (i.e. - starting to sit with bent legs, and straightening out before the bottom touches the floor). However this will incur other deductions if there is bouncing (likely) or other rhythm issues.

I always bend my legs (both of them). Either way I think it's pretty limited as a clear hip handstand or giant drill. It's very basic body prep for correct shaping in the candlestick-extension phase (i.e. if a kid couldn't do it, I wouldn't even bother), but no matter how you do it it doesn't simulate the drop phase or the wrist shift which are both key elements. I wouldn't pike back into a back extension roll because I've torn a muscle in my lower back more than once and the impact in that kind of position wouldn't be good for me, but I can sit in a pike and do a back extension. Neither way seems particularly more like a clear hip handstand to me. The only difference between the two is that starting in sitting is harder because of no momentum, but falling to pike sit wouldn't be the same.

Some variations may be more aesthetically pleasing. Personally I hate the aforementioned "scoot" - it looks uncontrolled to me. I would never teach a fall to pike sit on the floor because I feel it places unnecessary stress on the back and does not encourage rounding, with no benefit to the performance of the skill. For this reason alone I would correct it as I feel sit to squat and roll is a more appropriate position to round the back. Having kids fall to pike sit, without their hands for support, on a harder surface is not good technique to me. If they put their hands for support this is an error in the skill for our purposes in the USAG program. If just teaching as a bar drill, fall to support on the hands and quickly throwing them back WOULD more closely simulate the clear hip circle, as the arms would be low by the legs and the move to full body extension. But we cannot perform the skill this way in the compulsory routines.

Edit: But I also don't teach it that way either for bar purposes. I am just guessing that is what was meant. I think candlestick bounce handstand on a tramp bar is better, to have them shift the wrists. Even without a tramp bar I have them do candlestick on wedge holding floor bar, drop feet down, and kind of bounce off into the clear support.

 

[mariposa]

Thanks gymdog!!! I am sure it will all get figured out eventually. I was just wondering. She won't be competing until October at the earliest, so lots of time to get it fixed if it is broken. I am sure her coaches will fix it if need be, but I was curious.

 

[gymnut1]

If just teaching as a bar drill, fall to support on the hands and quickly throwing them back WOULD more closely simulate the clear hip circle, as the arms would be low by the legs and the move to full body extension. But we cannot perform the skill this way in the compulsory routines.

yes that is how it is taught - using the hands down first - I dont like seeing people crash down onto their bottoms either. lol.

Edit: But I also don't teach it that way either for bar purposes. I am just guessing that is what was meant. I think candlestick bounce handstand on a tramp bar is better, to have them shift the wrists. Even without a tramp bar I have them do candlestick on wedge holding floor bar, drop feet down, and kind of bounce off into the clear support.

I see those candlestick bounce handstand things too as a drill here - good for wrist shift, I dont think the extension roll is taught specifically for clear hip handstand as it is used as a skill in it's own right in various grades but when I asked why the legs had to be straight that is the answer I was given. I can see the sense in it.

 

[gymdog]

That's what I assumed with the hands down first. I can't really imagine just falling to the bottom on the gymnastics floor. Seems like it would be likely to incur a rhythm problem because of bouncing or awkwardness. But definitely you can't put the hands down in the compulsory routines here.

 

[gym4life123]

I have never seen anybody tuck into a back extension roll. I always pike into it. I just fall down into the roll without touching my hands. I don't bounce or anything, it is all smooth. I have impressed quite a few coaches with how I do it, without the hands. My coaches were teaching them with hands down as you fall, but then switched because the girls were not getting the hands above their heads fast enough, and I think because I was the first one to get it and I did it like that. The corrected me, telling me to do them with my hands, but I got it without so they stoped. I think that pike with out hands is easier.

 

[i<3thesmellofchalk]

i tuck but right before i reach the ground i push back into a pike