WAG not working to potential?

[momof2gymmies]

I need some help with YDD. She is 10, almost 11. She is on her third year of team. She says she likes it. I have asked her many, many times if she wants to quit, and always get an no for the answer. She is usually happy to go to practice. She killed it last year - high 38s at every meet. This year she is averaging 35s, and her routines are almost the same. She has lost all of her tightness. She picks skills up in seconds, but doesn't work to clean them up. She is the kid who got her kip the first time she tried, and never lost it. On an almost weekly basis the coach calls me into her office to talk about DD's "appalling lack of effort". DD is not disrespectful while at practice, does not fool around, just doesn't try, if that makes any sense. She is not doing well at meets this year, yet she is not doing horrible either. She has won beam at every meet, and has come in anywhere between 1st and 4th on bars. Floor is ok, just loose, and vault is a hot mess, but she just shrugs and happily skips out of the meet. Her coaches have gone into boot camp mode with her - every bent arm or leg equals a certain number of sit ups after practice. Last night she had to stay and do 199. She was happy with it, her coaches not so much.

I am stuck with what to do with her. Do I force her to quit at the end of the season? I have told her that if I get one more remark about effort she is done. Whatever I do with her, I want her to know it is her effort I am upset over, and not her scores or placements. I don't care if she wins, but I do feel she should be working 100% of the time for the money we are spending and the time required.

 

[skschlag]

I find effort very hard to measure. I have had that talk a few times with my ds over the years. He almost always puts me in my place with a calm remark about what he was doing. There is downtime at practice, and there needs to be for their sanity. So he will say that he was visualizing, or thinking about a new skill, or stretching, etc. So sometimes, what looked like lack of effort, was just some other form of work. I think sometimes it is hard for coaches too, because each child's working hard can look different. I also think that they go through periods of inability to sustain the amount of work they used to do. ds's came when he was growing, and working hard sometimes meant just getting around the bar or pommel horse, as he was trying to figure out his new length weight.

Has she grown lately? That could be affecting her tightness. ALso she got 38s last year, 35s this year; I am assuming that she moved up a level where some of the requirements are different?

Now, if she were goofing around, etc, that would be different. But I think expecting work 100% of the time is a bit of a high expectation....I know I don't work 100% of the time

IMO, I would wait it out, as long as she is happy, and progressing.

 

[B&M's mom]

Been there. Have no real answer. I had to come to grips with the fact that motivation really has to come from them. My youngest had the potential to be a beautiful gymnast but she wasn't doing gymnastics to medal, she enjoyed the social aspect. She consistently medaled on beam but her form on floor and bars was, well, loose. Was it frustrating? Yes but nothing we said or did made a difference to her. I had to let go of the desire to force her to work to her potential and just focus on the fact that she was enjoying the sport and staying healthy. The one bonus was that it made meets a lot easier as I wasn't worrying about scores, falls or placements.

 

[gymbeam]

Sounds like a very intense situation for everyone.

What level is she?

Maybe a nice break away from gym would help- is it about time for a summer vacation?

Hope things smooth out soon!

 

[Seeker]

Has she grown a lot? Sometimes it takes a while for them to function in their new heavier bodies with longer legs and arms. There could also be something else going on -- maybe a bad working relationship with the coach? Will she continue with this same coach? I would not force her to quit if she says she doesn't want to, but I would talk with her about the situation. Ask her what she thinks is going on, how you and her coach can help her. "Lack of effort" could also be fear.

It just seems like there's more to the story. I'd try to help her figure it out and then try to work with the coach to come up with a strategy to help her.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

Has she grown a lot? Sometimes it takes a while for them to function in their new heavier bodies with longer legs and arms. There could also be something else going on -- maybe a bad working relationship with the coach? Will she continue with this same coach? I would not force her to quit if she says she doesn't want to, but I would talk with her about the situation. Ask her what she thinks is going on, how you and her coach can help her. "Lack of effort" could also be fear.

It just seems like there's more to the story. I'd try to help her figure it out and then try to work with the coach to come up with a strategy to help her.

Yes to this! Every time my dd has a growth spurt her form takes a temporary hit. The coaches have to really drill her to get everything right again. It's hard to remember to stay tight and do everything with straight legs and pointed toes when all of a sudden your legs are two inches longer than they used to be and everything feels different.

 

[momof2gymmies]

To answer some questions, no she hasn't grown at all. She is a peanut, not quite hitting 50 pounds. She is competing silver, but at our gym, xcel is very competitive. She is doing robhsbhs and a ft on floor, bwo, full turn and cartwheel back tuck dismount on beam, and kips on both bars, so I would guess between L 4 and 5?

She doesn't love her coach. She had two different ones last year, and both left the gym, She adored them, so that might have something to do with it. I know ODD feels the same way, but has a different personality, so she works hard regardless.

When I ask her, she says she is trying. I think there is a difference in her mind and the coaches. She feels she is trying since she picks skills up no problem, Her coach feels she is giving her the same corrections over and over, such as point your toes, and that she knows how to do it but is choosing not to.

 

[gymbeam]

Has she grown a lot? Sometimes it takes a while for them to function in their new heavier bodies with longer legs and arms. There could also be something else going on -- maybe a bad working relationship with the coach? Will she continue with this same coach? I would not force her to quit if she says she doesn't want to, but I would talk with her about the situation. Ask her what she thinks is going on, how you and her coach can help her. "Lack of effort" could also be fear.

It just seems like there's more to the story. I'd try to help her figure it out and then try to work with the coach to come up with a strategy to help her.

Yes, I also thought fear too, in which case spotlighting it is not going to help.
I hope you can talk more about it and figure out a plan that she feels good about.
And maybe even talk with coaches privately and see if backing off for a little while helps?

 

[Sasha]

My armchair diagnosis is that she has come to a place in her gymnastics where she is enjoying the skills, the camaraderie, the fitness, the competition experience, but is no longer enjoying the constant, unending mental effort that is required to achieve the precision being demanded by this program. And at many gyms, Xcel is the perfect place for girls in this mindset, as they can get away with a little less precision, and still have fun, learn skills, compete, stay fit, and be part of a team (all great benefits to gymnastics). It sounds, however, like your Xcel coaches are possibly more demanding than average, and that is starting not to be a fit for her personally. So you're right - this particular combination is probably not going to last successfully too much longer.

The only successful outcomes are..
1) Her mental effort needs to come up to satisfy the coaches
While possible, it has to be on her own time, of her own accord. She is 11. No one can 'make' her put in more mental effort if it is not 'in' her to do so. The coaches are already in boot camp mode, as you say. It will either work, or it won't. The more people try to 'make' her, the more likely she will just be done and eventually quit. It truly, truly, needs to come from her. Anything else will be temporary and ultimately drive her to quit. She is 11 and, though small, puberty is still approaching. Her brain is changing. Her emotions. She may just need time without people pressuring her to rediscover how good she can be when she really works at it. But only positive support is likely to be helpful here. Lectures are unlikely to work.

2) Coaches need to back off a little on expectations from her, and let her enjoy whatever aspects of Xcel she wants. Natural consequences (low scores, etc) will either push her back toward more focus after some time, or it won't.
Not sure if this is possible in your program.

3) She finds a more relaxed Xcel program, or something related she enjoys like Cheer.
Lots of gymnasts want to enjoy Xcel for the benefits mentioned above, without the insane mental pressure of perfection that is more akin to JO. There is nothing wrong with this. This could be her happy place.

Xcel is not usually a 'path' toward college or elite gymnastics, so whether or not she puts in 100% mental effort and scores 38s or 70% and scores 35s, does it really matter in the long run if she is happy, fit, and fulfilled? If it doesn't matter to her, consider why it may matter to you (I ask myself this question as well, so I hear you, believe me).

 

[momof2gymmies]

My armchair diagnosis is that she has come to a place in her gymnastics where she is enjoying the skills, the camaraderie, the fitness, the competition experience, but is no longer enjoying the constant, unending mental effort that is required to achieve the precision being demanded by this program. And at many gyms, Xcel is the perfect place for girls in this mindset, as they can get away with a little less precision, and still have fun, learn skills, compete, stay fit, and be part of a team (all great benefits to gymnastics). It sounds, however, like your Xcel coaches are possibly more demanding than average, and that is starting not to be a fit for her personally. So you're right - this particular combination is probably not going to last successfully too much longer.

I think they are. They won't let the kids move up until they successfully compete the max at each level. And she is a kid who likes things on her terms, so it may just be a poor fit.



2) Coaches need to back off a little on expectations from her, and let her enjoy whatever aspects of Xcel she wants. Natural consequences (low scores, etc) will either push her back toward more focus after some time, or it won't.
Not sure if this is possible in your program.

I don't think it would happen.

3) She finds a more relaxed Xcel program, or something related she enjoys like Cheer.
Lots of gymnasts want to enjoy Xcel for the benefits mentioned above, without the insane mental pressure of perfection that is more akin to JO. There is nothing wrong with this. This could be her happy place.

I would love to move her to a different gym, but ODD is thriving at our current gym, and wouldn't be happy with a more relaxed program. Don't get me wrong - she has her own issues, and I don't agree with everything her coaches have done, like making her scratch when she wouldn't compete her tuck in silver, but over all she is happy and doing well. And there is no way the gym would go for the idea of us being at two different gyms. There is really only one other option with in 45 minutes, and the two gyms hate each other - won't even go to the same meets.

Xcel is not usually a 'path' toward college or elite gymnastics, so whether or not she puts in 100% mental effort and scores 38s or 70% and scores 35s, does it really matter in the long run if she is happy, fit, and fulfilled? If it doesn't matter to her, consider why it may matter to you (I ask myself this question as well, so I hear you, believe me).

This is a question I have been asking myself a lot lately. I want her to be happy. She compares herself to ODD, and always finds herself lacking. ODD is not perfect, believe me, but in YDD's mind she is. In our state, the girls have one meet to qualify for states., The rest of the season doesn't matter. If you are sick, too bad. If you have a bad meet, too bad. They take the top 190 from the meet, and that is that. ODD"s was last weekend, and she easily qualified. YDD's is tomorrow, and I think she is going to have a very hard time, unless something changes overnight. She is already at a disadvantage with the skills she is competing, because there is more for her to lose. I don't want her to compare herself to ODD and come up lacking, although at this point it is all her own doing, and maybe that will shake some sense into her.

 

[sevenatenine2]

I have a child in the same situation. Drove my crazy to not work to her potential. I have expressed willingness for her to do another sport, particular after a bad night, and she responded, "If you're going to MAKE me do SOMETHING, I might as well stay in gymnastics." She is the kid everything comes easily too and she has never had to work hard. She's the same kid to be perfectly happy with the 90 in Math and would much rather make a 90 with minimal effort than a 99 with full effort. We battled for years until I realized I can't change her, and I love her like crazy and don't want to fight with her all the time. Now I make guidelines of things I can't live with (no attitude, disrespect, etc.) and she does her thing within those parameters. She's still active, healthy, and happy.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

Does your gym have another track besides Xcel or JO? Some gyms have an AAU or IGC program and it's a little more laid back than even Xcel. Xcel can be laid back and fun but it doesn't sound like your gym treats it that way. Some of the problem seems to be a personality conflict between your dd and coach. Your dd seems like she wants to just have fun and the coach seems to have extremely high (perhaps unreasonably high) expectations for what should be a less intense program. 35's are not a score to be ashamed of and although I can understand the frustration of the coach when they know your dd is capable of more, I hardly think it qualifies for a weekly meeting about an "appalling lack of effort" unless your dd is being flat out disrespectful and that doesn't seem to be the case. If your dd moves up to gold next year will she get a different coach? If so that might be a good thing for her. If she's stuck with this coach, perhaps the coach could suggest some exercises for your dd to do at home that will perhaps help to reinforce muscle memory with straight legs, pointed toes, etc? At least that would be proactive and could possibly help. The coach continuing to berate her and you is probably making things worse at this point.

 

[mommyof1]

When I ask her, she says she is trying. I think there is a difference in her mind and the coaches. She feels she is trying since she picks skills up no problem, Her coach feels she is giving her the same corrections over and over, such as point your toes, and that she knows how to do it but is choosing not to.

My kid sometimes has this problem--she gets the same correction over and over and gets frustrated because she doesn't really understand what she's being asked to do and thinks she's making the correction, but the coach thinks she is refusing to do what she's being asked.

Another issue is really understanding what it means to "try." My daughter is about the same age as yours, and it's only in the past few months that she has really started to think analytically about what she's doing in the gym. Last season, she seemed to think that "trying" meant "really wanting to do the skill well and then throwing your body into the air and hoping it happens." This was not a successful approach. This season, she has come home saying things like, "I did a handstand on the beam that Coach really liked and I realized that it was because [I did this specific thing differently]. Then I did three more the same way and she liked them all. Now I am going to do that every time." I think it's a maturity thing--at some point their little brains just start to engage in a different way.

 

[coachmolly]

I think, to some extent, it's how the kid is wired. Some kids love the thrill of learning new skills and moving onto the next big thing and aren't too concerned about the details. They'll rush through assignments, wait around instead of taking an extra turn, forget corrections and need constant reminders. I don't think it's done to be deceptive (cheating) or rude, it's just how they operate. I don't think they even see it as doing less or not performing up to potential. When something comes along that really gets them going, they'll put in the work. I think this can be especially true of kids with tons of ability who don't necessarily have to work super hard to get the new skill. Though for all of them, the time will come when the skills get hard enough that they will need to step up or will find themselves left behind. It happens sooner for some kids than others.
I have a kid in my group who is slightly younger than your daughter, but sounds like they are personality twins. If there is a corner to cut, she'll find it. If she has the choice to take an extra turn or take off her grips early, she'll take the extra break time. Always the first done with an assignment, the kid you always have to stand near and double check her counting for conditioning. I can tell her 15 times to get her legs tight on her tumbling and it might happen once or twice (which I will praise her like crazy for and then not see again). I give her stern reminders to try her best, encourage her to make wise choices- but also realize she is who she is. At this point, she does well (always towards the top of the podium), she isn't a safety risk to herself or others, and she doesn't disrupt the rest of the group. So I let it go. When she chooses to cut corners I remind her of the consequences of that choice. I praise her on days when she puts forth the extra effort- even if extra effort for her looks like normal, everyday effort for her teammates. And I hope that someday she'll realize that with just a little extra effort she could be even better.

 

[momof2gymmies]

Does your gym have another track besides Xcel or JO? Some gyms have an AAU or IGC program and it's a little more laid back than even Xcel. Xcel can be laid back and fun but it doesn't sound like your gym treats it that way. Some of the problem seems to be a personality conflict between your dd and coach. Your dd seems like she wants to just have fun and the coach seems to have extremely high (perhaps unreasonably high) expectations for what should be a less intense program. 35's are not a score to be ashamed of and although I can understand the frustration of the coach when they know your dd is capable of more, I hardly think it qualifies for a weekly meeting about an "appalling lack of effort" unless your dd is being flat out disrespectful and that doesn't seem to be the case. If your dd moves up to gold next year will she get a different coach? If so that might be a good thing for her. If she's stuck with this coach, perhaps the coach could suggest some exercises for your dd to do at home that will perhaps help to reinforce muscle memory with straight legs, pointed toes, etc? At least that would be proactive and could possibly help. The coach continuing to berate her and you is probably making things worse at this point.

No, just JO and xcel, although there are two different xcel groups that practice on different days/different amount of time. I asked about switching groups but was told no, she is in the group that she is in, no changing. And no, she won't move to gold next year. They are required to do two years per level.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Okay, my 2 cents for what it is worth. I would find a new gym for your daughter
Her skill level is above Silver and she has no business competing it again
Xcel is good for kids who want to be skill getters rather than the skill perfection required in JO. Your daughter seems to fit that description. Competing a lower level than she should could foster the lackadaisical attitude she has. No need to work hard. I can already do that.....
The coaches are treating Xcel like a JO program, and if that is what Dd wanted, she would be doing it.
Utimately, this is all supposed to be fun. It can't be fun for anyone in what you describe. She is not changing anytime soon, and neither is the coach, so I would try and find a better fit that promotes fun and happiness. I know that is way easier said than done.

 

[momof2gymmies]

Okay, my 2 cents for what it is worth. I would find a new gym for your daughter
Her skill level is above Silver and she has no business competing it again
Xcel is good for kids who want to be skill getters rather than the skill perfection required in JO. Your daughter seems to fit that description. Competing a lower level than she should could foster the lackadaisical attitude she has. No need to work hard. I can already do that.....
The coaches are treating Xcel like a JO program, and if that is what Dd wanted, she would be doing it.
Utimately, this is all supposed to be fun. It can't be fun for anyone in what you describe. She is not changing anytime soon, and neither is the coach, so I would try and find a better fit that promotes fun and happiness. I know that is way easier said than done.

I am starting to think that this may be what I need to do. She will 100%, without a doubt repeat silver next year. We have girls who win regionals repeat. She doesn't have the choice of JO at our gym. She was too old when she started team. So only choice was/is xcel. There is no cross over. Not that she would want it - she clearly does not like to point her toes.

 

[flipster]

Ask your dd if she thinks that the coach still believes in her. If the answer is 'no', it is the reason and a deal breaker. Does she complain about the coach also? Can be that things ran their course and change is needed.

 

[rosiekat]

I have a son who is younger but other than that, basically everything you have said can apply to him. He has real innate talent, and he does work hard - I don't want to belittle that - but could be a real contender if he listened better. He loves and lives for gym, so it isn't that. He's just the kid who is content with doing enough and doesn't crave perfection. He likes learning the new skills, not perfecting the old. What finally helped it click a bit for him was when he didn't do as well in "his event" at a meet. He has been first in high bar in every single meet he has been in, until the last one. He had really prided himself on that record, and even though he came in second (to a teammate, no less), he was crushed. (It didn't matter to him that he placed in every other event and was on the podium for AA.) That seemed to help him understand that every tiny little thing matters, and that even though his high bar was and is fantastic, it can still be better.

He hasn't had another meet yet, but I do think I've seen him turn some things around in practice. Basically, until it hits a kid like this where it hurts, they won't change. It's hard for me to see, because I am naturally a perfectionist and so is DH. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that maybe DS has seen that if he wants to do as well as he says he wants to, he does have to worry about all those tiny details and not just the big skills.

 

[GymRays]

To answer some questions, no she hasn't grown at all. She is a peanut, not quite hitting 50 pounds. She is competing silver, but at our gym, xcel is very competitive. She is doing robhsbhs and a ft on floor, bwo, full turn and cartwheel back tuck dismount on beam, and kips on both bars, so I would guess between L 4 and 5?

She doesn't love her coach. She had two different ones last year, and both left the gym, She adored them, so that might have something to do with it. I know ODD feels the same way, but has a different personality, so she works hard regardless.

When I ask her, she says she is trying. I think there is a difference in her mind and the coaches. She feels she is trying since she picks skills up no problem, Her coach feels she is giving her the same corrections over and over, such as point your toes, and that she knows how to do it but is choosing not to.

She is still a silver? If she scored 38s and is doing the same stuff again....Is she bored, not challenged? The skills she is doing could easily be gold. Are they not letting her move up because of the "lack of effort" cause that may be the cause of the lack of effort. Just a thought.