to Compete, or to not Compete, That is The question.

[Brandon]

Hey there, this is my first, and I think this is where this topic would belong, but forgive me if it's not.

So I've been doing male artistic gymnastics for about 2 years now (I'm 13 years old), and now I have the option to compete. But here's the thing... well, things. Number one is that I'd have to leave my current gym where I'm comfortable, and my coach, who has been giving me free private lessons on his own time because he sees talent in me, and he has become basically a second father to me. Number two is a bit hard to say. Put simply, I'm horrified. I have what's called an anxiety disorder (no I'm not crazy or redarded...) which means there is a slight imbalence of saretonin( I'm sure I just murderd the spelling on that one!) in my brain. What does this mean? I get really scared, really easily. Nothing else, it's really that simple. And the thought of compeeting, honestly, scares the poo out of me. I think I might like it once I got used to it, but I dunno... Also, when I get nervous, I can sometimes have panic attacks. I would enter as a level 6, then move p to level 7 next year. Pretty much everyone thinks I should do it, and this is pretty much my only shot as well. I'm happy doing what I do for fun though, yet I don't want to have any regrets of not tleast trying. At the moment I got 4 days a week, 2 hours at a time. I'm doing level 7 skills for the most part. So yeah... what do you guys think I should do?

Basically that huge block of words above this is is me asking you if I should compete even though I have turbo-drived stage frieght. Also, I'm used to people watching, there's commonly 3-4 people just starring at me when I practice now, lol.

Thanks for any help,
Brandon

 

[dancesterx3]

It's a really tough choice to make. I was in that position myself as a child. I started competing at age 5, and went till I was 14. The thing with competing-especially at your first competition- is not to get cocky and think you've got it in the bag. Go in knowing that you're getting experience, getting to know other gymnasts who are your biggest contenders and to of course have fun. Once you get comfortable competing, then you wanna start stepping up your game and seeing what your competition is doing. I think if you go out there with the intention of using it as a learning experience you'll perform better than you think you will if you let fear set in. Can you do a competition before leaving your current gym? Talk to your current coach about your options and about your fears, be honest with him and tell him you want to try it but you don't want to leave where you are. But keep one thing in mind, it's a really hard thing to deal with the 'What if' fact. Also, just in general, try not to let fear keep you from doing something you wanna do. The worst that can happen is you'll find out competition isn't your thing and I bet your current coach will welcome you back with open arms. And maybe he'll keep giving you privates even if you do leave? Just talk to your coach. And Oh yeah, Welcome to the Chalk Bucket.

 

[gymex]

If you cannot manage to disassociate from the audience somehow and block them out then you may find yourself doing incredible things in practice and not be able to do much of anything in competitions.

Maybe you can get to the bottom of the anxiety. What is it that puts you in the panic zone? When you practice it may be beneficial to work on contingencies if you mess up. You should know exactly what you will do if you mess up at any point in your routine. Including what you will do if you simply freeze. You should have a plan and rehearse every possibility.

I have seen people that are a phenomenon on their own time but in front of a formal audience they can't do anything. Its possible that you will outgrow this problem on your own. When I work with gymnasts that are fearful I tell them that its fear factor time. This is when we pick stuff to work on that helps them overcome fear in general. For example, I might have them try back tucks which they don't have on the floor, on the beam with a late spot just to see if they will go for it and put their trust in me to catch them. I am a great spotter and I use stuff like this to work on fear factor. After a while, they get used to overcoming fear and learn to trust their training and experience without holding back when they know they are ready to do things on their own.

My primary advise if you can afford it is professional psychiatric counseling. A diagnosis and course of treatment may be the best answer.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

oh i dunno...no pun...just go out there and give it your best shot. kids without anxiety disorders go to their first few meets and puke, pee in their pants, and get diarreah. so what...it's part of the fun. i'm serious. i remember those feelings like it was yesterday.

 

[gymex]

Brandon may be suffering from clinical anxiety or any number of related phobic manias, dunno. Such as panic disorder, agoraphobia, obsessive compulsive disorder, social anxiety disorder, generalized social disorder, or post traumatic stress disorder,

Clinical anxiety can have medical causes. Telling someone to throw themselves out there as you have done dunno, when you do not know whether you are dealing with a medically ill or psychologically ill person, is ignorant at best and dangerous at worst.

People with anxiety disorders may not puke, pee in their pants, or get diarrhea. They may have any number of symptoms. Its like you said, people without this disorder puke, pee in their pants, and get diarrhea. Even more, you mentioned only 3 symptoms. There are more than 430 ways that clinical anxiety can manifest and become apparent. Whether someone pukes or pees, or gets diarrhea may or may not point to a clinical anxiety disorder. The way to be sure is to get evaluated by heath care professionals. One thing is for sure. If someone admits that they have unusual anxiety accompanied by important symptoms, then its not something that should be taken lightly and trivialized as if its no big deal.

Brandon has hinted at a possible condition that he suffers from. Apparently you do not have a knowledge of clinical anxiety. Apparently you know not what a clinical panic attack really is, dunno. This alone is reason for caution. Panic attacks raise a red flag. It signals a possible serious mental and or medical condition. Panic attacks can be dangerous. You certainly should not advise someone suffering from anxiety compounded by panic attacks to throw themselves out there.

In this regard I agree that your name is not a pun and when you call yourself by that name you mean it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

you know what? i can't even respond to your bluster. you have no idea what i might know. and to put all that crap there for him to read is the high definition of irresponsible. maybe YOU are in need of s.u.i.'s.

he's 13. be encouraging for crying out loud! and he's not being asked to swim across the ocean or fly a jetliner.

brandon, small steps young man. get out there and have fun.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

gymex

Banned


oh geez. is this chuckie once again?! why don't you go diaf for good. your sequel ended long ago.

 

[CoachGoofy]

Is it at all possible for you to start with small local things? MAG is way laid back compared to WAG.

If you feel your anxiety disorder is out of control, talk to your parents & your doctor about treatment, but there's no reason that would interfere with competing OR training.

Even if you decide that now isn't the time for you to start competing, the meets will still be there in a couple years. Some people find them stressful. Some people (even anxious people!) find them to be their element and thrive while competing. But it's not like you can't change your mind in a year.

Enjoy the sport wherever it takes you.

 

[Bobby]

Gymex made so many errors in so few sentences I think it's safe to conclude a complete absence of actual psyc credentials (except possibly some inpatient experience).
I honestly think gymnastics is a wonderful place for someone with an anxiety disorder to learn to take a small, manageable risk on dealing with some anxiety - facing and managing it. And will be great experience to build on before you hit college and the work force!!
There has never been a recorded case of a healthy teen dying (or suffering any other irreperable harm) from a panic attack!! The worst that can happen is you'll run to the loo a lot or puke on a judge. And I'm betting there'd be some applause for the latter. And if the worst happens so what?!
I say go for the comp. But go talk to your current coach first to see if it's something he can facilitate. He must be investing effort into you for a reason - maybe he has comp plans in mind he hasn't told you about yet??

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

I say, go for it! Competing is a unique experience that I think is very helpful for developing consistency, performance skills, anxiety management, and also giving you a goal to reach. I have an anxiety disorder as well and I've been working for the past two years on not getting freaked out about meets. I actually don't have stage fright, so that's a bit easier than it could be - I have performance fears. So most of the anxiety happens before the meet and not during. I've never had an attack during a meet, but the two days before a meet are always tough to manage my emotions. My mother and I actually set goals for me like "I won't get scared until the morning of the meet this time" (to ward off the week-long unresponsive psycho-daughter I have become in the past) and "I will remain calm on beam today, even if I fall". It's a working process - just keeping my anxiety in check and monitoring it are a big part of the work at a meet for me. But hopefully soon I'll be able to get out there and perform with no "what if" hanging over me.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Yes, gymex was stretch.

 

[coachmolly]

I have no problem with Gymex being banned, but I think he did make some decent points, at least in his post in this thread. While perhaps a bit pessimistic in his approach, some of the points made are valid. Namely that "stage fright" and "nerves" are very different (for the most part) than a diagnosable anxiety disorder and, logically, should be treated appropriately. Telling a person with an anxiety problem to "just deal with it" is never appropriate and, unfortunately, the position that many people seem to take on the issue. Perhaps it has just been my own experiences, but it seems a great deal of coaches, teachers, and similar professional figures are of the "just deal with it" belief system which is never okay.
But back to the original poster, the choice is yours and I don't think it would hurt to try. I would suggest if you do decide to go for it that you start out small, maybe with a small in-gym meet only among teammates and coaches and take it from there. You might find that you are a totally different, more confident person out on the competition floor. If this is the case, you've got nothing to worry about. But just take things slowly, there is no rush. You sound like a great gymnast and with what little information I have on your particular situation, I believe that you can go out, compete, and do a great job. You might not be able to do it as quickly as some people, but I really believe that it can be done for you, and others in similar situations, with the correct approach.
If you are seeing a psychologist for your anxiety problems I would suggest talking with him/her about any issues that could potentially arise at meets and he/she will probably have some great advice on how to deal with those issues based on your particular situation.
Anxiety disorders undoubtedly make gymnastics harder, but definitely not impossible. You sound like you have a lot of talent and drive and with the right support system and game plan in place, success in competitive gymnastics is certainly within reach . Best wishes!

 

[Bobby]

I have no problem with Gymex being banned, but I think he did make some decent points ... Namely that "stage fright" and "nerves" are very different (for the most part) than a diagnosable anxiety disorder and, logically, should be treated appropriately. Telling a person with an anxiety problem to "just deal with it" is never appropriate and ...never okay.
If you are seeing a psychologist for your anxiety problems I would suggest talking with him/her about any issues that could potentially arise at meets and he/she will probably have some great advice on how to deal with those issues based on your particular situation....

The primary diagnostic difference between anxiety/nerves and clinical anxiety is whether it is relative to the situation and whether it interferes with everyday life. Gym meets are not inevitable parts of everyday life and nerves at gym comps are 'normal' for everyone regardless of whether they have clinically significant anxiety outside of the competition scenario or not. Many sufferers of clinical anxiety find that competitive/similar experiences are great equalisers - where other people often get a window on how they feel on a regular basis.
Coercing someone to face a fear is likely to produce increased fear. But there is plenty of clinical evidence suggesting that voluntary participation in public speaking and other types of public performance actually reduces social anxiety in other contexts, which is why such things are frequently recommended by psychologists. No one here is pressurring the young man against his instinct - we're just encouraging him to have a crack on a voluntary basis - at something he's already stated high motivation to do. Providing he has the same option as everyone else on the floor to withdraw if/when appropriate, and is given the same advice about how to do so mid-apparatus (present and exit same as if pulled a muscle) - then his participation is extremely unlikely to escalate his symptoms, but is highly likely to improve them.
What is NOT recommended (as suggested by gymex) is rehearsing bad outcomes and attempting to make plans for every conceivable one.
Certainly consult with your primary therapist. I'm betting they'll recommend you take supporters (mums and dads are pretty standard accessories at gym meets anyway). I personally would suggest committing to 3 meets (if that many are available in a season), and calling the first an achievement if you present to begin for at least a couple of apparatuses, the second a success if you complete a couple of apparatuses, and the third a huge victory if you complete them all. And if you do better at the first then you deserve to be medalling by the 3rd.
But that's just intended as a general (reasonably educated ) comment - not advice.

 

[Bobby]

I'm a bit bothered that this post has fans.

Brandon may be suffering from clinical anxiety or any number of related phobic manias, dunno. Such as panic disorder, agoraphobia, obsessive compulsive disorder, social anxiety disorder, generalized social disorder, or post traumatic stress disorder...

It's pretty apparent that he has had a diagnosis of some sort, given he has a vague understanding of the brain chemistry involved (although cortisol is typically more instrumental than seratonin in anxiety).
So? Lot's of people manage such conditions. Let's not dramatise them unnecessarily.

... There are more than 430 ways that clinical anxiety can manifest and become apparent....

What rubbish.
Not that it would mean anything if it were true.

... Panic attacks can be dangerous...

They feel dangerous. First timers often think they're having a heart attack and about to die. I wouldn't wish one on you, but better a panic attack than something genuinely dangerous that really could harm more than your emotional well-being in that brief minute. I am sympathetic to the suffering they cause, but I object to dramatising the condition because exaggerated drama causes stigma.

... Apparently you do not have a knowledge of clinical anxiety...

Apparently neither do you.

 

[CoachGoofy]

It's pretty apparent that he has had a diagnosis of some sort, given he has a vague understanding of the brain chemistry involved (although cortisol is typically more instrumental than seratonin in anxiety).
So? Lot's of people manage such conditions. Let's not dramatise them unnecessarily.

Actually, cortisol has almost nada to do with anxiety. People who don't make cortisol (as in Addison's Disease, primary/secondary/tertiary adrenal insufficiency, Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia), like, at all, can still have extremely high anxiety. The interplay of all the chemicals is extremely complex, but it's definately NOT cortisol, which maintains physical homeostasis (aka keeps you from dying when you puke. Really.)

I don't disagree with the majority of what you're saying-particularly that as much as they bite, panic attacks can't kill you-but I'd hate for someone to be all "I'm anxious, let's decrease cortisol with dubious means" and get sick AND still be anxious.

 

[All Chalked Up]

I'd say try it. The first time I competed the crap was scred out of me, but guess what? I did BETTER than usual because I just fueled my fright into my routines, and I ended up getting 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and first all-around. You can always take breaks from competition, or train like competitve athlete but not compete. Go for it!

 

[lilgymmie7]

Anxiety

My son was diagnosed with anxiexty- general anxiety, social anxiety, separation anxiety- when he as 7. He is now 12 years old. Although he doesn't do gymnastics, he is a highly competive wrestler. He went to a national wrestling tournament yesterday. We were told by his psychiatrist that wrestling is a great sport for children with anxiety. He worries a lot about many things, but get him on the mat and his worries are minimized. He goes out there to win. However win or lose, we encourage him no matter what. The thing is, we let him cool down first after a loss. We have told him he has to rationalize for himself what happened when he loses. We can't do that for him, nor does he really want us to. Wrestling and gymnastics are very mental sports, as anxiety is obviously very mental. Sports, competition in a way prepares a child for world aspects. Competition shouldn't worry you. Talk to your psychiatrist and therapist. I am assuming you have both. I am assuming they have given you excersises to do when you feel a panic attack coming on. The more you are able to control your anxiety now as a child, the better you will fare as an adult with anxiety. That's what they are there for. Don't let competition stress you, let it be there as a learning experience. I am telling you this as a concerned parent with a child battling anxiety. The world is your learning ground; make of it what you desire. Perhaps your coach can give you experience simulated as a competition to ease you into competition for yourself. My son started wrestling when he was five. This is the one thing he prides himself on. He owns it for himself. Let gymnastics be your thing! Have fun with it! I hope I have helped. Try not to let the little things worry you. Talk to your parents.

 

[coachmolly]

First and most importantly, I would like to say that I did not agree with everything gymex wrote about in his post. The main point that I was agreeing with, and thanking him for, is that meet nerves and clinical anxiety are two very different things and it is inappropriate, yet very prevalent in society, to tell someone with anxiety to "just face your fear" or some other terribly uneducated and potentially very hurtful remark. If all someone with a diagnosable anxiety disorder would need to do was buck up and face their fear and be magically cured, anxiety would probably not be such a problem. Hearing anyone say something along the lines of "just get over it" is something I simply cannot tolerate and is an area where many people, especially those in professions that involve working with people, need to be more aware of.

Coercing someone to face a fear is likely to produce increased fear. But there is plenty of clinical evidence suggesting that voluntary participation in public speaking and other types of public performance actually reduces social anxiety in other contexts, which is why such things are frequently recommended by psychologists.

And "by psychologists" is the key point here. These things, while prescribed by psychologists, are worked up to gradually using a hierarchy system. Flooding, or sudden exposure to a very feared object or situation, also has great potential to backfire and should only be done under the guidance of a licensed professional.

What is NOT recommended (as suggested by gymex) is rehearsing bad outcomes and attempting to make plans for every conceivable one.

This type of visualization is actually used in therapeutic settings as a means to overcome certain fears. Not necessarily the plan making, but rehearsing the worst possible outcome and how one would adapt/adjust to the situation.

Anyway, this is not the place to debate such topics, if you want to get into it more, just send me a PM.
The take home message I want to leave with Brandon is that, yes, an anxiety disorder can make competitive sports more difficult in some situations, but certainly not impossible. In fact, it can be a great release from daily stressors and provide you with an opportunity to really feel like you belong. I have no doubt in my mind that you can do this, as I stated in my previous post, but don't push yourself too fast in an attempt to please others. Do what makes you happy! Make sure you find a supportive coach (you mentioned switching gyms) who you feel comfortable discussing any anxieties with, that will only help in your transition to competitive gymnastics if that is what you choose.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

This has gone as far as it needs to.

We cannot diagnose anxiety issues over the internet -- those can only be diagnosed by a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist who has met with you in person.

Locked