WAG what a parent sees vs. coaches

[Mickey11]

Hi everyone!

My first post here is a gymnastics question I don't want to ask at my gym! I feel like a bad mom for asking. My question is do coaches ever lie about a child's talent or potential? I have an 8 year old level 4. She's what I'd say a very average gymnast. She gets a couple of 1sts and 2nds periodically during meet season on bars or beam but mostly she's a 4-8th place girl AA. She's not evn close to best scoring wise. In fact the only reason she finishes as she does is her young age group never has that many kids. (Most here in level 4 seem to be 9 -11). This year she hasn't even scored a 35 yet!

But every coach she has always tells me she has soooooo much talent and is going to be so good. one day a level 10 parent didn't know her and was commenting/using her as an example of how a strong girl on bar looks when they are young. So my question is....do they see something I don't??? Haha! Why is all this supposed talent never scoring well? Will she ever score well? Do you think they are just telling me this to keep her in the program and for money? (not that she is thinking of leaving!) Or is it b/c she's so very tiny and they are banking on her staying small?

I know this is a somewhat silly question but I don't want to ask people I know IRL. It's not that I CARE my daughter isn't scoring on top. I just don't get how they all say she has so much talent yet she's such a mediocre kid score wise. Does it just click with some kids when they get older and coaches can see it earlier? I always assumed the kids that are doing awesome at 7,8 and 9 are the ones that still do well in optionals etc. (Skill wise my daughter is WAY ahead of a L4. She has all her L5 skills and many of her L6 skills....it seems to be all the perfection where she loses points if that makes sense)

Thanks for your answers!

 

[vagymmomma]

My daughter's coaches tell her to focus on skills not scores. I think this is especially true at the compulsory levels (3 - 5) where even slight deviations from the routine create deductions. The coaches can spot raw talent but the big unknowns are a gymnast's focus, injuries, and fears. Be prepared for a long and twisting road. All worth it if it's your daughter's passion though.

 

[Dka]

My DD never scored higher than a 35 AA at level 4( old)as an 8 year old and never higher than a 34 at level 5...Coaches said she had lots of potential, but was very average. at level 6 she hit 37... scored almost a 38 at her one and only level 7 meet and hit a 35.875 at her first level 8 meet- she just turned 11. Bars was and has always been her best event!!! sounds like your DD

 

[iwannacoach]

Scoring in the 34"s ain't bad for an 8 year old level 4. Considering the different people commenting on her apparent ability, many with nothing to gain with a lie, she just may be all that and more.

The real answer will come in a few years when it's time for her to compete at level 6 or 7.

 

[Gymdad2]

As an old gymdad who has been around this sport for many years (going on 16 years now), I'd like to address your questions. First, it would be totally unethical for a coach or owner to 'lie' about a child's talent to make money, and I can't believe that such behavior would benefit a gym in the long run. Secondly, there is a world of difference between complulsory and optional gymnastics, and success or non-success at the compulsory level does not necessarily carry over to optionals. While compulsory routines are pre-determined, the optional routines can be designed to amplify the individual gymnast's strengths while minimizing any weaknesses.

Also, as others have said, its not a good idea to pay much attention to scores and placements, especially at the lower levels. As I have always maintained, gymnastics is a marathon and there will be many ups and downs for every gymnast throughout the journey. The best advice I can give is for you to sit back and enjoy the experience with your dd and not worry about placement and numbers. Make sure she knows that your are very proud of her (she is doing a sport that very few can do at all), and that you will always support her and be her number one cheerleader. Good luck to both of you.

 

[Krystan]

A lot of coaches don't fuss about compulsory scores too much for this reason. On my dd's team, dd does very well, but is older and more "poised". I know several of her teammates have a lot more "potential" than her, despite the fact that they don't score so well right now. It's a combination of determination, size/age, muscle, fearlessness, etc. I'm pretty sure once they hit optionals (next year hopefully), those girls will skyrocket.

 

[MaryA]

I think around age 8 or 9, there is a certain body awareness that kids gain... when all of a sudden everything the coaches have said about pointed toes and straight legs and where their arms should be just clicks. Some kids have it younger, but they're the exception, not the rule. If your daughter has level 5 and 6 skills and is very strong, the coaches are probably figuring on that body awareness kicking in soon. It's those straight legs and pointed toes that can make all the difference between a 35 and a 37.

 

[ladybird]

My daughter's coaches tell her to focus on skills not scores. I think this is especially true at the compulsory levels (3 - 5) where even slight deviations from the routine create deductions. The coaches can spot raw talent but the big unknowns are a gymnast's focus, injuries, and fears. Be prepared for a long and twisting road. All worth it if it's your daughter's passion though.

^^^This is the truth. I was told by at least three coaches and several parents at our gym how talented and strong my daughter is. One coach even said my daughter was "one of the most talented kids I have ever worked with." Wow, how's that for setting us up for an emotional roller coaster! Then, fears set in and you start to question everything. My dd repeated level 3/old 4 and is now getting back some confidence. So, no I don't think coaches lie about talent and you have to take scoring in the compulsories with a grain of salt. Easier said than done!

 

[Gymsanity]

'do coaches ever lie about a child's talent or potential?'
Yes. Worked for one who told every child and parent with a pulse that they were going to the Olympics. Drove me crazy, as there will eventually come a reckoning day with hard and hurt feelings when they finally figure out it was all a lie. I may be too honest, but I tell anyone thinking along those lines that there are only 5 girls going to the Olympics, and odds are your dd isn't going to be one of them. I tell them realistically, I can get a college scholarship for most girls that set that as their goal, and that's pretty cool in and of itself.

'But every coach she has always tells me she has soooooo much talent and is going to be so good.'
Trust me, most of us have been doing this a long time, and yes, we see lots that the parents don't see.........good and bad! I have a girl right now that has HUGE courage, but apparently her toes and knees aren't connected to her brain! But I know that when they are, she is going to be amazing. Another girl at 6 years old used to do a front hip circle, hollow body HS, and would often twist off bars. Her parents were disappointed in her score, but I assured them, just you wait and see what happens in a year. Same thing on beam with an over 180 split leap. Didn't always land it at first, but man did it pay off down the road!
In the end, trust her coaches, support your daughter, and enjoy the journey.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Yes! some coaches do lie about a child's talent to get you to commit to more hours or more money.

But it's not that common, and if you are hearing it from multiple coaches then it is probably true.

The kids who get the good scores early on in the lower levels are. It necessarily the ones who make it to the higher levels and score high.

A gymnast can do well in the lower levels if they are a hard worker, listen well, and are a bit of a perfectionist.

But to make it in the high levels they need guts, determination and natural strength, flexibility and speed. Many of these kids don't excel in the lower levels where it is all about who can point their toes the best. But excel at the higher levels when the skills get tough.

 

[Mickey11]

Thanks so much everyone! I was really wondering how what they say vs. how she does just don't match up, KWIM? Thanks for your opinions!

Honestly, gymnastics for my daughter is her lifesaver. She has many learning problems and doesn't excel in school. She's extremely high energy and has ADHD so for her the gym is the place she feels safe and can let loose so I would be MORE than thrilled if she excels in it but again, for her it's her outlet, KWIM? That is how we ended up there - because of her boundless energy. She is THAT kid who after a 5 hour practice still is bouncing, not tired and doesn't want to leave. She is fearless - I always thought it was bad but maybe in gymnastics it will be a good thing, LOL! But yes, in compulsories she can't remember anything- heck last meet she did her beam mount backwards and she forgot her routine doing floor. Or she can't remember her hand placement, etc.....but who is the first girl to be willing to try and master her flyaway or try the RBHS back tuck - that's her!

I'm glad to hear there is hope for her b/c she loves this sport and I was beginning to think they were all just blowing smoke up my....

 

[GYM0M]

I have no doubt in my mind that you as a parent can 'see' your DD abilities so maybe the more appropriate title would be "What a judge sees vs. what coaches see!" LOL! Compulsories are judged on the 'perfection' of the routine. Think of it in terms of school grading, a 34-35 AA translates into about 85-87%, a high B, above average! At 8, would you say she's not going to succeed in college because she makes B's? It's about the same comparison. In my opinion, competitive gymnastics is a sport for very few individuals (compared to other sports). Any child that participates is gifted! As many others have commented, gymnastics is a roller coaster with ups, downs, loops, twists, & turns, enjoy the ride!

 

[gymdog]

It happens, but it doesn't sound like that's what's happening in this case. With the more information you've given, I would say that the discrepancy is probably that your daughter is very naturally "acrobatic" and has a lot of fast twitch muscle, and thus is able to do a lot of gymnastics skills easily. If she has trouble focusing, perfecting compulsory routines is not likely to be her strong point. Every time she adds or forgets something or pauses, she's going to get deductions. But going through compulsories and getting 35s or so is not really a problem. Some kids that's just what it's going to be. That doesn't mean later on she won't have big skills or better scores.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

How a child plays T ball has nothing to do with how they will play baseball later in life. HOWEVER, gymnastics is all about basics and building a proper foundation which is what compulsory gymnastics is designed to assist with. So... Not scoring high because of faults depends on what they are...

 

[txgal]

My DD is a 9 year old L5. As an 8 year old L4 she was scoring in the 37-38 range. As a 9 year old L4 (she stayed 4 when the changes came this season), she scored in the 36-37 range--I guess that would be the equivalent of scoring 36-37 in the old L5. When she was younger--as a 7 ear old L3, for example--her coaches were always telling me how much potential she had even though I didn't see it (her scores in old L3 as a 7 year old were in the 34-35 range). What I have learned since then is that what they were talking about was the potential she had once she GREW UP a little. Now, 3 years later, I can see what they were talking about. She regularly wins 1st and 2nd at almost all meets. In the gym she's already working L7-L8 skills on every event, and she (finally!) believes she has the potential and talent her coaches were telling her she had these past few years. I bet the same thing is true for your DD.

If she loves the sport, loves her gym, and doesn't see practice as a chore but instead as something fun to do a couple of days a week, don't worry about the invisible potential. Trust that her coaches know what they're talking about and will work with her to get her to maximize her potential--even if it doesn't manifest itself this season or next!

 

[gymmommy123]

If scores don't really matter that much at the lower levels, why do so many gyms/coaches require high scores to move a child up? Most gyms in our area want kids scoring 37+ even at low levels, before they'll move the child up to the next level. Even if they have all their skills to move on (plus some!)

 

[Dka]

I think you need to trust the coaches as they are the experts... My dd sounds so similar to yours, She played multiple sports until she finished old level 6( last season) If her coaches held her back she would still be at old level 4! She is now competing level 8 and doing well, so relax and trust them... My daughters weakest event at levels, 4, 5 and 6 was floor, and now it's her second best( behind bars).

 

[vagymmomma]

If scores don't really matter that much at the lower levels, why do so many gyms/coaches require high scores to move a child up? Most gyms in our area want kids scoring 37+ even at low levels, before they'll move the child up to the next level. Even if they have all their skills to move on (plus some!)

I think this is a good a fair and question. I think the answer depends on the coaching philosophy at a particular gym and the reason for the low scores. As several posters have said, some younger gymnasts just don't get the pointed toe, straight leg, graceful arms, and specific dance sequences. It is something that they grow into. These deductions can be killer at the compulsory level. Yet they may have all the natural ability in the world and be very capable from a skill perspective.

The danger parents can tread into is that there is a huge difference between doing a skill and doing a skill correctly. Some gymnasts take naturally to the proper body shapes and that is extremely important from a progression view. I think the reality is that if a gymnast is not scoring a certain minimum, they probably haven't mastered the skill requirements at a particular level. What that magical score is will vary between gyms and between coaches.

Scores alone also aren't the sole factor. Maturity and dedication are important (sometimes a very talented gymmie just needs another year before she's ready for a tougher program level). Skills are critical. Girls scoring in the 37s aren't necessarily ready to move up. I've seen plenty of girls in old L4 who score that high, but just couldn't get the kip. Hopefully, the coaches are astute enough to value mastery of a cast differently than mastery of the mill circle (which has no future value as far as I can see).

 

[MaryA]

If scores don't really matter that much at the lower levels, why do so many gyms/coaches require high scores to move a child up? Most gyms in our area want kids scoring 37+ even at low levels, before they'll move the child up to the next level. Even if they have all their skills to move on (plus some!)

I think gyms that do this are the exception and not the rule. But I can see that, if there are several gyms in an area and one gym requires scores like this, the other gyms might feel pressure to follow suit because local parents may be tempted to choose the gym that scores the highest/wins the most. If I had to guess, though, gyms with this kind of requirement probably end up losing a lot of kids due to frustration/boredom who might have stuck with it if they had been allowed to move up when they were competent to compete at the next level.

 

[Krystan]

If scores don't really matter that much at the lower levels, why do so many gyms/coaches require high scores to move a child up? Most gyms in our area want kids scoring 37+ even at low levels, before they'll move the child up to the next level. Even if they have all their skills to move on (plus some!)

I don't really understand gyms that do this. Around here 37s are extremely rare in the compulsory levels. You almost never see them (maybe once or twice a season from specific gyms who do the above). When you do, they're accompanied by grumblings of why on earth the gymnast hasn't been moved up. There are a couple of gyms we compete against that do this, and they do really well in compulsories, but they don't have many optionals. Maybe it works in areas where there are just SO many gymnasts that gyms can really take their pick and not worry about losing a few to boredom, burnout, or gym switches? Not sure.

I am not knocking keeping kids back when necessary. Certainly my dd likes to be super-secure in new skills before she competes them and has "competed down a level" twice now. And our coach prefers girls under 10 spend two years at L4 (old L5) to "mature" - but it's not a rule; she's also had 11yo L10s, so whatever works. But every gymnast is different and some would not do well under that philosophy. A gym that does what's right for each gymnast's age, motivation, talent, potential, maturity, etc, instead of having one blanket "rule for all" makes the most sense to me.