Sorry for repeating this topic: implications of the proposed 2013 JO changes

[GymBee97]

someone posted this in another thread I liked it and kept it but can't remember who came up with it on this topic and I felt its worth repeating. so take the level numbers out and put in these words ;-) and yes if you are trying to do one level a year it will add a year to your plans.

Level 1: Newbies (old 2)
Level 2: Still Fun (old 3)
Level 3: Start of Crazy Parents (old 4)
Level 4: Kips! (old 5)
Level 5: Score Out Quick (old 6)
Level 6: I'm Finally an Optional (Old 7)
Level... 7: Flipping Vault! (old 8)
Level 8: Guinnea Pigs (brand new level)
Level 9: This is Hard (no changes)
Level 10: Top Gymnasts (no changes)

 

[wallflower]

Again, as a parent I am not having trouble with this. I understand that it is simply a different way of organizing the skills and progrssion to get to level 10. The when and what you call it is not really important because for almost everyone it takes a number of years to get there. It is my DD that pointed that with this change someone could be at level 5 for 3 years and isn't that a demotivator.

These kids are smart and think these things through. And sometimes they are emotional. Forget how to manage the parents. How do you manage the child who thinks you just added obstacles to her meeting her goals? It is not as simple as you make it sound. That's all.

I'm sure there are some kids that will struggle with it, but there are also many who will not have a problem. I know for my daughter she doesn't really care. She goes to the gym and learns and is just happy to be there. She really isn't concerned with what level she is or isn't. She likes to learn new skills, but she doesn't really care about the label of what level she is.

I have learned already in the short time she has been in this sport, that that number really doesn't matter. Sometimes a level 5 at one gym is a WAY different gymnast than a level 5 at another gym. One level 5 might have perfected the routines and have many skill for the next level, while the other can barely do the level 5 skills. It kind of fits in with the whole idea of repeating a level. If my kid repeats level 5, but is getting stronger, gaining skills etc for her future as a gymnast it doesn't really matter in the long run.

So I would just try to focus on the skills and not the number with her. If she does end up doing that 3rd year of level 5 she will be in the same boat as everyone else. You can point out and celebrate all the new skills she has gained.

 

[gymgal]

but many tend to lose sight that unless you are planning to go elite, the last level is 10 and if you get there you stay there (unless you plan to go elite), multiple years or repeating 10 over and over.

Which is very important for college gymnastics and which is what the OP was worried about - having enough time in L10 before college. And while the chance of a girl making it to the college level is very low, it still is a dream for these girls and its one that needs to be thought of early.

Obviously, the reality is that most girls won't stay in gymnastics long enough to get to the higher levels, but many parents want to do everything they can to ensure that he goal is achievable if the child chooses to go for it.

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[AmandaLynn]

Which is very important for college gymnastics and which is what the OP was worried about - having enough time in L10 before college. And while the chance of a girl making it to the college level is very low, it still is a dream for these girls and its one that needs to be thought of early.

Obviously, the reality is that most girls won't stay in gymnastics long enough to get to the higher levels, but many parents want to do everything they can to ensure that he goal is achievable if the child chooses to go for it.

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What is the difference if the gymnast repeats Level 5 this year and then moves to New 5/Old 6 next year or if she moves to L6, has a tough L6 season, doesn't get the necessary L7 (new L6) skills and ends up having move "Down" to new L5 (essentially repeating Old 6) anyway?

If the coach is not confident that the gymnast will be ready for L6 this year, then it's entirely possible (and some might even argue likely) that if the gymnast and/or her family push for her to be moved anyway and succeed in getting her moved, the gymnast will not be ready to move "up" again next season.

I suppose my arguement is that if the skills are not there, she's not going to get to L10 any faster. In addition, one might argue that if she's stuck on the number of her Level that much, it may actually do MORE damage to her motivation to potentially have to move "Down" from L6 to L5 when the system changes next year.

 

[gymgal]

As the parent of another child training pre-elite and Level 10 (oldest daughter) I can see why USAG is doing this. The leap between some of these levels was huge. I was surprised at the skill upgrades between level 8 and 9.

Which I guess is why I don't understand the proposed changes for the new L8. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like they have only added options to increase the level of difficulty but have not made them requirements. The new 6 and 7 are slightly easier than the current equivalents. Yes, they have added an extra year to learn / polish new skills but unless you are in a gym that uptrains 2+ levels, this isn't going to make any difference in terms of making 8 to 9 transition easier. For the gyms that only uptrain only 1 yr up or not at all (yes, there are lots out there), the girls can still go into 8 with the same skills as now and will still have just as big a jump to 9. (again, correct me if I am wrong about the options vs requirements for new 8) . Thankfully, dd's gym uptrains, especially the highly motivated girls, so we don't need to worry about this, but other gyms.....

 

[LizzieLac]

Which I guess is why I don't understand the proposed changes for the new L8. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like they have only added options to increase the level of difficulty but have not made them requirements. The new 6 and 7 are slightly easier than the current equivalents. Yes, they have added an extra year to learn / polish new skills but unless you are in a gym that uptrains 2+ levels, this isn't going to make any difference in terms of making 8 to 9 transition easier. For the gyms that only uptrain only 1 yr up or not at all (yes, there are lots out there), the girls can still go into 8 with the same skills as now and will still have just as big a jump to 9. (again, correct me if I am wrong about the options vs requirements for new 8) . Thankfully, dd's gym uptrains, especially the highly motivated girls, so we don't need to worry about this, but other gyms.....

Gymgal, everything you have said on this topic captures the challenges with the new system. Thanks or saying it so eloquently.

In your last post, you hit the nail on the head again! I can add by describing our gym. We do not split the competitive year. Compulsories do states in May (not December). 99% of the girls do one level in that year - they do not score out and move up. Even if they are scoring 36s or 37s. We uptrain skills primarily in the summer - during the competitive year we work routines and condition, for the most part. At the end of the summer, sometime in the fall before the first competition, girls are confirmed for their level. Some repeat, many move to the next level. It is at the coaches discretion - do the girls have the new skills "competition ready" and are they proficient in al 4 events.

In this scenario, girls already in the program, who are competent gymnasts but not the 1st AA at every meet, who might repeat a level once or twice, are going to get stuck in the mid-level of the program (levels 5 and 6, or whatever they will be called) even if they get "new" skills.

And adding a level in between 8 and 9 to make that transition easier might result in another year of progression that was not there before and also slow the attainment of reaching level 10. I understand that the smaller goals along the way are to add skills, but the big goal of level 10 (so gymmie can do college) just seemed to be moved farther away. I simply can't see it any other way and while I can tell my DD to just focus on working hard and getting new skills and not to pay attention to labels and levels, she is smart enough to do the math... How could she not, that is the nature of the sport.

 

[J&A's mom]

I haven't read every post because my computer is super slow. I read that the daughter is who is having problems with this and not the mom. I wonder if the problem has to do with her saying to her friends that she is a Level 4 gymnast....again. And the friends are like aren't you getting any better? Friends mean everything, even the ones that aren't in gymnastics.

 

[LizzieLac]

I haven't read every post because my computer is super slow. I read that the daughter is who is having problems with this and not the mom. I wonder if the problem has to do with her saying to her friends that she is a Level 4 gymnast....again. And the friends are like aren't you getting any better? Friends mean everything, even the ones that aren't in gymnastics.

Bingo! Even the ones on her team. Not everyone is super supportive of his/her teamates.

 

[Quadqueen]

I get the concern about her peers...teammates should understand. But that's where you reitterate that as long as she's learning new skills and is happy, the level # shouldn't matter. That's all you can do. Use it as a life lesson on not worrying so much about what your friends think.

 

[Deanna]

I totally understand where you are coming from..and where your daughter is coming from. My DD is 6 and competed her first year of L4 this past season. She is possibly repeating L4 again next winter season. (although she is plugging away real nicely on her L5 and L6 skills). If that is the case she will be a 3 year "L4" girl. (as the following year L5 will be called L4). She is aware of this change. She doesn't "want" to be a L4 AGAIN!!! (lol) but it sure has lit a fire under her you know what to get those skills and compete as an L5 this season.
You can ask anyone on here..I am the QUEEN of the "what ifs"..but I am learning, with the help of these wonderful people, to let it go. What will be will be. It is beyond my control..and will happen the way it will happen no matter how much I worry my pretty little head about it. And my DD only feeds off of me. So when she comes to me with concerns..I always show her the positve..and try to make the best of it.
She does NOT want to repeat L4 this coming season..because even at 6 yrs old (she will be 7 by then) she is fully aware that would make her an L4 for 3 yrs. She doesn't want that. But she has a new drive and motivation to do all she can to try and make sure that doesn't happen. But she also understands that if she does have to repeat again...she will not be the only one. It's not like she is being singled out..it's happening to a lot of them.
As far as it taking longer..maybe..maybe not. If they go one year in each..then yes, there is now an extra year. But so many take more than 1 year per level in the optional levels. Now, possibly they won't stall out between 8 and 9.
I may not get it or understand it..my DD may not like it..but it is what it is. And it's not changing.
I sure hope that your DD is okay with how it all plays out. And I hope that she gets the support of her team mates if she ends up being a 3 yr L5. Im sure she will not be the only one. Keep us posted on how it goes

 

[SGMOM]

With the way our gym operates, it will slow my daughter down. It seems that you have to place at the state meet to move to the next level, and there's no way to do that without spending a year at each level. Since we do not have an elite program, the girls start at level 2 and go to level 10. Even though my kid is by all accounts "talented", with our gym system this adds a year.

 

[GymBee97]

I think alot of gyms have some "extra" conditions that are not USAG rules but with the new Levels and trying to coordinate everything I think too alot of gyms are going to have a year or two where their "special gym only rules" will be on hold or changed. everyone will need an adjustment period.

With the way our gym operates, it will slow my daughter down. It seems that you have to place at the state meet to move to the next level, and there's no way to do that without spending a year at each level. Since we do not have an elite program, the girls start at level 2 and go to level 10. Even though my kid is by all accounts "talented", with our gym system this adds a year.

 

[Natasha]

I really think we are just going to wait and see what happens with the new system. For instance, if the new L6 (currently L7 but possibly a little easier) does end up being an "optional to compete" level, as in not having to score out, then the girls that have the skills and the talent can skip that level and would still have the same number of optional levels to go as there are now to get to L10. It would just be a matter of skipping the easier optional level. It could even result in some girls getting to L10 faster, as they can skip the easier optional level (if that is what USAG decides.) I am sure that gyms who have girls with the talent and desire for college scholarships will do what it takes to adjust to make sure that girls still have that opportunity as the gyms are just as motivated as the parents to make that happen. Even gyms who have strict move up policies in place for compulsories are able to be much more flexible at the optional level. Logistically it is much easier to do multiple levels in one year at optionals (provided the gymnast has the skill level) as you can keep the same routines and just switch out skills and combos.

 

[GymBee97]

My dd is going to be a L8 this year so when (or if) she moves up in 2013 she will be the new level 8 They are uptraining her to learn some of the L9 skills that can be done at L8 I think the gym is trying to get her to L9 for 2013 so she isn't effected by the level changes but we will see.

 

[gymgal]

My dd is going to be a L8 this year so when (or if) she moves up in 2013 she will be the new level 8 They are uptraining her to learn some of the L9 skills that can be done at L8 I think the gym is trying to get her to L9 for 2013 so she isn't effected by the level changes but we will see.

If she is competing in L8 in Jan 2013, and has the skills to "move up" I would think she would compete level 9 in Jan 2014, not 8 again. The "new L8" is not that much different from the old - 4 B's with just more options to add 1 C level skill to each routines. Of course, in order to compete well against the top gymnasts, I would think the routines would need that C skill.

 

[LizzieLac]

I really think we are just going to wait and see what happens with the new system. For instance, if the new L6 (currently L7 but possibly a little easier) does end up being an "optional to compete" level, as in not having to score out, then the girls that have the skills and the talent can skip that level and would still have the same number of optional levels to go as there are now to get to L10. It would just be a matter of skipping the easier optional level. It could even result in some girls getting to L10 faster, as they can skip the easier optional level (if that is what USAG decides.) I am sure that gyms who have girls with the talent and desire for college scholarships will do what it takes to adjust to make sure that girls still have that opportunity as the gyms are just as motivated as the parents to make that happen. Even gyms who have strict move up policies in place for compulsories are able to be much more flexible at the optional level. Logistically it is much easier to do multiple levels in one year at optionals (provided the gymnast has the skill level) as you can keep the same routines and just switch out skills and combos.

Well that sounds promising. I guess the gyms are going to have to give some thought on how to keep the kids moving through the new levels and not getting "stalled" at any one level. Our gym has not discussed how they plan on handling this, but I suspect it will get covered at our beginning of the season parents meeting in September. I would think they would have to address it this year so we know what to expect, but who knows.

I am going to just have to try to keep my DD focused on getting new skills and not on the name of the level. It is going to be hard. She just turned 12 and her brain is constantly on the go !

 

[Quadqueen]

Well that sounds promising. I guess the gyms are going to have to give some thought on how to keep the kids moving through the new levels and not getting "stalled" at any one level. Our gym has not discussed how they plan on handling this, but I suspect it will get covered at our beginning of the season parents meeting in September. I would think they would have to address it this year so we know what to expect, but who knows.

I am going to just have to try to keep my DD focused on getting new skills and not on the name of the level. It is going to be hard. She just turned 12 and her brain is constantly on the go !

No one is really going to get "stalled" - just keep that in mind! And while your DD is worried about doing the "same" level for 3 years, think of those kids that will be "repeating" at the time time of the change so the number of the level actually goes down (from 5 to 4 if they needed to "repeat" 5 for example). Really, there's no use getting worked up over this. Everyone's in the same boat. That's all you need to tell your DD

 

[wallflower]

I understand all the concerns being voiced here, but perhaps I just see it differently. I don't really think this will "slow" kids down. Level 10 remains the same correct? The end goal is the same. Bottom line is that if your gymnast has what it takes to make it to level 10, they will get there. If they have what it takes to get the skill set needed to get a college scholarship, they will get there no matter what the levels are called. It would be different if they increased the difficulty of level 10 and now what is level 9 is now the routines/skills you normally see in level 10.

Gyms that are aware of what it takes to get a college scholarship will get the kids that are able to reach that level to that place. They know what the level of skills required are. If that means skipping the new 8 or whatever is needed to do so, they will do it.

 

[Natasha]

I understand all the concerns being voiced here, but perhaps I just see it differently. I don't really think this will "slow" kids down. Level 10 remains the same correct? The end goal is the same. Bottom line is that if your gymnast has what it takes to make it to level 10, they will get there. If they have what it takes to get the skill set needed to get a college scholarship, they will get there no matter what the levels are called. It would be different if they increased the difficulty of level 10 and now what is level 9 is now the routines/skills you normally see in level 10.

Gyms that are aware of what it takes to get a college scholarship will get the kids that are able to reach that level to that place. They know what the level of skills required are. If that means skipping the new 8 or whatever is needed to do so, they will do it.

Well stated. I completely agree. L10 is still L10, the progressions to get to L10 skills are not changing.

 

[C's MOM]

I really think we are just going to wait and see what happens with the new system. For instance, if the new L6 (currently L7 but possibly a little easier) does end up being an "optional to compete" level, as in not having to score out, then the girls that have the skills and the talent can skip that level and would still have the same number of optional levels to go as there are now to get to L10. It would just be a matter of skipping the easier optional level. It could even result in some girls getting to L10 faster, as they can skip the easier optional level (if that is what USAG decides.) I am sure that gyms who have girls with the talent and desire for college scholarships will do what it takes to adjust to make sure that girls still have that opportunity as the gyms are just as motivated as the parents to make that happen. Even gyms who have strict move up policies in place for compulsories are able to be much more flexible at the optional level. Logistically it is much easier to do multiple levels in one year at optionals (provided the gymnast has the skill level) as you can keep the same routines and just switch out skills and combos.

The trying to figure out the levels thing is so darn confusing. What ever happened to trusting the coaches mentality and knowledge base? I have no idea what DD's coaches have in mind for her to date, but I can bank on the fact that they know she loves a challenge and that she pushes herself. Thus far, she has been successful and I believe it's due to her hard work and the coaches know-how. This (levels change) like all things shall pass and we all will be left saying, "Now that wasn't so bad."