WAG Some technical questions for an upcoming novel about gymnastics - please help!

[Eloise_the_author]

Hi all,

I'm a children's writer, currently working on a gymnastics novel for 9-13 year olds for the UK market.
Seeing as there isn't really an equivalent to ChalkBucket in the UK, I was wondering if anyone here could answer some technical questions for me?

1. Would doing a tuck with one and a half twist on the bars be achievable for a 13-year-old national-level gymnast? She's an Olympic hopeful, so pretty talented.

2. Do gymnasts still refer to kips? My gymnast friend didn't think so, and thought I might be referring to an 'upstart'. Is this more an American term than British though?

3. Do you talk about the balance beam or the beam? Does balance beam sound very old-fashioned?

4. When you raise your arms to the judges before performing, do you call this 'saluting' or 'presenting'? Again, maybe it's different in the US and UK, but would be great to get a term that both sides of the Atlantic recognise.

Thanks so much everyone for your help, hope my questions aren't too silly! Much appreciated.

And if you're interested, this is an sneak peek of what my book might look like . . .

 

[josie55]

Fun! Here's what I think (I'm a parent, not a gymnast):
1. Assuming you mean a dismount, then yes, but I don't know how common that dismount is? A double tuck with a full twist ("full in" or "full out") would be more realistic, I think.
2. Mine says kip and not upstart (US)
3. Beam
4. Saluting

 

[Eloise_the_author]

Brilliant, thanks Josie, much appreciated.

 

[Gymnast2009]

Brilliant, thanks Josie, much appreciated.

For the last one, my coaches say saluting is when you raise your arms up at the judge and presenting is when finish each skill with your arms up and pressed back with pretty fingers. And when will this be out because my thirteen year old self is dying to read it!

 

[Gymnast2009]

And more gymnast like terms, are bars not uneven bars, strap instead of strap bar, beam instead of balance beam, floor instead of floor exercise, vault, stick meaning landing and not moving your feet at all, clean meaning no wobbles or falls, rip meaning blisters that ripped open on your hands from bars, tiger paws are wrist supports, grips meaning the pieces of leather on your hands for bars, tape meaning athletic tape, pre wrap meaning the under wrap before the tape, tape it or tape up meaning wrapping a body part with tape and pre wrap, conditioning meaning workouts that are gymnastics based, Leo meaning leotard, etc.

 

[Gymnast2009]

Ok I just saw in your previous post that it’s coming out in 2024, if it is, I would consider the publish date to be September 16th, because it is national gymnastics day! Just a fun touch I think

 

[sun]

1. one and a half tuck is probably possible, but it's very strange.. tuck makes you flip fast, and twisting makes you flip fast - so you usually don't see people doing more than a full twist in the tuck position because of over-rotation. I've never seen someone talk about or attempt this, and it wouldn't be worth much.

pretty much all dismounts on bars are double tuck/pike/layout variations at high level.

2. in america, everybody knows the popular bars mount as a kip

3. balance beam is ok, but most would just call it "beam"

4. we call this presenting. I've heard saluting but less commonly.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Hi all,

I'm a children's writer, currently working on a gymnastics novel for 9-13 year olds for the UK market.
Seeing as there isn't really an equivalent to ChalkBucket in the UK, I was wondering if anyone here could answer some technical questions for me?

1. Would doing a tuck with one and a half twist on the bars be achievable for a 13-year-old national-level gymnast? She's an Olympic hopeful, so pretty talented.

2. Do gymnasts still refer to kips? My gymnast friend didn't think so, and thought I might be referring to an 'upstart'. Is this more an American term than British though?

3. Do you talk about the balance beam or the beam? Does balance beam sound very old-fashioned?

4. When you raise your arms to the judges before performing, do you call this 'saluting' or 'presenting'? Again, maybe it's different in the US and UK, but would be great to get a term that both sides of the Atlantic recognise.

Thanks so much everyone for your help, hope my questions aren't too silly! Much appreciated.

And if you're interested, this is an sneak peek of what my book might look like . . .

View attachment 8784

1) By tuck with one and a half twist, you mean like as a dismount? A single tucked flip with 1.5 twists?
That would be.... I guess doable, but very weird. Nobody would actually do that.
A double back or a full-out (that is, double back with a full twist in the second flip) would be far more realistic.

2) I think this one varies regionally. In the USA, everybody refers to it as a kip. However, I believe "upstart" is another term for the same skill that I've only ever heard from British people; not sure if that term is a British thing, or a European thing, or whether the term has faded out of use, or what. This would be a good one to ask about at a local gym.

3) Everybody just calls it beam. Also, a more subtly quirk to watch for: gymnasts don't use "the" when referring to an event. Ie, you're not working on your backhandspring on the beam, you're working your backhandspring on beam. You're not finishing up on the bars and then heading to the floor; you're finishing up on bars and heading to floor. You'd never say your favorite event is the vault; you'd just say it's vault.
Not using "the" when referring to an event is a minor little linguistic quirk that I think most gymnasts aren't even aware we're doing, but when somebody refers to "the beam" or "the bars" instantly cues us in that they're an outsider.

4) I've heard both

 

[GymnastPotterhead]

Gymnast here
1] I agree with everyone about the dismount

2) In the US, its kips, in British gymnastics and also in India, its upstart

3) Beam (all coaches, teammates, yt videos except those that are trying to teach smth about gymnastics)

4) Saluting


Also, is the book going to be illustrated? I'm super into graphic design and would love to collaborate if so!

 

[Eloise_the_author]

For the last one, my coaches say saluting is when you raise your arms up at the judge and presenting is when finish each skill with your arms up and pressed back with pretty fingers. And when will this be out because my thirteen year old self is dying to read it!

Ah thanks, Josie. It's out Jan 5 2024 with Chicken House Books in the UK. I don't know if it'll be available in the US yet, fingers crossed I can get a US publisher!!! Here's the link, though don't know if you'll be able to access it Stateside:
Amazon product ASIN 191502630X

 

[Eloise_the_author]

Gymnast here
1] I agree with everyone about the dismount

2) In the US, its kips, in British gymnastics and also in India, its upstart

3) Beam (all coaches, teammates, yt videos except those that are trying to teach smth about gymnastics)

4) Saluting


Also, is the book going to be illustrated? I'm super into graphic design and would love to collaborate if so!

OK, think I need to do a quick re-write of the dismount.

The book isn't going to be illustrated, just cover art at the mo. But thank you!!!

 

[Eloise_the_author]

1) By tuck with one and a half twist, you mean like as a dismount? A single tucked flip with 1.5 twists?
That would be.... I guess doable, but very weird. Nobody would actually do that.
A double back or a full-out (that is, double back with a full twist in the second flip) would be far more realistic.

2) I think this one varies regionally. In the USA, everybody refers to it as a kip. However, I believe "upstart" is another term for the same skill that I've only ever heard from British people; not sure if that term is a British thing, or a European thing, or whether the term has faded out of use, or what. This would be a good one to ask about at a local gym.

3) Everybody just calls it beam. Also, a more subtly quirk to watch for: gymnasts don't use "the" when referring to an event. Ie, you're not working on your backhandspring on the beam, you're working your backhandspring on beam. You're not finishing up on the bars and then heading to the floor; you're finishing up on bars and heading to floor. You'd never say your favorite event is the vault; you'd just say it's vault.
Not using "the" when referring to an event is a minor little linguistic quirk that I think most gymnasts aren't even aware we're doing, but when somebody refers to "the beam" or "the bars" instantly cues us in that they're an outsider.

4) I've heard both

OMG this is so useful. You can do gymnastics research forever without picking up on these things! Am now frenetically going through my manuscript checking for stray uses of 'the'.

On the dismount - if I swap it to a full-out, I'm assuming that's a hard skill, but not impossible for our highly talented 13 year old?
And just checking this is what you mean?


Thank you so much.

 

[Eloise_the_author]

And more gymnast like terms, are bars not uneven bars, strap instead of strap bar, beam instead of balance beam, floor instead of floor exercise, vault, stick meaning landing and not moving your feet at all, clean meaning no wobbles or falls, rip meaning blisters that ripped open on your hands from bars, tiger paws are wrist supports, grips meaning the pieces of leather on your hands for bars, tape meaning athletic tape, pre wrap meaning the under wrap before the tape, tape it or tape up meaning wrapping a body part with tape and pre wrap, conditioning meaning workouts that are gymnastics based, Leo meaning leotard, etc.

Ooh that's interesting. I have gone back and forth on how to talk about tape and hand grips, as I will hopefully have an audience who aren't all gymnasts, so I need to be inclusive of them, but also not seem like I'm getting it wrong. I had 'hand grips' then changed it to 'palm guards' - but is palm guards wrong?
When you say pre-wrap, is that zinc oxide tape (the white stuff) and then the athletic tape is a thicker version of the same?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

OMG this is so useful. You can do gymnastics research forever without picking up on these things! Am now frenetically going through my manuscript checking for stray uses of 'the'.

On the dismount - if I swap it to a full-out, I'm assuming that's a hard skill, but not impossible for our highly talented 13 year old?
And just checking this is what you mean?


Thank you so much.

Yes, that's a full-out. And it would be a reasonably-typical dismount for a high-level 13-year-old.

 

[GymnastPotterhead]

Ooh that's interesting. I have gone back and forth on how to talk about tape and hand grips, as I will hopefully have an audience who aren't all gymnasts, so I need to be inclusive of them, but also not seem like I'm getting it wrong. I had 'hand grips' then changed it to 'palm guards' - but is palm guards wrong?
When you say pre-wrap, is that zinc oxide tape (the white stuff) and then the athletic tape is a thicker version of the same?

We refer to them as grips, not hand grips or palm guards but I can see how just grips would be hard to understand for someone not in the gym world... I think hand grips is still better than palm guards though as palm guards are also used in calisthenics stuff but grips are specific to gymnastics (at least in the US)

Pre wrap is a thin, usually colored tape. Not sure if it has zinc oxide. But it looks like this:

 

[Eloise_the_author]

We refer to them as grips, not hand grips or palm guards but I can see how just grips would be hard to understand for someone not in the gym world... I think hand grips is still better than palm guards though as palm guards are also used in calisthenics stuff but grips are specific to gymnastics (at least in the US)

Pre wrap is a thin, usually colored tape. Not sure if it has zinc oxide. But it looks like this:

Ah got it, good to know.

 

[Eloise_the_author]

Also, one more crazy question.

I have a beam dismount that was invented by the coach in the story called The Cazacu. It's supposed to be super-hard, a
backwards full layout with double twist. That's not known widely as anything else is it? It's okay if it's not well known, but shouldn't be impossible. Does it work?

 

[GymnastPotterhead]

Pretty sure thats just called a double full but someone else can confirm

 

[Eloise_the_author]

Pretty sure thats just called a double full but someone else can confirm

Yikes. How about I swap it for a full twisting double pike? Currently that's known as a Patterson, but I could retitle it for the purposes of the book. Its a G rating, so pretty hard.

 

[GymnastPotterhead]

Yikes. How about I swap it for a full twisting double pike? Currently that's known as a Patterson, but I could retitle it for the purposes of the book. Its a G rating, so pretty hard.

I'd say you can still use the double full (difficulty wise).
Patterson is not the full twisting double pike - its a double arabian tucked off beam.
The full twisting double pike is definitely super hard, only very talented, powerful gymnasts do it. (Still, most do tucked)