No 4 or 5?

[Obeg]

Rumor has it that our gym is dropping levels 4 & 5 and competing Prep Opt for those instead. I understand how you can drop 4 but how can you drop level 5? Don't you need a mobility score from 5 to do level 6 (or any level above 4)? I understand a mobility meet - but you would need to learn the routines...?

What does one think about this? To me Prep Opt is more of a recreational program - not ideal path to a more competitive track...? Thoughts?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Our gym does only prep-op, and it's worked great for us so far.

What we do is have the kids go to mobility meets when we're getting ready to move them up; that is, they go to one meet at level 5 and one meet at level 6 just so they can qualify out.

 

[lilgymmie7]

My DD gym has both a USA and GIJO(Prep op) team. My DD trains through USA but competes GIJO because of her age. She competes level 5 and is only 6 and 4 mos. Competing GIJO gives her the opportunity to compete without all of the pressure of USA. She will probably do 5 as USA next Janurary when she turns 7, but will have half a year competing under her belt. It's working for her.

 

[Ingwe]

Our Gym competes L4 and L5 but does not compete L6. Instead the girls from L5 either go to PREP Gold (then will go to a L6 meet to score out) OR they go right from L5 to L7 (also going to one L6 meet to score out)

It seems to be more common in my area. I live at the beach (in SC) and the 3 big Gyms all seem to be doing it this way. Our Gym just started doing it this past season and from what I understand the owner was happy with it and plans to continue on this track. My DD was one that went from L5 to L7 so I am not that familiar with PREP Gold. I do know that at our Gym they go 16 hours a week and train just as hard as USAG.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

Our gym is planning to have this type of program however we will still have a level 4 and 5 team but then move to pre-op and compete 1 level 6 meet to score out. I love the idea and can't wait for Alex to get past the compulsary levels! (that is if she can stay uninjured long enough!).

 

[gymnut29]

Not sure if I am a fan of this. As a coach at a gym with a prep opt program that is geared toward just keeping kids in gymnastics I see this as making prep opt into something it wasnt meant to be.
Prep Opt is for kids to get a basic intro to optionals, and more for kids that cant commit to the hours USAG ussually requires, my kids work out 4-8 hours for prep opt. If they have to start competing against kids who are really level 6 or 7 and working out 12+ hours a week and just using as a bridge between my kids will be blown away and never have a chance at a standing up on the awards podium. I have a kids that arent good enough for USAG in our gym, wanted to play other sports, or just couldnt keep up with the pressures of level 5,6, or 7.
I dont want to dis this idea but it makes the playing field of prep opt very uneven, USAG didnt start prep opt as a program to use in conjunction to compulsaries they used it as another option that has no transfer to compulsaries or optionals.

I do however like the idea that in the next compulsary rotation in a few years level 6 will be more like an optional level I am interested to see if gyms get away from prep opt when this starts.

 

[bookworm]

I totally agree with you Gymnut... I have never viewed PrepOp as a path to take instead of compulsories ...I think the playing field will be so uneven that the "real" PrepOp girls (who train less, do other sports and things) might begin to feel like "why bother" if they are going to get demolished at meets by girls training 14-15 hours a week for PO.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

The way I see it, prep op has several huge advantages. First of all, it makes the sport more accessible. Some kids are going to be great some day, some won't. But I don't believe in separating them out at really early stages, because such predictions are wrong as often as they are right. Rather than telling a 6 or 7-year-old kid "you're never going to be any good, so we're putting you in this alternate program," we just have everybody do the alternate program.

Second, there's a lot in the compulsory routines that I don't like training and that I think aren't developmentally useful (the level 4 shoot thru and mill circle being the classic example, though far from the only example).

Third, a lot of kids simply aren't suited to the compulsory routines. We had one girl at our gym awhile back who couldn't make it to states as a level 5 -- but who easily qualified at the prep-op equivalent of level 6.

To me, the effectiveness of a prep-op program depends heavily on how it's used.

EDIT: I suppose I should also mention that I think it's stupid to require girls to get a certain score to qualify out of a level in the first place, but that's another can of worms altogether.

 

[Obeg]

I tend to feel the same way about it as GymNut... I was under the impression that the Prep Opt was more for the kids or gyms who don't desire to spend as much time in the gym as the JO program. I think that is a great idea for those kids and gyms. Gives them something for them. This sort of feels like the NFL guys coming down and taking over the Arena Football league just because "it is more fun and the season is shorter". Or for those NASCAR fans out there - "Bush Wackers" as we love to call them.

We experienced some of this ourselves this year as my daughter has been in pre-team and working with the lvl 4 girls one day a week with all expectations of moving to level 4 this summer. Additionally she competed Rookie 1 (the NC lowest bronze level). However - the way our gym did that level this year was 2 hours a week the rookie team would meet and work on routines. The routines were very "dumbed" down - containing only the absolute minimum skills required. (IE bars is PO, BHC, cast off dismount at regionals this week). This allowed our girls to score well without putting many hours learning the routines - but we competed against other power house gyms that are using this as a real competitive level and step stone and their girls go and train 12+ hours a week. Their routines are way more complex and they look great - but some actually score below our girls because of all the extra fluff (room for mistakes). Geoffrey - being from NC you probably know the gyms I speak of.

At this point it is just a rumor - hope it is not true. If it is - not sure what we will do - there are several other gyms in the area - unfortunately 2 are powerhouse gyms that my dd probably would not even make their lvl 4 team at the moment.

 

[Ingwe]

Obeg,

Are you familiar with a Gym in NC called Everest? I am asking because we came up against them this year and those girls were amazing.

 

[Obeg]

Yes - they are one of the power houses I am talking about. They have a dedicated rookie team as well as JO. My dd did a try out last month for their lvl 4 team and they said "thanks, but no thanks". Oh well - I thought she did well - hung with the other girls ok - but she is behind strength wise (they are conditioning crazy there) and although not said - might be a bit old for them (turning 10 next month).

She was also invited to try out with the Prep team - but at that point we thought she could do JO at her current gym.

She also did a try out for another local powerhouse - and they too were not immediately ready to put her on team (they were honest and told me they thought she was too old) but did invite her back to work with the lvl 4 for a week and then a final decision would be made. We had made the decision to just stick where we are...

Now all of it is muddy again...

 

[Ingwe]

I hope that what you are hearing about no L4 and L5 is just a rumor and that you will be able to stay where you are.

 

[JBS]

Here is some reading for everyone:

USAG 2009-2010 Rules & Policies (page 55 for PREP-Opt.)

2010 Wisconsin State PREP-Opt. Handbook

Region 5 PREP-Opt. Website

In the state of Wisconsin the PREP-Opt. program is very different from the USAG JO program. The details are in the second link above. The primary difference is the age requirement. A gymnast must be 10 years old to compete in the PREP-Opt. program in Wisconsin.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I also agree with GymNut on this issue. At my DD's gym, the All Star team is made up of girls who have competed Levels 4-6 in the past. Several of them, DD included, actually were training for L7 as well. It is very disheartening to go to meets where other gyms are using the Prep Optional program IN ADDITION TO their (Second year)Level 7 and Level 8 competition seasons. In Virginia, we don't have the bronze, silver, gold and platinum distinctions. It's just novice, intermediate and advanced. So ALL of those high level girls doing the giants, straddle backs, etc. are all lumped in with the Advanced girls who basically have the beginning level 7 skills (no giants yet) and maybe some twisting on floor.

To me, it's just not really ethical. Yes, these girls come in and are scoring 37's and above. Is that REALLY what this program is designed for?? Not according to the USAG rules. To me and other parents (including our DD's coaches), it's really "cheating" the system as far as I'm concerned.

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

We are also in NC. Our gym competes compulsory in the fall and Prep Op in the spring. Our gym does the Prep Op for fun, so the girls can have some fun & flexibility with routines. They train the same 9 hours as they do in the fall and work on uptraining.

One of our girls made the NC state team and our Bronze team took 1st place

Everest is very good !!!

I can see gymnut's point, if the program was intended as less, hours & pressure and gyms use it instead of USAG but train additional hours etc it will no longer be what was intended. I like that our gym does both ( except the extra $! ) because the girls love having different music.

 

[Obeg]

Well it turns out is not a rumor. My DW had a long talk with the compulsory coach last night and she confirmed it - the gym is yanking 4 & 5 (had already yanked 6 anyway) and replacing it with Prep Optional. Turns out there are several gyms in NC doing this - the one Geoffrey works at, Tumblebees (same?), and Gym Company - just to name 3 that I know of in 3 days of research. We actually went by GC today because we were in the area - great facility but too far from us. But talked to a coach there and she explained their reasoning behind it - which is the same as what Geoffrey has said and our coach.

Basically the idea is to get away from the boring comp routines, not forcing kids to learn skills they will never do again, not forcing them to learn skills they might not be the best at instead allowing them to train to their strengths, etc. Basically they will train and create optional routines, testing out of each level when ready with a mobility meet and then rejoin JO at level 7.

On the surface I like the idea. It makes sense to make it more fun for the girls, allow more unique routines, etc. But I still don't like the feeling that we are exploiting a loop hole that USAG did not intend, and also feel bad for those girls who are wanting to compete but either don't have the abilities, time, skill, body, money, etc to compete JO. I feel this will push them out of the competitive sport...

So guess we will go with it... maybe it will turn out great.

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

Maybe it will work out better than you hope & I am sorry the trials at the powerhouse gym did not work out.

Tumblebees are insanely good. When my DD competed Rookie 1 one of them got a 10.0 on beam !!! They took 5 of the 6 spots on the State team @ Regionals for Bronze level.

I heard NC may move in line with the rest of the region 8 and switch to Bronze, Silver...... don't know if its true.

 

[Obeg]

Tumblebees are insanely good. When my DD competed Rookie 1 one of them got a 10.0 on beam !!! They took 5 of the 6 spots on the State team @ Regionals for Bronze level.

That is exactly my point. Why are they so good? Because that is their competitive team since they do not do compulsory. These girls are training "X" amount of hours year round to compete in these what were supposed to be recreational competitions. I still feel for the girls that will be pushed out. On my dds team - there are several girls who would have a hard time scoring 7s even as a Rookie 1. They are older, or does not the perfect gymnast genes, or do not come but 3 hours a week - but they like to compete. They won't be able to much longer.

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

That is exactly my point. Why are they so good? Because that is their competitive team since they do not do compulsory. These girls are training "X" amount of hours year round to compete in these what were supposed to be recreational competitions. I still feel for the girls that will be pushed out. On my dds team - there are several girls who would have a hard time scoring 7s even as a Rookie 1. They are older, or does not the perfect gymnast genes, or do not come but 3 hours a week - but they like to compete. They won't be able to much longer.

I have heard a lot of rumors about why they are so good, since I can't confirm any there is no point In bringing them up. However, I think the Prep Op program should be used as it was intended and not as a different way to get to L 7 without doing compulsories, I don't know. maybe that would mean my DD team could not do prep op, not sure. Like I said they do It for fun to break out from the rigidity of compulsories. They don't even start working on routines until after compulsory states in Dec so thwy only have a monthor so to work routines priprior to meet season.

I wish your DD the best, hope things work out ok.