Coaches Scoring rant

[twisting007bigflip]

Seriously, why judge if you aren't going to take the deductions? It is mathematically impossible for a kid to score a 34.5 + on compulsory level 6 when they can't hit the split requirements, bent legs and arms on the back handspring step out, a hop after the punch front, a wild front tumble pass, a stumble after the leap, bent arms on the back extension roll, and a back tuck that barely made it around. A 7 year old shouldn't get "cute points"....bent arms on kip, a free hip that didn't come out at horizontal, fall on squat on, bent arms on long hang kip, didn't meet cast requirements, got stuck on the baby giant, didn't meet the swing angles...then the beam routine wasn't anything special and the vault was non-existent. How did this kid possibly score out of compulsories? I don't get it at all.

I'm sure this post makes me sound horrible. i really don't mean to come across as mean or that i'm discounting the talent of the kid, or her hard work, but...As a judge, why would you over score like that? As a coach, why would you want your athlete over scored like that? As a parent, why would you want your child reinforced that she is doing something well when she isn't?

I just really don't understand.

 

[GymSurvivor]

I'm assuming you're talking about a little one on YouTube whose video just went up.
I can say that the whole time watching it I was thinking, 'and why is she scoring out??' To me it looked like she definitely is not ready for a higher level!!
The judging was very loose to say the least!

 

[twisting007bigflip]

I really sort of feel bad for ranting about this, but I really feel like the child is getting the crap end of the deal. I know it isn't any of my business, but she'll get stomped in optionals if a real judge scores her. Plus, at 7 years old, why not stay in compulsories and work on form? This is a talented kid who could be very good with the proper training. It's a shame she and (obviously) her parents are being misled. Right now she's literally just chucking skills. I cringe thinking of this kid's optional scores. Who knows. Maybe they'll prove me wrong.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

could you post the link?

 

[twisting007bigflip]

I would feel like the biggest jerk ever if I posted it publicly...check your messages.

 

[Amber]

After reading the post, I took a look at the video. While this little girl obviously worked hard learning new routines, she is lacking in both form and strength to move to optionals. Since her parents posted other videos using her full name (unwise in these days), I checked some of her previous meet scores. She scored in the bottom of the pack at level 5 just this past spring. In our gym, she would be repeating level5 with those scores!
This rush to move her up so quickly is going to hurt her in the long run (possibly physically), which is sad, since she does have talent .

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Maybe coaches will take the season off and not compete her...and just do some serious basics training and some up training. After I watched it for the second time, the coaches obviously "invited" a judge to come in and run a "meet" in house to score just a few kids out. There were classes going on in the back ground!

 

[txgymfan]

Please PM me the link too. I'd like to see this.

 

[gymdog]

Well, the "new level 6" where this kid is competing is significantly easier than new level 5 and old level 6, which doesn't really make sense, but there it is. Especially on bars. Basically you can do whatever you want in new level 6 as long as you have an okay kip and a little more than basic level 3/4 skills. I have no doubt the kid could do this level. Why, is another question. It's not really the path I'd take, but I guess if the kid is enjoying herself, okay. I didn't see anything especially unsafe in the video.

So maybe they are going to clean up form and basics there. Entirely plausible, might be a fine path, but a lot of gyms aren't using the new level 6 so it does seem a little offbeat.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Well, the "new level 6" where this kid is competing is significantly easier than new level 5 and old level 6, which doesn't really make sense, but there it is. Especially on bars. Basically you can do whatever you want in new level 6 as long as you have an okay kip and a little more than basic level 3/4 skills. I have no doubt the kid could do this level. Why, is another question. It's not really the path I'd take, but I guess if the kid is enjoying herself, okay. I didn't see anything especially unsafe in the video.

So maybe they are going to clean up form and basics there. Entirely plausible, might be a fine path, but a lot of gyms aren't using the new level 6 so it does seem a little offbeat.

Agreed, but what about the cast requirements for optionals? I could be wrong, but my understanding is that anything less than vertical receives a deduction. I know that the special requirement for new 6 is above horizontal, but when you read optional rules in the code, it says vertical.

I would just be interested in knowing how a completely different judge would score this kid.

Does anyone know why in the world the AA to score out is only a 31? To me, a 31 isn't really competent. I honestly don't even compete kids who can't score AT LEAST a 34 - and I don't mean a 34 based on whoever judged that "meet". I mean a legit 34. The kid needs to be proficient or they aren't competing.

 

[GymSurvivor]

Well I'm not sure i could get a 34 at the new level 5, on beam I can't do back walkovers because of my back and Bach handsprings are a fear issue, so for level 6 I'm competing a round-off.
On bars, I have a fear of flyaway, so for now ill compete underswing dismount, hopefully mid season put a flyaway in. I struggle on bars in general so my coach can do a routine tailored to my strengths.
Floor, I can never land my front tuck but I have a good front handspring front tuck that I can land.
So you get the point, basically level 6 will be much better for me. I'm not sure what kind of score I'd get at level 5 (I compete non-sanctioned meets so I don't need to score out according to my coach.)

Also, I'm 19 years old and just compete for fun! I've always dreamed of doing optional routines so this will be perfect. This will also most likely be my last year competing so my coach isn't to concerned and 'progressing skills' if you know what I mean.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Yes, I get it and yes, all athletes are different and optional routines can be tailored, but...

You're competing in a non sanctioned league. It's a little bit different when it's sanctioned. You don't have to achieve a certain all around score to do the new 6...the rules are supposed to be different for sanctioned competition.

 

[Gymsanity]

I would feel like the biggest jerk ever if I posted it publicly...check your messages.

Why? Apparently it already is posted publicly, just some of us here don't know where, so makes it rather difficult to join in on the conversation.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Why? Apparently it already is posted publicly, just some of us here don't know where, so makes it rather difficult to join in on the conversation.

I'll pm you the link, and if you want you could post it here...I'm just not sure that the mother doesn't post here and I don't want to offend anyone. The little girl is reasonably talented and could probably have a long time in the sport and would so well if she were being properly trained.

 

[Gymsanity]

Thank you for the link twisting, and no I don't see a problem posting it, as it is already public. However, I respect your opinion and decision, so I won't.However, it looks like I'm going to have to be the 'fly in the ointment' here. Two issues here, if they took every deduction in the book for those routines as they did 16 years ago (for those that remember), she would get what they got back then 2.0-3.0 per event. That didn't go over so swell with the peeps, did it?! So, all I ask from the judges now is that they PLACE the kids properly. I don't care if the winning score is a 6.0, as long as that is what the best kid got, I'm a happy coach. I just hate it when it comes down to drawing straws to see who wins! The second issue is that there are many (I think??) coaches out there that feel the greatest hindrance to elite gymnastics is compulsories. How many years are wasted on those routines trying to get them perfect just so you can get a 10.0 to show the gym down the street and parents just how much better you are?? Answer? Too long! Obviously the compulsories are a necessary evil, and even a good thing for many, but they can be a detriment to kids headed to the top levels. Think of the years that could be spent on learning higher level skills. (yes, I hear the ones saying that's what the compulsories do, but let's be real). A colleague of mine take kids like that and 'blows' them through the JO program ASAP to get them into the upper/elite levels before it's too late. He has had several athletes on the National team, so I'm willing to believe he knows a bit about what he is doing. Point being, the girl looks like she has talent, and we don't know what her coaches plans for her are, so I wish them both good luck.

 

[Jasmynn]

Could you pm me the link also. I know a few coaches that don't care how their gymnasts score in compulsories, they only care about getting them to optionals, although I will never understand that reasoning.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Thanks, Gymsanity - I knew a fly would buzz into the ointment at some point

I agree with everything you said, but I'm guessing your National Team Coach friend wouldn't have tried to score this little one out yet. There is NO WAY that if that kid had competed in a meet such as, say, Chicago Style, that her scores would have met a 31 to score out. She claims a 34.5 AA but is actually somewhere in the range of a 26! Not proficient enough to score out.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and 26 is generous. and remember, the Elites have compulsories also. no qualifying score=no optional program.

 

[GymSurvivor]

I didn't say I couldn't score out of level 6, I believe I could pull it off to score at least a 31. But what I was saying is that I don't know if I could score a 34 which is what you were stating that you'd require.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

I didn't say I couldn't score out of level 6, I believe I could pull it off to score at least a 31. But what I was saying is that I don't know if I could score a 34 which is what you were stating that you'd require.

I knew what you meant

What I was saying (or meant to say if I didn't) was that when competing non sanctioned, there is typically no score out rule. Like, you can compete any level you want...

Our gym competes non sanctioned leagues too. As an example, a coach friend of mine who lives in a different town than me competes usag and in the same non sanctioned league as us. She has a very talented 8 year old who competed usag level 4 (old) but competes level 7 in the non sanctioned meets.