WAG Question Regarding Competing at Levels

[Deleted member 18037]

To be clear, the timeline is not an issue. My daughters team all competed their last L4 meet Feb of last year. They will be doing 6/7 this spring, essentially a year. And by fall, essentially 18 months to go, from 4 to 7 or 8. That will depend hugely on how all their uptraining goes this summer, from May-Sept. But realistically possible and probable for most. And actually they have more time because after L6 here there are no winter/early states. So what will likely happen is the kids not ready for 7 or 8 by fall 2017, will be by winter/spring 2018. Again in theory, barring injuries and blocks.

So timewise it is entirely possible. But our gym wouldn't have had them not do L4 states last feb. Yet had them do L5 and L6 this season. Then have them do a L4 meet to qualify and go to states for L4 this May, and sweep the podium. Then do L7 or L8 in Oct. That wouldn't be right.

 

[SeaActually]

It's not as cut and dry, and you can even move from 6 to 5...have seen it done. One girl on my child's team came from another gym and even competed states as a 6...and has started the season at 5 (will probably move back to 6 by next meet). So, as the saying goes, anything can happen...supposedly though it gets sticky once you do level 7.

Would hate to go from 6 to 5...

 

[Gymmommy71]

Some gyms use the fallback to a lower level as a motivation tool. We'll try you as a L7 at this meet and if you don't get a 37 and win your age division you're doing L4 for states. Stuff like that. My DD has never been at a gym that does this stuff - which is a good thing cause I don't think she'd respond very well to it - but it does work well for some types of kids.

 

[duyetanh]

Would hate to go from 6 to 5...

I know...right?
Glad we didn't deal with that at our house. Ooh boy...it would be ugly.

 

[e'smum]

Some gyms use the fallback to a lower level as a motivation tool. We'll try you as a L7 at this meet and if you don't get a 37 and win your age division you're doing L4 for states. Stuff like that. My DD has never been at a gym that does this stuff - which is a good thing cause I don't think she'd respond very well to it - but it does work well for some types of kids.

what?!? who does that? other than the very top gymnasts, most aren't going in and getting a 37 at their very first meet. that's crazy to me. lol nothing like putting pressure on a kid like that.

 

[Sasha]

Ok, so given that this IS possible (thanks for correcting my mis-info), the scenario I could see is...

Talented (or maybe older and trying to mover her more quickly) L4 girl they are targeting to go from L4 to L7 in one season (not uncommon).
The gym doesn't do L6 (lots of gyms don't), or reserves L6 for girls who 'don't make' the targeted L7.
Girl has L4 routines great, and the 'minimum' skills for L5 to make the easy score-out criteria, so might as well kill 2 birds this year to keep options open.
L5 is super tough scoring-wise, though, so they choose to compete the girl where she will have most success with routines she can already perform confidently, and maybe because they want her for team scores in L4 with a weaker team this season, who knows. There are some things in L5 like the baby giant that must be perfected to score well, but could be skipped if targeting optionals (of course a super talented girl would probably ace the baby giant, but who knows). Maybe her FHS vault is so-so for tough L5, but she is doing well with Tsuk and Yurcheko timers and already connecting beam acro elements or has exquisite tumbling beyond L5. Perhaps they want to skip the above-horizontal L5 straight cast to go with a straddle cast for L7 instead. So they would focus efforts during season less on drilling perfect L5 routines, and more on building L7 skills. They could have waited to score out of L5 until the beginning of the next season, but if there is an opp, why wait?

Could that be a suitable scenario? (disclaimer: just a hypothesizing parent!)

 

[vans2]

I've seen this happen. (Region 1, California - that may not matter): http://www.mymeetscores.com/gymnast.pl?gymnastid=21434065. This girl went lvl 4, competed a couple of meets as a 5, scored out, but then finished the season as a 4. Mind you she competed lvl 4 at States not lvl 5.

 

[dancingimmie]

Just my two cents but that doesn't seem right to me. If a gymnast makes the mobility score at a level 5 meet she shouldn't be able to go down a level for states. If she didn't meet the score requirement I can see moving her back down, otherwise it looks like sand bagging to me.
My dd did one meet as a level 4, competed 2 meets level 5 and will go to level 5 states in two weeks with the hope of being ready for level 7 next season. Her gym would never have her compete at the level 4 state meet unless she couldn't qualify as a 5.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Ok, so given that this IS possible (thanks for correcting my mis-info), the scenario I could see is...

Talented (or maybe older and trying to mover her more quickly) L4 girl they are targeting to go from L4 to L7 in one season (not uncommon).
The gym doesn't do L6 (lots of gyms don't), or reserves L6 for girls who 'don't make' the targeted L7.
Girl has L4 routines great, and the 'minimum' skills for L5 to make the easy score-out criteria, so might as well kill 2 birds this year to keep options open.
L5 is super tough scoring-wise, though, so they choose to compete the girl where she will have most success with routines she can already perform confidently, and maybe because they want her for team scores in L4 with a weaker team this season, who knows. There are some things in L5 like the baby giant that must be perfected to score well, but could be skipped if targeting optionals (of course a super talented girl would probably ace the baby giant, but who knows). Maybe her FHS vault is so-so for tough L5, but she is doing well with Tsuk and Yurcheko timers and already connecting beam acro elements or has exquisite tumbling beyond L5. Perhaps they want to skip the above-horizontal L5 straight cast to go with a straddle cast for L7 instead. So they would focus efforts during season less on drilling perfect L5 routines, and more on building L7 skills. They could have waited to score out of L5 until the beginning of the next season, but if there is an opp, why wait?

Could that be a suitable scenario? (disclaimer: just a hypothesizing parent!)

All that is great. And possible. And that gymmie shouldn't be L4. Its deal with the scores of the level you are actually at. JM humble mid level parent opinion.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Just my two cents but that doesn't seem right to me. If a gymnast makes the mobility score at a level 5 meet she shouldn't be able to go down a level for states. If she didn't meet the score requirement I can see moving her back down, otherwise it looks like sand bagging to me.
My dd did one meet as a level 4, competed 2 meets level 5 and will go to level 5 states in two weeks with the hope of being ready for level 7 next season. Her gym would never have her compete at the level 4 state meet unless she couldn't qualify as a 5.

Yep ours too.

Really its L4, silly

 

[gymdog]

The answer is most likely yes, although whether they can do a full level 4 season including states would depend a bit on the timing of the level 5 meet. Based on how you described it, it doesn't seem like it would be a problem if the level 5 meet is prior to the start of the season. Counter-intuitive, but technically allowed.

 

[Texasmomof3]

This happened to my dd at L4. She competed level 4 states against a group of level 7 girls. But to have it make sense you have to realize that in Texas, compulsories are in the fall and optionals in winter/spring.

This gym has their girls compete 4 and then do a quick level 5 score out meet. Then the girls begin training for level 7. Their level 4 scores qualify them to district, regionals and state in level 4. So they do those meets in the fall. States are around thanksgiving. Then in January, the girls all compete level 7.

The gym does it to win states every year at level 4 with their second year level 4 team. They were a million times better than any other level 4 kid. At first I didn't believe dd when she told me they were really level 7s. But we looked them up a few months later on mymeetscores, and it was true.

 

[gymnastmom05]

I've seen this happen. (Region 1, California - that may not matter): http://www.mymeetscores.com/gymnast.pl?gymnastid=21434065. This girl went lvl 4, competed a couple of meets as a 5, scored out, but then finished the season as a 4. Mind you she competed lvl 4 at States not lvl 5.

To me, this poor girl looks like she was the product of a bad decision made by the coaches/gym/parents (who knows who is making the decision). Her bar score was so low at Level 5. I know we've had parents on our team that wanted their kid pushed to the next level despite a coach saying they're lacking in a certain area. Maybe this was their way to prove she wasn't ready? Just the first thought I had when I saw what her actual scores were.

 

[gymnastmom05]

i don't understand it either. why would any gymnast do that? the difference between level 4 and level 7 skills are huge. what possible advantage would a gymnast have for doing that? why would they just not compete level 7 at those meets vs. going back and doing level 4?

i also don't understand why girls who have scored 36's+ are competing a 2nd year in that same level. some of the girls that dd went up against last year as a 4 are still 4s. so weird. IMO, time to move up.

i thought that once you did a mobility meet with the purposed of moving up to another level, then you were in that level and couldn't go back. or wouldn't want to anyway!

We've had a few girls stay at the same level even though they were great at that level, they were still missing something for the next level. Usually for us it's been serious problems on bars or huge mental block with going backwards on beam (and sometimes floor as well).

 

[e'smum]

We've had a few girls stay at the same level even though they were great at that level, they were still missing something for the next level. Usually for us it's been serious problems on bars or huge mental block with going backwards on beam (and sometimes floor as well).

yeah, no. the girls i'm thinking of scored 9s across the board with 36's being their AA score in many of their meets. they go on to a 2nd year in level 2. in fact, i remember dd going up against them in some meets. their skill level was probably a little bit better than my dd b/c my dd is loosey goosey on the beam and needs a tighter form and higher jumps on both beam and floor. and this year my gymmie is in level 6 (got 1st in the AA at our last meet with a 36+ score) going to level 7 next year and those girls are still in level 4. scoring high 36's and into the 37 range. in my region, getting a 37 or 38 is not normal. 36's are usually the range of the top girls. IMO, there is no reason why those girls would stay in lvl 4 a 2nd year. they already got top spots in awards last year!

on a side note - the HC told the 6s that there will be no 2nd year level 6s this year. so i'm guessing you either move to 7 or higher or go to excel. we have a great level 6 team this year so i think they will all be moving to level 7 next year anyway. lvl 6 is the one time in our gym that scores don't matter. and aren't an indicator of if you are moving up or not, it's skills. you either get them or you don't.

 

[e'smum]

This happened to my dd at L4. She competed level 4 states against a group of level 7 girls. But to have it make sense you have to realize that in Texas, compulsories are in the fall and optionals in winter/spring.

This gym has their girls compete 4 and then do a quick level 5 score out meet. Then the girls begin training for level 7. Their level 4 scores qualify them to district, regionals and state in level 4. So they do those meets in the fall. States are around thanksgiving. Then in January, the girls all compete level 7.

The gym does it to win states every year at level 4 with their second year level 4 team. They were a million times better than any other level 4 kid. At first I didn't believe dd when she told me they were really level 7s. But we looked them up a few months later on mymeetscores, and it was true.

very interesting how texas does their meets! is it because there are so many kids in gymnastics in that state? i don't think that's right that the gym does that. and it's level *4*. plus, those girls go a full year of competing w/o a break. shoot, as a parent, i would need a break from that! lol

 

[GymMom4]

very interesting how texas does their meets! is it because there are so many kids in gymnastics in that state? i don't think that's right that the gym does that. and it's level *4*. plus, those girls go a full year of competing w/o a break. shoot, as a parent, i would need a break from that! lol

We are in Texas, too, and our gym does not repeat levels unless the girls are absolutely not ready to move up. There is a local gym, though, that does commonly repeat levels and only sends their second year 4s to State. We know some who did very well at L4 State who are training level 6/7/8 skills but are planning to compete 5 in the fall.

 

[l.c.o]

I don't 'have any more info than what's been said here, but I am curious why a gym would have a girl score out of L5 and then compete L4? or even why compete level 4 while preparing for Level 7?
Typically what I've seen, if a gym is pushing someone through levels, they score out, and never look back.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be negative, just honestly curious why it might be done.
I could see if a girl scores out of L5, barely, and not ready for L6/7, then they might pull her back to compete Level 4 again for a successful year or such.

We have an area gym or two that does this. I assumed that they did it as they did not wish to compete a full season of L5, but wanted a score boost for a final compulsory season...

 

[AvatheAcrobat]

At my gym we have our gymnasts compete level six--of course after doing one lvl five sanctioned meet--mainly because the standards for lvl six seem a bit easier than five. I was passing through level five at a meet and I did not do too well (the pressure was too much and I lost some skills). I did finish out the season as a lvl four. A gymnast is allowed to go back as long as they have not competed at states for that lvl.

 

[GYM0M]

We are in Texas, too, and our gym does not repeat levels unless the girls are absolutely not ready to move up. There is a local gym, though, that does commonly repeat levels and only sends their second year 4s to State. We know some who did very well at L4 State who are training level 6/7/8 skills but are planning to compete 5 in the fall.

In all fairness to the local gym, it may only be the 2nd year L4's who advance to state in Texas. L4 state is the HARDEST to qualify for in Texas. The year my DD competed L4, in the Jr A division, the lowest score to qualify to states was a 36.1. Our gym makes a decision based on the individual gymnast if they move up from L3 to 4, 4 to 5, 4 to 6/7. Our TOPS girls do L4 in the fall bc of National Testing and such, score out of 5, then go onto 6/7 in Spring.