LGrip for young gymnasts

[NGL780309]

At times having a dad who is a coach is great, at other times it's a huge pain because he tells you things that make you think and well, it's easier just being in the dark sometimes about this sport.

DD is getting to spend some time with her dad this week and he's worked with her some in the gym as his own training schedule has allowed. One of the things he did with her today was hanging in Lgrip and doing handstands on a floor bar in Lgrip and he told me that she needs to be doing this as part of her training. He was curious if she had the flexibility naturally to work in lgrip and he says she does and she should be working on it moderately to develop strength in this grip and maintain the flexibilty. He said she wouldn't need it until much higher levels, but by then it would be late. He said not everyone has the natural flexibility to do it and those that do need to be doing it.

Coaches how do you feel about this? Is he right? Is it really that important? Will she really lose the flexibility if she's not using it? And if it's really that important why isn't it being done at gyms already?

 

[bogwoppit]

Interestingly enough this was discussed at some length on GGMB today, are you a member there like me?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Being able to do skills in elgrip is not necessary -- but it's certainly helpful for the girls that naturally have the nack for it.

I would say that some very light elgrip wrok at a young age probably isn't a bad idea, but they really shouldn't be pushing too hard on it. Hanging in elgrip and handstands in elgrip are fine if the kid can handle them without hurting too much -- but they shouldn't be swinging in elgrip and they shouldn't be doing anything that causes them more than light stretching pain.

 

[coachmolly]

I agree with GT in that it shouldn't be pushed too far at a young age, that's just a recipe for shoulder injuries, but I think working on the general flexibility needed to perform el-grip work is probably a decent idea, especially for athletes on the "elite track" or with the innate capability to work such skills. If the ability is there, why not work the necessary strength, flexibility, and gradual progressions as you would with any other progressive skill?
But, el-grip seriously hurts, especially if you do not have flexible shoulders, so it's best to be left to very competent coaches who know what they are doing and how to train these progressions without going too far too fast. And for most JO track girls with goals of college scholarships or just reaching the optional levels, it's really not necessary.

 

[gymdog]

I can't do it. I can physically conform to the grip in a handstand, but my wrist problems make it an issue with swinging (as in, when I try to swing down, I pretty much either have to hop my hands on the other side or peel). I don't think earlier training would have really benefitted me, since my wrist problems are partly genetic.

In a strong elite development program, then these grips would probably be introduced well before trying to do the actual giants. But if I remember correctly, your daughter is only 6. So, no harm, but I doubt the coaches consider it a big priority at this point during the regular training time. With 6 and 7 year old L5s, I might check for fun once in awhile if they could achieve positions like handstand or straddle press hold in the grip, but I wouldn't really devote much time to working on it. I think if you do other shoulder and wrist stretching and strengthening exercises, it also helps on that end. And they really need to have that physical prep in place before they do much in it. I do have them work on regular undergrip a little more probably (hanging in it, etc).

 

[Deleted member D3987]

very complicated stuff.

 

[gymnastjess]

At times having a dad who is a coach is great, at other times it's a huge pain because he tells you things that make you think and well, it's easier just being in the dark sometimes about this sport.

DD is getting to spend some time with her dad this week and he's worked with her some in the gym as his own training schedule has allowed. One of the things he did with her today was hanging in Lgrip and doing handstands on a floor bar in Lgrip and he told me that she needs to be doing this as part of her training. He was curious if she had the flexibility naturally to work in lgrip and he says she does and she should be working on it moderately to develop strength in this grip and maintain the flexibilty. He said she wouldn't need it until much higher levels, but by then it would be late. He said not everyone has the natural flexibility to do it and those that do need to be doing it.

Coaches how do you feel about this? Is he right? Is it really that important? Will she really lose the flexibility if she's not using it? And if it's really that important why isn't it being done at gyms already?

what is el-grip?

 

[Bobby]

what is el-grip?

Yes ditto!! I know I'm a dinosaur but I don't recall the term L-grip at all.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Yes ditto!! I know I'm a dinosaur but I don't recall the term L-grip at all.

I agree--I am not sure what el-grip is either. A picture would be nice if someone could upload. Thanks!!

 

[bogwoppit]

THe opposite of a regular grip, as in arms facing outward and hands facing up. A challenge for the wrists and shoulders.

As I alluded to in an earlier post this was discussed at some length on GGMB and I hoped the OP was a member there as it made good reading, but long to reiterate here.

The gist was wrists flexibility is very important for the grip. Working it younger made it easier long term.

 

[gymnut1]

Is L grip what you use for inverts? Is it the same as eagle giants.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

YouTube - Uneven bars. Giant bwd with 1/2 twist to el-grip

 

[Deanna]

Sorry just realized this was just for coaches. Retracted video i posted

 

[Sunobo]

Ouch. I didn't know what it was either until I googled it and found a video on gymnastike. At first I just thought it was a grip with the thumbs pointing to the outside until it showed a girl doing a handstand on a floor bar. That's when I saw her rotate her hands to the inside in order to get her thumbs on the outside. (Did that make sense?) I tried to rotate my wrists the same way and oh my goodness it was difficult.

 

[gymcoach34]

Your daughter is 6? Sure-a little intro to the grip is ok-but to really teach is/ use it takes special flex & conditioning work. I can think of a million more things a 6 year old should be exposed to first. Has she ever even worked a handstand in a front grip? (like a grip for a mill circle?) I think her dad's a little ahead of himself in this situation.

 

[gymdog]

Is L grip what you use for inverts? Is it the same as eagle giants.

Yes. It's more difficult than regular undergrip (i.e. just turning the palms around by rotating the the thumbs TOWARD yourself and outward). For el-grip/eagle the thumbs are rotated outward AWAY from the body, which takes more shoulder flexibility (hurts me even rotate my arms that way...much less hang or support my weight). You see mixed grip more often.

I don't think working it early is a panacea for the difficulty. There is still general physical preparation to consider and too much just relying on early flexibility before developing strength would concern me because especially if you were hanging in it there is force on the wrists and shoulders. Also I don't think girls necessarily "lose" this kind of flexibility imminently, like it's an emergency or something. I have seen many girls able to do this by 10 yrs or older. Of course in JO true el-grip is pretty rare. Most likely it would come into play if the gymnast was going to use higgins, which is a pretty easy 1/2 turn, and the post hand would end up in L, but they would catch in regular undergrip for the other hand. Occasional healys too but around here since that changed over from a D (it's still a C, right?) I haven't seen as much of it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

okay folks...take out a broom stick.

1. regular [also called over grip] grip- grip the stick with your fingers on top and thumbs on the bottom.

2. reverse [also called undergrip] grip- grip the stick with your fingers on the bottom and your thumbs on top.

3. L grip- extend your arms. palms down. now get a partner cause you'll need help. turn your left wrist clockwise so that your left thumb goes down and then away from the body so that your thumb is now where the little finger was. turn the right wrist counterclockwise and do the same. you should now have your palm and the bottom of your elbow facing up. now have your partner put the stick in your hands. next? now put your hands on the floor while holding the stick. just place a little weight on them. don't let go of the stick....get back to me after you appreciate what an L grip is.

and then you have Ono, Takamoto, Czech, mixed, german and eagle...this could get fun! and yes coaches, the healey which is a higgins/Lgrip/mixed grip iteration. yowzer!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Is L grip what you use for inverts? Is it the same as eagle giants.

yes. and not exactly. your wrist pads are on top of the bar during an invert which connotes a vertical handstand while in that grip position. eagle finds you holding on with your fingers and dowels and your hands are under the bar and follow the swing of the body where the hands shift after the body swings past vertical.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

YouTube - Uneven bars. Giant bwd with 1/2 twist to el-grip

didn't watch the video but i'll point out that what you posted is a higgins. and there are 2 kinds. one turns to both hands being in L grip and the other a healey/mixed grip which is 1 in L grip and the other hand in reverse grip.

 

[staceyb]

Tom Forster on deciding whether or not to train El/Eagle grip from gymnastike

Technique Tuesday: Deciding Whether or not to Train an L-Grip | Technique Tuesday | Gymnastike