WAG Level 6 bars question

[Ali'sMom]

I recently saw a post about a cast to handstand being required in Level 6 bars.
But I've looked at a multitude of Level 6 routines (new L6) on youtube, and only about half have the handstand.

Can someone tell me if it's required, or not?

Thanks!

 

[Mrs. Puma]

I'm certainly no expert yet, but the code of points reads "one cast to minimum of horizontal" good luck!

 

[gymmomx2]

But you get deductions for any cast not to handstand.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

But you get deductions for any cast not to handstand.

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[Ali'sMom]

But you get deductions for any cast not to handstand.

That's where I get confused. If it's not showing a hand stand as a required skill, how they deduct?

 

[gymmomx2]

They get the start value for the skill if they hit horizontal, but they get execution deductions if they are not vertical.

 

[raenndrops]

https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/J.O. Code of Points/appndx10_BarTechnique2013.pdf
The first picture shows that (even though a cast to horizontal is all that is required for L6) a horizontal cast receives a 0.30 deduction. Between 45º from HS and horizontal, it is 0.25-0.30 ... between 30º and 45º from HS, the deduction is 0.15 - 0.20 ... between 20º and 30º from HS, the deduction is 0.10 ... 10º to 20º from HS and the get credit for a B skill and only deducted 0.05 ... They have to be within 10º of HS to not get deducted.

The sneaky way around this is to have a Cast Squat on that has a horizontal cast and do NO other casts in the routine... then there is no deduction But this is difficult, so best to just limit casts unless they are close to HS.

 

[gymmutti]

My oldest competed L6 last year. The special requirement for L6 is at least 1 cast to horizontal. However, in optional (L6-10) any cast done will get a deduction if it is not to handstand. If your child can kip cast handstand in L6, you will see some beautiful bar scores. I am linking the deduction page from USA Gymnastics - this helped me a lot when I was trying to understand optionals. Basically, if your DD casts to horizontal she will meet the special requirement but will get 0.3 deducted for not hitting handstand.
https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/J.O. Code of Points/appndx10_BarTechnique2013.pdf

 

[gymmutti]

Raenndrops - you and I must have been typing at the same time.

 

[Ali'sMom]

Thank you all!!
(we aren't ready for 6 yet, but when the chatter is that our group will do L5 in the fall, and L6 in the spring, (next year), I'm just looking ahead to know what DD will need).

Optionals is definitely a whole new ball of wax after compulsories...

 

[Mrs. Puma]

My oldest competed L6 last year. The special requirement for L6 is at least 1 cast to horizontal. However, in optional (L6-10) any cast done will get a deduction if it is not to handstand. If your child can kip cast handstand in L6, you will see some beautiful bar scores. I am linking the deduction page from USA Gymnastics - this helped me a lot when I was trying to understand optionals. Basically, if your DD casts to horizontal she will meet the special requirement but will get 0.3 deducted for not hitting handstand.
https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/J.O. Code of Points/appndx10_BarTechnique2013.pdf

It's so tricky! This is good info, thanks.

 

[proud-gym-mom]

Wow, this is good info… now it makes sense to me why our gym wants the girls moving to L6 to have a cast to HS first, even though some of our new L6s aren't quite there in their routines out of their kips.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

It seems like a lot of us are in the almost-optionals/new-optionals phase...glad I have people to bounce stuff off in the near future!

 

[ascarter1]

This is such good info. Dd's routine was kip, cast to free-hip, squat on, jump to high bar, cast handstand to fly away layout and now they are working on kip to cast handstand, free-hip, squat on, jump to high bar, cast handstand to fly away layout. And now I see why! Thank you for bringing this to my attention!!

 

[RAMS]

This is such good info. Dd's routine was kip, cast to free-hip, squat on, jump to high bar, cast handstand to fly away layout and now they are working on kip to cast handstand, free-hip, squat on, jump to high bar, cast handstand to fly away layout. And now I see why! Thank you for bringing this to my attention!!

My dd does that exact bar routine for level 6. I didn't think the requirement was cast to hand stand.

https://usagym.org/docs/Women/Rules/J.O. Code of Points/appndx14_optreqchart_2013.pdf

States minimum cast to horizontal. So they get deducted if not to handstand?

 

[gymkat]

The sneaky way around this is to have a Cast Squat on that has a horizontal cast and do NO other casts in the routine... then there is no deduction But this is difficult, so best to just limit casts unless they are close to HS.

Cast squat on does not fulfill the cast requirement at ANY level, including Xcel.

To clarify:
Special Requirement (SR) for level 6: cast to horizontal

Expectation in level 6: cast to handstand

 

[kandkfunk]

My dd does that exact bar routine for level 6. I didn't think the requirement was cast to hand stand.

https://usagym.org/docs/Women/Rules/J.O. Code of Points/appndx14_optreqchart_2013.pdf

States minimum cast to horizontal. So they get deducted if not to handstand?

Yes, because they are held to the optional requirements for casting.

To fulfill the special requirements of level 6 bars and start at a 10.0 start value, they must have a cast to horizontal. If there is no cast to a minimum of horizontal, then the start value would be less than 10 (I believe it would be 9.5 but I may be wrong). After the start value is determined, the judges then take execution deductions. All optional casts must be to handstand (or within 10% of vertical I think). If they do not get to handstand, then deductions are taken based on how far from vertical the handstand was. A horizontal handstand would result in a .3 deduction even though the requirement for level 6 was met.

 

[raenndrops]

Cast squat on does not fulfill the cast requirement at ANY level, including Xcel.

To clarify:
Special Requirement (SR) for level 6: cast to horizontal

Expectation in level 6: cast to handstand

The CAST part of the cast squat on, as of last time I checked with the head judge in our area, as long as it hits or exceeds horizontal can fulfill the L6 cast to horizontal requirement without incurring the deduction for not to HS.
If HJ is at our next meet, I will confirm one way or the other.

 

[gymkat]

The CAST part of the cast squat on, as of last time I checked with the head judge in our area, as long as it hits or exceeds horizontal can fulfill the L6 cast to horizontal requirement without incurring the deduction for not to HS.
If HJ is at our next meet, I will confirm one way or the other.

"The cast before a squat on – jump to high bar or a shoot through CANNOT be considered for the cast SR for ANY Division."
https://www.usagym.org/PDFs/Women/xcel/faq.pdf

If Xcel explicitly disallows a cast squat on to fulfill the cast requirement, then JO certainly would not allow it...

 

[RAMS]

Yes, because they are held to the optional requirements for casting.

To fulfill the special requirements of level 6 bars and start at a 10.0 start value, they must have a cast to horizontal. If there is no cast to a minimum of horizontal, then the start value would be less than 10 (I believe it would be 9.5 but I may be wrong). After the start value is determined, the judges then take execution deductions. All optional casts must be to handstand (or within 10% of vertical I think). If they do not get to handstand, then deductions are taken based on how far from vertical the handstand was. A horizontal handstand would result in a .3 deduction even though the requirement for level 6 was met.

My dd had casts way above horizontal and had a start value of 9.5 on her level 6 bar routine this past weekend. On her cast fly away she did a lay out and landed on her back, feet never touched the ground. She also paused between her kip after squat on then went into her cast fly away. What would have caused her start value to be at a 9.5?