Parents "Pigeon-holing" Programs

[Sasha]

After DD switched to L4, I was asked by many if JO was different and of course it is! Her progression was slowed down compared to what the Xcel kids do and so much more time is spent on strength/conditioning.

To the OP, I know I have contributed my own take on Xcel to different threads based on what our state/gym does - hopefully it was understood not to be a sweeping statement for all areas, but I'll make sure to emphasize that more

Nutter's post above (bolded) is one observation I have made on threads, related also to the 'form' comparison. In our gym (and area) JO girls must perfect skills (meaning with great form) before moving on to learning new ones, while the Xcel girls may continue to add new skills while form may be still less than ideal - in the interest of keeping it progressing, inclusive, and fun for a wide variety of talents. Definitely, the IDEAL form is the SAME in both programs, yes! And taught the same, but simply with the lower hours of Xcel by design (our Silver practices 4 hours per week compared to 16 hours of L4-5; Gold practices 5-6 hours per week compared to 20 hours of L6+), most Xcel girls in our area won't accomplish the polished look of the JO girls in the reduced hours model - at least not at the early Xcel levels.

So that was the basis for my previous forms comparison - not that form isn't important to Xcel, or that girls in Xcel aren't capable of good form, but in our area, it is an explicitly-stated difference between the programs ("Xcel has more emphasis on skill progression than on perfecting form"), which is actually written in a comparison chart on our gym wall to help parents decide between programs.

I think Xcel is an amazing choice for many reasons. My DD has chosen JO, but I would switch her in a heartbeat and cheer just as loudly if she decided she wanted more balance in her life.

 

[Taximother]

At our gym, it was explained that they use the Excel program for girls who have skills progressing at different rates. So a girl may be struggling to get her kip but is ready to do the BWO on the beam. It's also an option for girls on higher levels when they are afraid to learn new skills but still want to compete. I'm not sure about Diamond and Platinum but Gold practices the same number of hours as my dd's Level 4 team and they often practice together. Excel is not considered an inferior program at our gym and they have competed at most of the same meets as JO this season with the same judges. One of the frustrations I've heard for Gold is that there haven't been a lot of teams from other gyms with girls in the same age groups so not much outside competition.

 

[kmc]

My DD has been on both the JO side, and now the Xcel side. It has been a long road at our gym, as in the three years that DD has been there, we've had three HC changes and one gym owner change. Each new HC would have a different view of what Xcel was to be. I am happy to say that in this last year, our Xcel program, as well as in our state, has really grown and is very competitive. In fact, in four of our meets this year, there were 20-30 girls in DD's age group, more than when she competed old L3/new L4

At our gym, our Silver and Gold girls practice nine hours a week, the same as our Level 3s. We share the same coaches, so the instruction is the same. We go to several of the same meets. The routines that the girls do are at the top end of what is allowed at each level. For example, DD is Silver, does a ROBHSBT in her floor routine, a BWO on the beam, and FHC and squat on to high bar on bars. All girls do more than the required elements, which can lead to more deductions, but our girls still do very well.

Xcel has been wonderful for DD, as her strengths are tumbling and no fear (at this point!) and her weakness is form, which is slowly improving. After two years in JO, and rarely placing, gymnastics began to be frustrating for her. Switching to Xcel allows her to do routines that highlight her strengths, and she is in love with it again. She also plays travel softball, so only having gym nine hours a week is a plus.

The only issue I have is that our gym is not good regarding communication, so the JO parents had no idea what Xcel was when the program started. It was (and still is, to some extent) looked at as an inferior program. I understand raendrop's frustration, because I feel like I am constantly and patiently trying to explain the program to other gym parents, and having to justify that my daughter is a gymnast and works hard at it, too, just like their DD. Most of the time, I am happy to do it, because I think the Xcel program allows so many more girls to experience competitive gymnastics. But, I'll admit, there are days when I wish others at our gym could just appreciate my daughter for she is doing, and not worry about "track" she is on.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

We have a few decent YMCA programs around here in So Cal !

 

[OzZee]

Different here (Australia) as we have different programs but yes I agree. We have (at the moment) three streams - International, national and state. (ie to aim to compete at those levels). And the IDP lot seem to look down on the NDP lot, though I see many more ndp gymnasts having longer and more fun 'gym careers', state stream is looked down on and is being stopped. What about all those gymnasts who want to do another sport, not train stupid hours in gymnastics, do whatever else but still want to do gymnastics and compete. The ethos of state stream (like I imagine excel) is great. Less hours, enjoy it. There is a bit for higher levels in state stream requirements that they actually say they don't expect every girl to compete all 4 apparatus.
People seem to always comment that kids want to get out of rec or move up a stream. Not all kids want this. My eldest is a very happy rec gymnast. She has no desire to compete (despite being asked to) and enjoys the fun and fitness added to her other interests.
My youngest is quite competitive and loves gymnastics. But turned down IDP and will have to move out of ndp, pity they are stopping the state stream as she could have continued doing something she loves much longer. But WAG is just not her top priority.

 

[sevenatenine2]

I wonder if you took a gymnast like my daughter and looked four years in the future for both tracks, which would be the best outcome?

My daughter is a 9 year old Level 3 who does well at the sport (35s and occasionally 36s). Her skills are all technically sound and she has a lot of power and adequate strength. Her weakness are sometimes her legs have a tiny bit of a bend, sometimes she's a little archy, and sometimes (okay, often) she points her toes and not her foot. I anticipate she'll compete Level 4 next year and a LOT of time will be spent trying to perfect the skills. Her favorite part of gymnastics is learning the new school and she HATES the repetitive practice of dong something over and over again, which for her is necessary to make something as close to perfect as it can be. Again, when she does it after learning it, it's not bad or super sloppy or tragic looking, it's just not always perfect.

In an EXCEL environment, she would get to continue to learn new skills while trying to perfect other ones. She's not going to get much more deductions doing two back handsprings instead of one because they are strong, her toes are just flexed. In the future, I'm thinking her layout won't get a lot more deductions than her tuck, because they may both have the same slight form issues. I'm thinking an EXCEL environment would probably make her a BETTER gymnast, because her skills would develop faster and she wouldn't be spending so much time trying to fix small form issues that really, don't EVER go away for her, no matter how hard she works.

What I see a lot of, and I do understand the annoyance, are parents with children like mine that feel superior to other parents of children like mine because they've chosen to stay JO while others may go EXCEL. To me, a kid that is repeating 3 and then repeating or doing just okay in 4 and so on, isn't in a superior position than a kid in EXCEL that is making progress and still learning. Nobody's is talking about the phenoms, I don't think. Take whatever road works best for your family, but I don't think one is superior, I really don't.

Also, from my personal experience as an athlete, as my skills progressed and got more difficult (I was about a Level 5 when this happened, had gotten a kip, back tuck, working back walkover on beam), I was able to get a better body awareness (through theses skills? I'm not sure?) to help my increase my form as I progressed up the optional levels. Would that have happened if I'd stayed at Level 4 for a couple of years? I'm thinking probably not.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i love gymnastics. no matter who is doing it or where. and as Midwestmommy pointed out, it is very sad to me that her office workers do not know who Simone Biles is.

 

[rjb123]

It makes me sad to see people feel like they need to defend their program. You know, IMO it is super easy to go all CGM over stuff- at least for me. But when I take a step back and look at the big picture, none of that "stuff" (JO vs Excell, vs Y) in the end is quite as important as our kids loving a sport, learning discipline, the value and reward of hard work, how to be a part of a team, how to win AND lose with grace and dignity, and good sportsmanship. These are IMO the MOST important things our kids are getting from gymnastics! To me, it is not about DD making it to L10, L8, elite or any of that. It is just about her loving a sport and me having the opportunity to watch her grow in SO many ways through participating in it.

 

[cbifoja]

I don't see programs as "better" or "worse" but rather having different goals and often time, different limitations. No program can be everything to all people....so you choose your goals and your path. Our gym has decided not to focus on Xcel and we dropped the program this year. Our owner decided that this wasn't a path she wanted to go down so she requires the higher hours for the "team" to be competitive with the other JO girls in our area.

Heck, our local Y program doesn't even compete. The first time I came into the knowledge that some Ys compete is when we did a meet in Ohio last year!

 

[raenndrops]

@rjb123
I only defend because I do love that she loves this sport. She often reads Chalkbucket even though she can't join. She gets upset when people seem to be putting down YMCA programs or Xcel. I don't think it should matter what route a gymnast takes to get to where that gymnast wants to be either, but sometimes it seems that in the US system, unless you are at a private gym and paying hundreds of dollars a month, your way of MAKING it is not seen as "good enough" for anyone with potential... even though that potential can take you far, even if you chose Xcel... or a YMCA program - as long as you choose the right one.
We have girls on our team that have come from private clubs and we have girls that have left to go to private clubs... One of those came back to us after over a year with a club because our program suited her better. It truly is all about finding the best option for each gymnast!

 

[Bajanswife]

I wish we had Xcel! DD has reached the point now where she's reluctant to commit so many hours of her week to gymnastics, but she still likes it as a sport. She would love to keep training skills, but not the number of hours it would take for her to be truly competitive in JO levels 6+. If Xcel were an option, with a maximum of 3-days per week of training, she'd jump at it.

A program with less training hours per week is going to do one of 2 things: either the girls will be less polished because there isn't as much time to devote to form (if the program focuses on skills), or they will progress more slowly through the levels (if it focuses just as much on proper form). Perhaps different gyms are focusing on different aspects. And perhaps some gyms are offering their Xcel girls just as much training time if they want it (and therefore those girls might develop on par with the JO girls). It just seems like there are wide variations in how the program operates.

 

[raenndrops]

@Bajanswife "It just seems like there are wide variations in how the program operates."
EXACTLY!

 

[balancedmom]

As a mom if a daughter who competed a regional league ( that seems ssimilar to excel- less focused on form and more on skills and each kids strengths) and is now doing her first year at usag, I can see the clear differences. While we wanted her and she wanted to compete usag, it has made clear that my daughter who loves gymnastics does not have the form to be competitive yet at usag. She wants to get the form but it may be a long road, and I have questioned whether she would be better off in the less competitive league.

 

[Quadqueen]

In regards to XCel, it should be noted that while in some areas of the country it is very competitive, and/or used as a bridge to optionals or in place of some levels, it is not that way in other parts of the country. Here, there is little crossover from XCel to JO and vice versa. At many gyms, once you are XCel, there is little chance you will have the option to move to JO, if that is what you desire. So, when someone posted recently about their struggling 6 year old, asking if they should have her do XCel, I did say, I think it's too early to go the XCel route if that is not what the parent/child wants. I said that from my own experience....she could put her kid in XCel at 6 and have no way out at some gyms. I know, that's fine and wonderful for many kids, based on their desires/situation, but I wouldn't want anyone to be stuck in whatever they choose, and that does happen.

 

[sevenatenine2]

I mean this in all sincerity, since I really do want to understand, why do some teams place an age limit on the kids that can go to their USA meets?

We compete in a state league that competes USA routines scored by USA judges. At the lower levels, there is very little, if any differences in the competitions. One gym that is very successful in USA has a team of maybe 10 year olds competing at a low compulsory level that are outstanding. They look as good as any USA team I've ever seen. Scoring 37s and 38s. Their coaching is outstanding and they really outclass the field.

They may not want to compete USA, but I got the feeling they were just too old to do so at their gym. Why? I can see they may be too old to compete Elite, but I can see them getting to Level 8-9. Why is that a waste? They're obviously getting outstanding coaching, so it's not that their coaching staff is stretched too thin and they don't have someone to coach them. I think they could win team titles at USA meets, and even if they didn't, it's only the top 3 or 6 scores that count, so the original USA kids could carry the team score even if these kids didn't do that well. What's the rationale there?