Parents Uptraining- how important and thoughts

[eryes]

I read a lot on here about up training. It seems that many of the stronger programs work 1-2 levels up from the athletes competition level. How important is proper up training and what is the theory behind it? (Pretty sure I already know, but I'd like to hear other view points)

Also what are your thoughts on these hypothetical gyms:
Gym A - newish (less than 10yrs old), team has solid scores (all 35+) at meets esp. at compulsory levels. Upper levels do well but do bare minimum routines. train only skills needed for level, nothing really more unless parent insists and pays for privates.
Gym B- one of oldest, most established gyms in state. Upper level optional team very strong (&big), compulsorily levels have adequate scores (33-35) but do a lot of up training and TOPS type conditioning tailored to each athlete.

Are there any advantages to only working on 'today's' work? Is one better for certain athlete personality types? What are your experiences? Thoughts, etc?

 

[wallflower]

DD has never really been in an up training situation so I've never really understood how it works. She is typically just working the skills for what level she is about to compete. Our gym has a ton of upper levels. I think we will have close to 25 level 10's next season. More upper levels than lower levels. Lots of conditioning and lots of basics. Not a lot of uptraining of skills though. I do see small bits on bars and beam, but not a lot. Nothing on vault and floor.

 

[eryes]

Thanks, Wallflower. It's interesting to see other gyms work today's skills and be successful. So it must be just another philosophy at achieving the end goal- esp. with a L10 25 kids deep!

What would you say make's your DD's gym stand out from the others?

 

[J&A's mom]

I can only speak of the boys program at my sons gym. They don't do a lot of uptraining, but still do quite well at state, regionals, as well as nationals. With less uptraining comes less injury, and more seem to be totally ready at competitions. Most of the gyms in the area do uptraining. We see what they do at the start of the season. The other gyms change very little throughout the season. Our boys improve during the competition season.

It seems like as long as they get there, does it matter what route they take?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

"uptraining" is probably the most misused word in gymnastics that i have ever seen. if you are training them within their ability you are "sequentially developing" their gymnastics. if you are training up, that suggests working above the ability of the athlete. there is no such thing as uptraining in any sport. athletes are trained by their coaches to work within parameters of their abilities. it's just unsafe to do it any other way in most sports.

 

[eryes]

That's where I would wonder if certain personalities need certain coaching. My DD is good with slow progressions - big steps set her back. But I know many kids who get bored with the slow progressions and the 'flavor' up training brings to their daily workout makes them feel the progress more...??? Does that make sense?

I can see it opening a can of worms for possible injury if the kid is too confident too soon and performs without proper safety/spot in place.

But I also see the positive in theory of letting the athlete try, while working closely with coach, higher level skills before they may see the danger in it. Of course, my DD has never not seen the danger...so I have no experience with it.

 

[eryes]

Lol @ Dunno. Never thought of that, but so true.

Guess its the practicing/learning 1-2 levels above the level currently competing/polishing is what I'm referring to. I see gyms have very different philosophies....Suzie at Gym A may never try a giant until the end of her L6 season. While Suzie at Gym B may begin trying giants on a strap bar at L5.

Pros/cons of each?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

sometimes these nuances between programs are as simple as the coach's learning curve growing right along with the athlete. capiche?

 

[Kiwi]

Interesting question. At our gym the girls train the skills for the step they are going to compete. So there is kind of a rush each year to get all the skills ready in time. I'm coming to think it might be better to compete a level down from where you are training so you are competing skills already mastered. The steps system is based on progressions so the skills are closely related and the routines are similar, so this should not cause confusion. I don't know what other gyms here are doing, but I suspect some are doing this (uptraining or competing down a level, whatever you want to call it).

 

[my4buffaloes]

It seems at our gym they do more of the "uptraining" at the optional levels than the compulsories. I think other gymnasts do more of this than my dd though so it is hard to tell how much is the gym and how much is my dd. She will spend all practice trying to fix a small thing while the other girls rush through old skills to try the new one. I think this might slow her down in the skill progression since she waits to try a new skill until the group does it together. But she will get there on her own time.

 

[Natasha]

At our gym "up training" is individualized and based on progressions. So, for instance my dd's group will have a beam assignment to stick x number of their current series, acro and dance skills. (Sometimes it is required to be consecutive, other times not) After they complete their assignment they are allowed to work on whatever new skills they are working on. So, my dd may have to stick her BHS BHS series and then she gets to work Back Tucks.
Now, drills for higher skills are different. For example, during the summer the L5 and L6 groups are working on vault drills in the pit for vaults they won't compete until L7 or L8. I agree with Dunno though, you really can't safely train "up" above the skill level of the gymnast. I think you really can only compete down.

 

[vagymmomma]

I think Dunno provided the best explanation of what I think it is. It is individualized and it's progressive. Our current gym is very good with that process (at least at the optional level -- not sure at compulsory). I do think that optionals (because of the skill base a gymnast has at that point) lends itself to more varied and continual uptraining. A lot of it is not necessarily a new skill as much as a variant on an existing skill (adding a turn to a jump so it's a straddle 1/2 instead of just a straddle or connecting 2 skills or moving from a tuck to a pike on a flip). This happens all the time at our gym.

What I would say is NOT uptraining is what we had at the compulsory level at our old gym. Practices had a very, very heavy focus on rote learning and repeating compulsory routines rather than learning skills (especially progressive skills). I think this was especially a disservice at old L4 where a number of the skills (at least on bars) were not very progressive. Basic forms are so important though at the compulsory level, a gymnast could be working things even in conditioning that are "progressive" and the gymnast doesn't even realize it.

 

[skschlag]

I think what dunno said made sense. This is what our coach does with our boys. If they have mastered a skill, can demonstrate it consistently, and are ready for the next logical progression, that is what they do. At the compulsary levels, he is not so worried with routines and competitions as he is with skill development progressions. So, I don't think it is considered "uptraining" but developmental training, and is very individual for each child.


(I think he would prefer kids not compete at these levels and just develop, but that is not the case!)

 

[Bajanswife]

Our gymnasts simply train most of the time, based on what they can do and what they are ready for. Competing is kind of incidental. Where we are we only get to compete 3 or 4 times a year (the most any given year may be 5, and only a few would get to compete that much), so we concentrate on training groups rather than competition groups and compete the kids where they best fit when a meet is coming up. You might see a particular gymnast doing skills on a certain apparatus 2 levels above the one she's preparing to compete at her next meet, but look at her on another apparatus and you know why she's not competing those 2 levels above! My DD is a bars girls, but beam is her nemesis - beam keeps her back to a large degree. But she keeps training what she can, and you know she's found the BWO easier than the cartwheel, so she'll do better now than she did when she was in old level 5. I have also found by observing the girls that when they push themselves and learn skills a couple of progressions up from where they need to be to compete, they eventually find those competition skills easier. When you're used to doing 2 BHS and you start adding a back tuck, if you have to go back to just 1 BHS for a meet, it's so easy then! They can relax more while competing their routines because they feel so confident in their skills, knowing they can do much harder stuff (even if the harder stuff isn't pretty yet).

 

[iwannacoach]

Just train as diligently as possible and work hard on meaningfull progressions without respect to competition level or event requirements. Do that for 9 months out of the year, every year or until it gets in the way of being able to compete, then transition into things that reflect the competitive level.

I suppose the above describes uptraining once the skill level surpasses the child's anticipated competition level. Until then it's only window dressing.

 

[Faith]

I think it's more lack of "up training" or whatever you want to call it, that is a concern for me. Gymnasts should always be working drills and progressions, it's the speed of the progression.

I do think some coaches will work on perfecting every tiny little thing before progressing. Doing 2 years of level 4, for example, if the skills are competent, why spend another year perfecting the skills they already have rather than progressions for new ones? Is that any more beneficial than rushing through the skills to get to optionals?

 

[htimcj]

When DD started team she would only work on routines and skills for the level she was competing at for 9 months. No drills for new stuff or anything and a frantic push to do the necessary drills to get the new skills in 3 months. Drove me and DD crazy and undue amounts of stress. Now with newish coaching staff ( two years) the girls will work on routines and skills for the current level and then when those have been completed competently they work on whatever skill progression comes next. So last season DD would do 5 beam routines and then work back handsprings ect.... Now it is stick 10 of each skill for next season and then move on to what will happen next. So right now do 10 cartwheel back tucks, then work roundoffs on the floor beam. It is much less stressful and dd feels like she is always progressing. Much much better way to do it IMO

 

[kayjaybe]

Our gym definitely does "uptraining." It is always based on the child's ability. So right now, some of the girls that just finished L6 might be working Tsuks on the vault, twisting on floor, BHS-BT on beam, etc, depending on their ability.

I like this because it allows them to work up and keeps them interested but isn't going above anyone's individual ability.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

DD has never had a full competition season, so her entire gym career has been spent just learning skill after skill at her own rate. She is fortunate to have had coaches who have been able to train each of the girls in her group at rates that suited them as individuals.

i see this as how our gym works in general. Even for those girls who compete provincially (or nationally) - because we don't do as many meets, they are able to focus on gaining new skills throughout the year, even though they may compete at the level set at the start of the year (that's how it works here.... You start competing a level in the fall, you generally compete there for the year). But they are still learning new things and at the same time polishing competition things. Then after provincials, when we do our in house invitational, many compete the new skills learned over the course of the year and end in a different/higher level.

That is just continuous learning. It works for our girls.

 

[skschlag]

That is just continuous learning. It works for our girls.

I think that is exactly the way it should be. Continuous learning. We are not "uptraining" or "competing down." Kids are just continuously learning.

I like that our gym keeps kids learning and progressing. Keeps D happy!