WAG Not quite spotting question

[Mish]

ugh, and that is only level 4 and 5. I shouldn't have watched...

 

[Deleted member 14190]

So why isn't spotting required for girls?!?

Good question....

 

[gymdog]

I think USAG should require it. It's just not worth it. I stand in the back of the swing with one hand behind their heels as the come up and one hand under them. Even if you don't catch them just being under them can slow them down enough that they don't land on their neck like in the "Amy" video.

You have to be prepared to spot because reaction time is not 100%. Leaning against the bar uprights or half heartedly reaching over the low bar while standing behind it is not going to prevent any of the crashes we see above, yet I see people spot like this or not spot at all. I also hear people say "well this kid is good so she doesn't need to be spotted." WRONG they are more likely to peel catastrophically the better they are at bars. A kid who is fish tailing underneath the high bar is not going to peel or is going to peel to her feet. The kids who peel and hit the low bar or flip forwards onto their arms or neck are the ones who are swinging higher, the higher and harder they swing the more dangerous it is and the more alert the spotter needs to be.

 

[duyetanh]

I think USAG should require it. It's just not worth it. I stand in the back of the swing with one hand behind their heels as the come up and one hand under them. Even if you don't catch them just being under them can slow them down enough that they don't land on their neck like in the "Amy" video.

You have to be prepared to spot because reaction time is not 100%. Leaning against the bar uprights or half heartedly reaching over the low bar while standing behind it is not going to prevent any of the crashes we see above, yet I see people spot like this or not spot at all. I also hear people say "well this kid is good so she doesn't need to be spotted." WRONG they are more likely to peel catastrophically the better they are at bars. A kid who is fish tailing underneath the high bar is not going to peel or is going to peel to her feet. The kids who peel and hit the low bar or flip forwards onto their arms or neck are the ones who are swinging higher, the higher and harder they swing the more dangerous it is and the more alert the spotter needs to be.

This actually explains why my dd hasn't peeled off. Her bars are soooo less than awesome....

 

[gymdog]

This actually explains why my dd hasn't peeled off. Her bars are soooo less than awesome....

It's not a guarantee but if their swing is smaller you can see how they won't flip over. They'll let go and kind of land on all fours under the low bar. Not something you want to happen, but it becomes catastrophic when they're high enough to hit the low bar on the way down...

I had a kid last year tell me she didn't want me to spot her because her mom thought it was a deduction. Okay so your mom wants you to scratch bars? Great! Otherwise you're getting spotted.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

One thing I really like in our system is that instead of using uneven bars we use strap bar for level B = zero peel offs happen, and single high bar for level C with big, soft mat under. So they have change to get really nice and big tap swings and do them two years before competing them on real uneven bars and until this day I haven't seen any injuries on bars at competition. Then when they move up to level D they use uneven bars but the routine does not have any tap swings. The squat on jump to high bar is another "dangerous" skill though and it has caused some arm injuries at comps.

Edit: there is actually an option of doing the flyaway out of one tap swing, but the tap swing height isn't deducted. Most choose not to do the flyaway at this level and do the alternative dismount or do the flyaway out of cast.

 

[JBS]

So why isn't spotting required for girls?!?

Not sure...it should be.

Even when standing in and spotting...it is extremely hard to catch an athlete that peels. This is why you will see some coaches putting there arms in "catch" position on each swing. A coach also must be in what you can call a "ready position"...they must be ready to jump in...on the balls of their feet. If the coach is on their heels...then they don't have a chance to catch the athlete.

The worst is when you are in spotting...and you still drop the athlete.

 

[raenndrops]

I can't remember if it is YMCA Nationals or NAIGC or AAU, but somebody does require it... the gymnast has to restart the routine - with a chief judge deduction, if the coach was out of place at the start of the routine.

I know it is one of them... and think it is Y - our coach is always there.

 

[mommyof1]

The worst is when you are in spotting...and you still drop the athlete.

That would certainly be a horrible feeling for the coach, but even if you only managed to absorb some of the energy of the fall before the kid slipped out of your grasp, wouldn't it reduce the risk?

 

[JBS]

That would certainly be a horrible feeling for the coach, but even if you only managed to absorb some of the energy of the fall before the kid slipped out of your grasp, wouldn't it reduce the risk?

Don't worry...if the coach is 6 inches away and on their heels...they won't even be quick enough to touch the kid when they peel.

 

[profmom]

Those videos should be required viewing with every purchase of a home bar. Squat on falls that result in surgery as well. I have seen enough scary peels in my day that I have a healthy respect for the danger involved in tap swings and squat ons. Boys can and do peel as well on tap swings, and it's no more fun to see a boy doing the Superman across the gym.

Very glad that I've never seen a bars routine competed by my DD with a coach hanging around in the background only half attending, and very glad that boys are required to have a coach right there -- though I did see a kid peel and crash into the high bar support wires at a L5 session a few years ago despite this.

 

[sevenatenine2]

Oh my goodness, yes. Now all I can think of is one of those kids falling like that into their living room window.

Ugh! I'm sick feeling!

 

[Anna's_Mom]

I guess I didn't describe this well, because this wasn't something that any other coaches were doing, and I can't believe that all of the other teams had bad coaching practices. I think maybe what was different was that the coaches hands were between the low bar and the gymnasts legs for tap swings -- if they had caught a girl peeling off, they would have swung her head into the ground by where their hands were because they would end up grabbing ankles or lower legs and the girl's momentum would have continued. It looked like their sole purpose was to avoid feet hitting the lower bar -- sometimes it even looked like their arms were resting up against the lower bar, giving the girl a softer surface to hit.
At any rate, looks like this is allowed and even encouraged, though it's not something that I've ever seen our coaches do to that extent. Standing there, yes, blocking the low bar, no.

 

[raenndrops]

I guess I didn't describe this well, because this wasn't something that any other coaches were doing, and I can't believe that all of the other teams had bad coaching practices. I think maybe what was different was that the coaches hands were between the low bar and the gymnasts legs for tap swings -- if they had caught a girl peeling off, they would have swung her head into the ground by where their hands were because they would end up grabbing ankles or lower legs and the girl's momentum would have continued. It looked like their sole purpose was to avoid feet hitting the lower bar -- sometimes it even looked like their arms were resting up against the lower bar, giving the girl a softer surface to hit.
At any rate, looks like this is allowed and even encouraged, though it's not something that I've ever seen our coaches do to that extent. Standing there, yes, blocking the low bar, no.

You did describe it properly... and yes... that is an arm "at the ready" protecting her from slamming into the low bar... able to grab her and rotate her to a safer landing... slowing the descent... lots of things.
And more coaches should be doing it.

 

[gymdog]

I guess I didn't describe this well, because this wasn't something that any other coaches were doing, and I can't believe that all of the other teams had bad coaching practices. I think maybe what was different was that the coaches hands were between the low bar and the gymnasts legs for tap swings -- if they had caught a girl peeling off, they would have swung her head into the ground by where their hands were because they would end up grabbing ankles or lower legs and the girl's momentum would have continued. It looked like their sole purpose was to avoid feet hitting the lower bar -- sometimes it even looked like their arms were resting up against the lower bar, giving the girl a softer surface to hit.
At any rate, looks like this is allowed and even encouraged, though it's not something that I've ever seen our coaches do to that extent. Standing there, yes, blocking the low bar, no.

THAT'S WHERE THEIR HANDS NEED TO BE. In between the child and whatever they might hit. To prevent them from going over the low bar.

Again, half heartedly leaning against the uprights while looking up is useless. There's literally zero percent chance you will be able to do anything except have a front row seat of the kid falling. There have been studies done on reaction times and it takes too long to even process what is happening. You have to be prepared to actually spot, as if you are in in practice and spotting them, but with your hand one cm away. If you're not planning to spot, your brain won't react fast enough to do anything. If you're just hanging around, then your brain has to process the kid slipping, you have to move forward and your brain has to figure out where to put your hands. Planning to spot is the only way.

You're right that many coaches don't spot this way. They're taking a gamble that usually pays off, most kids survive level 4 and 5. But some have career ending injuries on these peels. I'm not willing to take that chance, even if it's small. And actually, I didn't have anyone peel last season anyway, for instance, so technically I "didn't have to be there." But again, it's a gamble. I'm sure Amy in the video above had never fallen like that before and her coach was sick about it. I want to know I'm doing everything I can, and standing four feet away or sitting on the bar spreader is not doing everything I can. In addition, I would assume it would be a liability to not attempt to do everything I can to minimize the risk, should something terrible happen and the parents decide to sue it is pretty much automatically negligent for me to be nowhere near the kid when this is a known risk and many other coaches are spotting to reduce the risk. If I'm prepared to spot, I at least have a chance.

Finally, I'm sure the coach standing there does give some visual feedback which might in fact reduce the risk that they peel in the first place (hard to prove, but I think for some kids who might let go reflexively when something is going wrong, it might). That being said, after watching the way Amy landed, is it wrong to do something that could prevent the risk in the first place? Every coach can spot if they want. I'm sure it does give the kids more confidence. I know it gives me more confidence. It's risk reduction and whatever risk reduction we can do is important.

 

[kayjaybe]

I know gymnastics is full of dangers, but this move seems to be more dangerous than what it appears to an untrained eye. I had never seen someone peel of the bars until seeing those videos.

Could/should this skill be replaced with something else that is less dangerous? Just like they are changing the L8 vault to be a single vault (or you have to take the 2nd one, if you opt to do it).

It just seems much more fraught with peril than all the other moves at these low levels of 4 & 5.

 

[Sari]

There have been studies done on reaction times and it takes too long to even process what is happening. You have to be prepared to actually spot, as if you are in in practice and spotting them, but with your hand one cm away. If you're not planning to spot, your brain won't react fast enough to do anything.

Yes to this! I experienced it firsthand once with a front punch.
I wasn't expecting this one girl to even go for the skill because she was more or less doing tuck jumps before without any rotation. Then suddenly she started turning (way too late!), my brain froze, I couldn't do ANYTHING but watch as she landed directly on her head.
That was a lesson, I tell you. Now I'm always right there ready to catch. (Thankfully we had a crash mat there and she didn't get seriously injured.)

Spot, people. Please. A child's health is so much more important than the few tenths he/she might lose on one event in that one competition.

 

[gymdog]

I know gymnastics is full of dangers, but this move seems to be more dangerous than what it appears to an untrained eye. I had never seen someone peel of the bars until seeing those videos.

Could/should this skill be replaced with something else that is less dangerous? Just like they are changing the L8 vault to be a single vault (or you have to take the 2nd one, if you opt to do it).

It just seems much more fraught with peril than all the other moves at these low levels of 4 & 5.

This is discussed every year. The compulsory committee considers it too important to get rid of. I don't necessarily disagree. People are of course free to spot.

 

[wordsmith]

Reading through some of the comments, I'm wondering if readers might have missed noticing that there's a link to a blogpost in here (1 of 2 links in my previous comment):

Girls Peeling off the Bar on a Tap Swing!!!

Some of the discussion here is brought up and addressed/discussed there.

 

[Committed]

I've had my DD peel off the high bar, hit the low bar, and land on her back/neck at a meet.
They stopped the meet and tended to her.

Thankfully she ended up with just some soreness and some shaken confidence. It is scary to watch (no, I didn't watch those videos, either).

I very much appreciate active spotting, especially since I have one of "those" kids who find every opportunity to hurt themselves.