Questions about the Uk Gymnastics System

[Ex member]

Now my youngest dd has moved out of rec into a development class I have got a few questions about the UK system.

From these development classes where do gymnastics tend to go? From what I have seen at dd's gym there is groups for Grade work and also another group that used to be a Floor and Vault group but now incorporate beam and bars into their training, the old floor and vault group do not to grade work but do compete in local competitions - the last one they did was a floor and trampete competition. The gym also does advanced Rec classes (not advertised) and they train during the hours that other rec girls do except they do 2 hours once a week (4pm -6pm and another set if girls do 1pm to 3pm on a Saturday). My dd goes once a week for 2 1/2 hours and her class spends their time doing nearly a hour of conditioning and then work on bars (pullovers into front support and then casts before doing a forward roll over the bar - last week they also done something on a single yellow training bar where they had to jump in a straddle and get their feet on the bars in a straddle and fall back onto a wedge mat keeping feet on bars if they could). They also spend a lot of time on the beam doing cat lepas and other jumps like tuck jumps and straddle jumps and arabesque balance and they also do something where they sit on the beam and lean back with their hands behind them on the beam and lift their legs straight up as high as they can. They don't do much floor work and finish the session with more stretches. Is it normal for the gymnasts to not do floor as much (they get around 10mins compared to around 30 mins each on beam and vault).

I am guessing that dd is doing well enough at the moment as she will be returning to this class after the Christmas break (she has 1 week off and goes back on 2nd January) and they didn't say anything about moving back to rec but on the other hand they don't really give you a progress report, dd has been doing her new class for 6 weeks (4 sessions due to one being cancelled as they did a fundraising eventand another class been cancelled due to the gym closing due to a flood alert), I am hoping her trial period is over as they should have had enough time to see if she is suitable to continue or go back to rec.

How do thing s work in your gym after girls move from rec, what sort of path do they follow from there? Sometimes I do envy the USA system as it more clear cut, from what I have seen of the UK system it is very confusing.

 

[Faith]

It completely depends on the gym and their coaches as to how kids are selected and progress.

It's another downfall of the uk system (IMO!). It's one coaches preference for body type, power, flexibility...

In our gym most kids started in "development"- once a week pre-team, with basic strength and conditioning. Once they had an idea you got moved to the appropriate squad- floor and vault, club wag, or elite wag.

But honestly TD, the best thing to do is let your dd and her coaches get on with it. As long as you are happy with the gym and the coaching, you'll only stress yourself! Kids just don't get moved back to rec unless they want to- practically every kid is capable of competing f&v, so she'll do that at least...

 

[Ex member]

Thanks for your reply, I am not as stressed now as I was when she first started this new group, I have been reading some of the archived forums and have noticed that you've been around for a while and had a dd move through the development groups so I trust your opinion and appreciate it. I realise that I don't know anything about gymnastics structure outside of rec, the group my dd is in has girls that are 2-3 years older than dd and 2 of then have been there for around a year, there are 4 girls in the group at the moment including my dd. I quite like having my dd with them as she looks up to the older girls and she feeds off them and wants to do what they can do, it is nice to be at the bottom of the gymnastics ladder and I am excited for the year ahead, looking forward towatching dd progress and learn things she wouldn't have achieved in rec.

I have an older dd in gymnastics who is in the disability squad and things are very clear cut there, she has a week off for Christmas and has to do some conditioning and when she goes back they will be training for a competition which is in February and they are also doing grade work and range and conditioning in preparation for Disability Artistic NDP at Easter and possibly the Disability British Championships at the end of the year.

 

[Flossyduck]

As Faith said, it does depend on the gym and what sort of pathways they compete and how they structure things. I have a feeling you said that there was more than one development group at your gym? Or was it just age related? I think you said it's a big and successful club so they compete various streams.

At our gym they have a grades development group and a levels development group, although there is still crossover up until after level 5/grade 14. At other gyms the girls are all in development together until they decide what they will competing.

Ours do spend much more time on equipment, even now. They rarely do pure 'floor' - although they tumble on track and fast track, but if your dd is not tumbling yet then conditioning and basics on floor and becoming confident on equipment sounds very similar and certainly similar to what I see our development girls doing. I'm guessing they cover the basics like handstands.

At this stage the reality is that there is little you can do to influence things, other than support your dd. Just be aware that development groups are very fluid. You mention the older ones in the group being important, but presumably they will move out at some point soon to enter their competition squad and younger girls will filter through. At some point your dd may be the oldest and most experienced one in there!

But it's all good.

 

[Ex member]

From what I have seen these are the following classes -
1 hour a week Rec Classes
2 hours Advance Rec classes
Pre Development - Age 4-6
Varioius Development classes for over 6 - Various hours
Old floor and Vault Class Age around 6 plus - 2 1\2 hours twice a week
Performance Squad
County Squad

I am not sure if dd works on handstands or not, she did metion doing a handstand against the wall during conditioning which she calls an upside down chair handstand. I haven't seen dd doing any floor stuff only bar work and beam work but she did mention doing forward rolls in her first class, they seem to concentrate on conditioning and beam and bar with form.

 

[xrachx]

It seems to massively differ from club to club from what I've been told, and the candid response I've been given is it depends on what the coaches can be bothered to do.

DDs old gym, once you reach BG gold, that's it, there was nowhere else to go even if you're on the team.

New gym however, they compete from advanced rec upwards, get kids through the regional grading etc. The only major difference between advanced, development, team etc is the amount of time in the gym. Rotations are all the same, same 5 way split of conditioning, bars, vault, beam and floor. They allow the kids to work to whatever their ability level is, rather than making everyone do the exact same drill, and so far it really seems to work well

 

[Iwannabemargo]

what she said

Mine did rec twice a week, P&F got to badge 5 and then went 3 days a week and started competing - she has never gone past badge 5.

In our county they compete F&V novice (about level 6/7) then 4 piece novice, F&V Development (level 6) 4 piece, 4 Piece Intermediate (level 5/4) 4 Piece County (level 4/3).

The county is now moving towards levels, however we always were 20 years behind the rest of the country !

 

[Rapunzel]

Ours has a few rec comps a year - 1s f&v that's restricted to gymnasts who do less than 2hrs/wk, then there's 2 x 5 piece comps that are restricted to gymnasts who do less than 4hrs/wk. After that I think it's novice f&v, but I'm not sure how it works after that.
Can I ask a linked question re floor & vault? If a child moved to novice floor & vault what happens with bar & beam - do they drop that completely or continue that with less focus?

 

[Jenny]

Can I ask a linked question re floor & vault? If a child moved to novice floor & vault what happens with bar & beam - do they drop that completely or continue that with less focus?

Could be either. There are groups/ clubs that only work floor and vault usually in a school or sports hall with less equipment. Most clubs with full equipment let their floor and vaulters have time on the apparatus.

Some of it depends on your region. Some regions have a lot of floor and vault competitions some have very few, some come entirely under recreational (or general gymnastics, or gymnastics for all) some floor and vault competitions come under a more competitive strand which leads to 4 piece.

In some regions you can only compete floor and vault if you train less than a certain number of hours and in some you cannot compete floor and vault once you have competed a 4 piece competition or regional grade. In other regions you can swap between the two.

I am glad there isn't a BG set of regulations for this as different clubs and regions have such different needs at this level. Hopefully clubs look to their local need and accommodate them.

 

[Jenny]

It seems to massively differ from club to club from what I've been told, and the candid response I've been given is it depends on what the coaches can be bothered to do.

Oh that is really sad. The rec coaches and programmes I know are very invested in the children and what they can offer them.

 

[Rapunzel]

Thanks Jenny. She's still spending time on bars & beam so is happy with that, hopefully it'll continue. It's a shame that doesn't happen at all gyms.
Her favourite piece is beam.

 

[Ex member]

The gymnastics club that my dd's go to use to run a Floor and Vault group, this group now uses beam and bar but compete in floor and trampete competitions and do the same hours and days as they used to when it was just floor and vault. My oldest dd is in the disability squad and they are training towards their NDP grades, compete floor and vault at some competitions and also my oldest dd has competed in a competition when she did trampoline, floor, beam and vault (it was her first competition).

The gym had a future stars competition earlier this year and invited other gyms to take part, it was open to recreational children, some development children and the disabilities group competing a set floor and vault routine levels 1-3 ( levels were decided by year of birth).

 

[xrachx]

I was told openly by a coach that the rec kids are basically seen as the cash cow to fund the teams.
DDs former club in particular, the HC has been known to tell rec parents who've questioned the lack of progression into advanced/team, that if they don't like it, go elsewhere as they have a huge waiting list of kids wanting to start rec

 

[Rapunzel]

I've heard that too xrachx, it makes sense and I assume the more hours a gymnast trains the less the hourly rate is.
It doesn't matter where a child ends up as long as they're enjoying it. I saw some stats (maybe on here), 10% make it further than rec and of those 10% only 1% make elite.
For me the gymnastics is about encouraging my children to do regular exercise in an area they enjoy (I have to remind myself of that sometimes). I think a lot of parents think their child may not reach full potential (me included if Im totally honest) but as long as they're smiling that's all that matters. (But I understand that it can be frustrating to have potential that isn't met)
Rec should be about no pressure - it should be accessible to all - the child who's never going to get a perfect handspring but still smiling to the one who makes it to the Olympics - it's really important (as well as a money spinner for the club).

 

[Iwannabemargo]

hmmm, well I use to teach rec, and tbh I have NEVER thought of it like that. The plain fact is that 95% of the children I have seen in rec, have great fun but will never make it past that stage - my son included. The do not have the drive, or natural aptitude to progress much further. There are some with drive but no natural talent, who make it to local competitive fairly successfully, I can think of two girls on our team like that, they compete level 5 and are teenagers.

Yes Rec does fund team - otherwise team would be unaffordable, however all the clubs I know nurture all their gymnasts to their highest potential.

I think however most clubs 9and gymnastics in general) have communication problems and more information about the pathways open to the gymnasts and their progress along them would help parents a lot.

 

[Rapunzel]

I don't think I articulated myself very well - rec is about the fun and is really important to the club for more reasons than financial, as a parent I'm grateful that it exists for my children to enjoy the sport.

 

[OzZee]

I find it sad how put down rec gymnastics is from those on the competitive side.
My eldest is in rec. It is a pastime for her. She thinks her sisters in competitive gymnastics are mad, but enjoys her class, slowly gains skills and a good exercise class (actually not that slowly though her form could be better and oddly enough she loves conditioning with the level girls). She has been invited to do competitive but it's not her thing.
But I find every time rec gymnastics is brought up there is a bit of a well they must all want to do competitive/aren't good enough/not been discovered sort of feel. .
My youngest, whilst doing competitive WAG now will either drop it or more likely join a rec class this year as she has other interests, she still loves the sport but not as much as other things, and a sport that entails so many hours and complete commitment really isn't right for a lot of people.
Maybe if rec was seen as a positive sport, had good progressions (we are very lucky in our gym) then the sport as a whole could benefit from higher numbers of children staying in it.
Same has here in Australia, a few comments I've had recently and recent threads on here about IDP (international stream) vs NDP (national stream) and why do ndp if you can't do IDP get to international standard, I just don't get it. We are a family that turned down IDP, why, it doesn't suit us/the child in question, but give up because you can't have a dream of the olympics??!! Seriously next to no one makes it there, I just don't get it. It's about the journey, learning cool skills, getting fit and having fun.
My kids all have filled in their aims for next year, they are all attainable skills. That's what they are working towards, not some probably unattainable competition goal 5-15 years away.

That's sad if some gyms only see rec kids as cash and not how they can progress those kids.

 

[xrachx]

That's sad if some gyms only see rec kids as cash and not how they can progress those kids.

There's definitely nothing wrong with being rec, as long as your child is happy. But if they are bored, unchallenged yet have the determination to achieve more, then the club should nurture their passion and do what they can to progress them to whatever level they can achieve.

DDs former gym only focuses on their A teams, and they're losing girls from their B teams due to this favouritism. I know of 20+ kids who have left rec/advanced in the last few weeks, some quitting, some moving elsewhere, all saying the same thing "maybe I'm just not good enough to go further than this", which I find really sad

 

[Faith]

In the club we were at rec didn't really go anywhere, which I found sad. Hundreds of kids pitching up week after week, working hard, but not really getting anywhere. From what I saw only the really little ones did bars and beam, once they got to 8 it was pretty much F&V. If they stuck at it long enough, they maybe got to BHS and handspring vaults by 12/13. No competitions, no reward system, nothing.

I think rec is about volume, and at an hour a week you can't really reach them much. What I also felt sad about is some of these kids were talented, and/or really wanted to be good, but were never offered the chance to progress. Same with some of the B team- they wanted a go at elite, but weren't allowed.

As somebody said earlier, it's often down to communication. Find out what the kid wants, what the parents think/ can support, then factor in your coaches opinion. Too many coaches think they can talent identify in 5/6/7 year olds, when it's not all about the physical abilities.

If a kid really wanted to try a level, and had the basic ability, I'd let them give it a go. Gymnastics is a sport where it's 99% mental, the desire to try is an underrated quality :lol: If they haven't got the talent to match, they'll soon find out.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

I think you guys have different experiences from us as you have elites - as we have no hope of going elite we have less of a divide and progression is always there from rec if they want it