WAG Typical Start of Season Scores?

[my4buffaloes]

At some point in lower optionals and up I noticed that moving up a level suddenly became NOT about how well they did at a previous level, but did they have what they needed for the next level instead. Someone can totally rock level 7 and be nowhere near having the skills needed for level 8 - and it gets harder going to 9 and to 10.

Plus, you don't know who was out for a year due to injury and coming back, you don't know who really struggled last year and needs to repeat for a confidence boost, you don't know who is going through something really tough outside of gymnastics and needs to not be pushed on bigger, harder skills therefore is repeating or not moving up as fast as another parent thinks they should.

Each gymnast is an individual and I would like to think that the coaches and parents will make the best decision for each child. No reason for anyone else to second quess or make assumptions based on the snapshot they see at a meet.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

No. If you live in an area like ours where Level 5 states is In December and Optional season starts right after it- that’s just the way it goes. You have to be ready for 7 immediately after 5 or sit back and wait an entire year to compete again which is a waste of time.

So you can’t win then.

You don’t like them doing 5 twice in areas where compulsory is in the fall and Optionals in the spring, but others complain when they go straight from 5 to 7 within months.

It’s got to be one or the other or they don’t get any competition experience for over 12 months and that’s too long.

I know this is going off topic, but I have to chime in. I live in the same area as you and I know that you are at an amazing gym with great coaches. In fact I saw your gyms level 5's just yesterday at a meet and they looked great! I've heard that they train some pretty high hours too. Anyway, definitely not everyone in our state that competes level 5 in the fall goes right to 7. A lot of gyms seem to go from 4 to 6 (training 6 for an entire year before competing). One very good gym does 6 immediately after 5 and then goes to 7 next year. Dd's gym (and several others that I am aware of) do actually wait for an entire year before competing 7. I'm not sure saying it's too long and a waste of time is entirely fair. It's a different gym philosophy than your gym, but it isn't unheard of.

One last time and I’ll chill.

37s at the start of a season mean they are kicking *** in THAT level. That’s it.

37s in no way whatsoever provide any clue as to what skills they have for the next level. The only way you can judge that is to go watch them practice... Then and only then can you make these sort of claims.

I completely disagree with this. My child has scored 37-38 without having ANY skills for the next level. We have never been at a gym that trained above level. If a gymnast has good form and technique they can score well as soon as the skills come.

Because of this. My dd is doing great at 5. It's been her best level so far and she is actually getting a lot of first places and personal bests. But they have not learned all of their level 7 skills and they are not ready for 7. Yes, this was a conscious decison by their coaches to train for 5 and do well at it and then spend a year getting ready for 7 and, hopefully, doing great there too. They have done some uptraining and could possibly be ready for 7 in a couple of months, but they decided not to do that for whatever reason.

 

[gymgal]

You have to be ready for 7 immediately after 5 or sit back and wait an entire year to compete again which is a waste of time.

So you can’t win then.
You don’t like them doing 5 twice in areas where compulsory is in the fall and Optionals in the spring, but others complain when they go straight from 5 to 7 within months.

It’s got to be one or the other or they don’t get any competition experience for over 12 months and that’s too long.

THIS is what I don't get... so you have to wait 12 months. In a regular complulsory season you are already waiting 9 months. What is three more months and if the coach is so worried about it, they can register for a Dec meet and make it 11 mths.

Frankly, it is all academic to me. I really don't care. I just like debating the topic. Like I said in an earlier reply - it is just difference in coaching philosophies.

 

[John]

I guess my hang up is my DD has dreams, yes she is 10 and still beleives she could be an Olympian.

I asked her coach, when moving to usag, if she could train for a year not not Compete. Hoping she could learn new skills and perfecting all skills. I beleive fear sets in and slows progress. His response no. So i went with his expertise.

My point is it seems like being level ten adding skills at that level will help her fulfill her dreams as they change over time. But I have no expertise and only a father.

 

[gymbeam]

THIS is what I don't get... so you have to wait 12 months. In a regular complulsory season you are already waiting 9 months. What is three more months and if the coach is so worried about it, they can register for a Dec meet and make it 11 mths.

Frankly, it is all academic to me. I really don't care. I just like debating the topic. Like I said in an earlier reply - it is just difference in coaching philosophies.

Well, technically, since our compulsory state meet is next weekend and Optional meets aren’t until the first or second week in January it is a full 14 months they would wait. That’s a lot.

I believe coaches deserve December off from meets and travel since they have to do it for both compulsory season and optional.

 

[wallflower]

I've been at a gym that did the compulsory straight to optional a month later path. Those that couldn't make the jump were forced to compete that compulsory level again the next fall. Parents hated it because of the cost and the time lost working on routines. I was really glad my daughter escaped having to do that. The gym didn't do it to win. The kids who couldn't make the jump generally weren't really strong on 4 events and certainly weren't winning everything. At our gym at least there wasn't a group for kids who had finished 5 and were spending a year training for 7. Either you made the jump to the optional group or you stayed in the 5 group. If you were in the 5 group you did 5. They did not let kids train in the 5 group and not compete. The gym didn't have to run things this way, but it's how they chose to run things.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I completely disagree with this. My child has scored 37-38 without having ANY skills for the next level. We have never been at a gym that trained above level. If a gymnast has good form and technique they can score well as soon as the skills come.

At what level?

 

[duyetanh]

I have found from what i have seen that girls who are held back in lvls 7,8, and 9 are because they are either missing something, dealing with injury, or are older and just want to finish out the sport in highschool.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

At some point in lower optionals and up I noticed that moving up a level suddenly became NOT about how well they did at a previous level, but did they have what they needed for the next level instead. Someone can totally rock level 7 and be nowhere near having the skills needed for level 8 - and it gets harder going to 9 and to 10.

I don't have a gymmie yet at 8, 9 or 10. But our gym has had gymmies that high. So I do watch scores.

8 and especially 9 and 10 are their own beasts. I don't think anyone who has experienced "sandbagging" has experienced it at those levels.

I think folks are talking L7 but really more like L6 and lower.

And I would tease it out even more. There are very basic skills at L2, L3 and L4 that you just can't move on from. Really its the 5,6,7 level where you see the over lap and the L4s where gyms are holding whole teams to 2 yrs of 4 type thing.......

Totally my opinion. You compete L5 at states with 37/38s and higher and then within less then a month compete L7 with 36/37s. You only did L5 states for the medals.

The kids should of moved on from L5 after they scored out. Because after all everyone who has kids going to optionals realize its not about the medals. The goal for those gyms are to get them optionals. So no need to do states. States is not a requirement to move on.

And next we are not talking about a few kids. When those of us who speak of sandbagging. When the whole team is doing L5 at 37/38 and then the same whole team goes to L7 and gets 37/38, its very clear they had those L7 skills for long before that first meet.

Our L7 kids scoring from 34ish to 37ish early season start.

 

[wallflower]

At what level?

Every level she has ever competed. Perhaps I could say the year she did 9 she had skills she also used in 10, but that's to be expected.

But she has always scored well, as have many of her teammates and they had no skills for the next level. In fact in level 8 she didn't even have a flipping vault and was still scoring high 37's . So she definitely was not ready for 9. Many gyms would have made her compete level 7 again.

So yes, I think it's a false assumption that a gymnast scoring well is ready for the next level and clearly competing down a level. Maybe it's more that the standards of that gym are high on form and technique so they would never be in that level in the first place if not adequately prepared.

 

[wallflower]

I don't have a gymmie yet at 8, 9 or 10. But our gym has had gymmies that high. So I do watch scores.

8 and especially 9 and 10 are their own beasts. I don't think anyone who has experienced "sandbagging" has experienced it at those levels.

I think folks are talking L7 but really more like L6 and lower.

And I would tease it out even more. There are very basic skills at L2, L3 and L4 that you just can't move on from. Really its the 5,6,7 level where you see the over lap and the L4s where gyms are holding whole teams to 2 yrs of 4 type thing.......

Totally my opinion. You compete L5 at states with 37/38s and higher and then within less then a month compete L7 with 36/37s. You only did L5 states for the medals.

The kids should of moved on from L5 after they scored out. Because after all everyone who has kids going to optionals realize its not about the medals. The goal for those gyms are to get them optionals. So no need to do states. States is not a requirement to move on.

And next we are not talking about a few kids. When those of us who speak of sandbagging. When the whole team is doing L5 at 37/38 and then the same whole team goes to L7 and gets 37/38, its very clear they had those L7 skills for long before that first meet.

Our L7 kids scoring from 34ish to 37ish early season start.

I'm sorry, but that is not always the case. My kid did old level 6 in the fall and was a state champion. Found out in November after state that she was being given the opportunity to compete level 7 in the spring if she could get ready. She had ZERO level 7 skills. Had never done a giant even in straps. Nothing beyond the level 6 skills on floor or beam. The one advantage she had was being a very strong bar worker. I actually have video proof of her learning those skills over Thanksgiving break for the first time and she was ready by February. She actually scored better in level 7 in the spring than she did in old 6 which is very typical. She had several teammates who did the same. From the outside maybe you would make the judgement that she was competing old level 6 for the medals, but you would have been wrong. She was just able to pick up the skills in time to compete.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

She had ZERO level 7 skills. Had never done a giant even in straps..

You technically don't need a giant to do level 7

 

[gymbeam]

........

Totally my opinion. You compete L5 at states with 37/38s and higher and then within less then a month compete L7 with 36/37s. You only did L5 states for the medals.

The kids should of moved on from L5 after they scored out. Because after all everyone who has kids going to optionals realize its not about the medals. The goal for those gyms are to get them optionals. So no need to do states. States is not a requirement to move on.

And next we are not talking about a few kids. When those of us who speak of sandbagging. When the whole team is doing L5 at 37/38 and then the same whole team goes to L7 and gets 37/38, its very clear they had those L7 skills for long before that first meet.

Our L7 kids scoring from 34ish to 37ish early season start.

Ok, first, I believe every gymnast has the absolute right to compete each level all the way through to the culminating meet at least once for goodness’ sake.

I can’t speak for other gyms, but our compulsory girls don’t repeat levels except in very rare cases. This means they’ve moved up one level per year- Bronze,silver,4 then 5 PLUS managed to be ready for 7 right afterwards (which is the way the competition calendar has it set up to be done) and THEY are the ones who don’t deserve to go to the level 5 state meet? Psh.

Couldn’t you just as easily argue that the gyms who wait a whole 14 months in between 5 and 7 are the ones actually sandbagging and “holding girls back” ?

It’s my opinion that both methods are legitimate, ethical and effective and that coaching is an art and as such there should be room for creativity in how each coach chooses to develop their athletes working within the rules currently established.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

My kid did old level 6 in the fall and was a state champion.

Old level 6 is the new Level 5. I think any how, I tend to screw that up. Had she done new 6, it would not of been repeating. Glad she had the skills to go to 7.

No one said because you win states at a level you must have all your skills for the next level and are sandbagging. And seriously old level vs new switches are not what anyone was talking about.

And I can't speak for everyone but I think most of us who talk about sandbagging is when we see whole teams scoring 37/38 go to the next level within weeks, like under a month and score 36/37/38 at the next level. Clearly they weren't lacking or not doing skills and pulled it all togehter in a couple weeks.
Yeah, no.

 

[wallflower]

You technically don't need a giant to do level 7

This relates to the discussion how? I wasn't responding to what the requirements are. I was responding to what she learned after level 6 to be ready to do 7. Some of her teammates did freehips to handstand instead. She did both.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

This relates to the discussion how? I wasn't responding to what the requirements are. I was responding to what she learned after level 6 to be ready to do 7. Some of her teammates did freehips to handstand instead. She did both.

You said she didn't have L7 skills because she didn't have a giant. You don't need a giant.

Your quote below

IShe had ZERO level 7 skills. Had never done a giant even in straps.

 

[wallflower]

Old level 6 is the new Level 5. I think any how, I tend to screw that up. Had she done new 6, it would not of been repeating. Glad she had the skills to go to 7.

No one said because you win states at a level you must have all your skills for the next level and are sandbagging. And seriously old level vs new switches are not what anyone was talking about.

And I can't speak for everyone but I think most of us who talk about sandbagging is when we see whole teams scoring 37/38 go to the next level within weeks, like under a month and score 36/37/38 at the next level. Clearly they weren't lacking or not doing skills and pulled it all togehter in a couple weeks.
Yeah, no.

I think you are confused. Old 6 finishing in November and going to straight to 7 in January is EXACTLY the same thing as the current 5 to 7. And yes it was done in a matter of weeks with no prior work on those skills.

 

[l.c.o]

Well, my DD waited >13 months between competitions moving into optionals. Now, not all kids are my DD, but she was a wreck heading into those first couple of meets back. It really is hard to be out of the swing of things that long.

 

[wallflower]

You said she didn't have L7 skills because she didn't have a giant. You don't need a giant.

Your quote below

So then she actually managed to learn MORE than was required. Yay for her. It still doesn't fit your argument that any child who goes from 5 to 7 in a matter of weeks must have been training those skills and was competing 5 for the medals.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I think you are confused. Old 6 finishing in November and going to straight to 7 in January is EXACTLY the same thing as the current 5 to 7. And yes it was done in a matter of weeks with no prior work on those skills.

No I'm not confused but I am about done.

I am not speaking about your child's specific circumstances. No one is speaking about your specific child. There is no need to take it personally.

I talking about a team of kids from the same gym who go from a one level to another in under a month. I am talking one level in the beginning of the month, to the next level before the month is out. And score high in the new level after 2 weeks at old. Yeah I am sure they took only 2 weeks to get skills they didn't have 36/37 Not.

Seriously there are gyms who hold kids back and have them compete down to win. It happens. You can agree or disagree but it happens.

Personally not that anyone gives a flying hoot for my opinion. I wish there was a point where you are done with a level. X meets at Y score. One time at states if you have done Z meets.

Really its OK to not do meets for a while and just train.