WAG When can you not go back a level?

[proud-gym-mom]

I'm wondering if anyone knows, for USAG… when can you not go back a level? So dd did L4 last year and finished at states at 36.575 AA but didn't place in anything (first time she's not placed at states). She's done two meets at L5 Nov and Dec. She got 32.825 AA at the first and 34.05 at the other with some costly mistakes that were things that she really does know - botched back extension roll (arched but saved with readjusting one of her hands, really ugly) and missed her BWO on beam and forgot to reattempt. Anyway she really does have those skills and assuming she fixes them for the next meet she should be in the 35 AA range (assuming .3 for the back extension roll and .5 for the fall and then .6 for the missed element?).

My question is should I let her repeat L4 or continue with L5 (I posted after her first meet and everyone was so helpful…). Her bars are her weakness although somehow she pulled out an 8.2 this last meet (she's still touching the floor on her clear hip and not connecting the squat on consistently but her casts are now a solid horizontal, tap swings and fly away are pretty good)… she's a hard worker and competes well but isn't one of those superstars and tends to be cautious and take her time to perfect her skills. Once she gets something she is really consistent though and has good strength and decent lines/flexibility and dance etc.

So why repeat L4? Two of her friends are repeating L4 again this year (she tells me that's not the reason though). I think the idea of being at the top vs. always in the middle is appealing to her. She's not a prodigy or one of those kids that is going to place out of a level and this is really for fun, exercise and all the great discipline and lessons gymnastics has given her. I can see her getting to L7 maybe L8 but probably not beyond there or even switching to Xcel somewhere along the way.

So back to my question (sorry for all the background)… now that she's made states at L5 can she compete L4 again and do L4 states? Should she? At what point do they not let you "go back"? I thought if she could do next meet at L4 and see how she does, if she's in the 37 range and places well then maybe she just has a great rest of season and continues to work L5 so that next year instead of starting in the 33 range she's starting at 35 or 36. Or she does L4 again and she basically stays in the low 9s on each event which is where she was end of last season and then we know that that's where she's just going to tap out at a level. I would love to see her do L5 but I am trying really hard to not make this my thing and to make sure this is her thing. She's 10 years old so she definitely can make a decision at this age. Then I kind of feel guilty that if she repeats L4 is she taking away an opportunity for another kid who is doing L4 for the first year? We all know those kids that really should move on and don't and I don't want her to be that kid either. Her coach is great. She says she's ready for L5 but I think she'd understand and support L4 also assuming she can "go back" now that she's made state score for L5? Sorry for the long post… you guys always have great insight!

 

[Ginger]

I believe she can't go back to L4, at least not this season, as she already qualified for the States. From USAG website (JO program overview):
Dropping Back through the Levels

1. Once a gymnast has competed in a Sectional meet, she may NOT drop back to a lower level in the same competitive season.
   • If no Sectional meet is held, then the State Administrative Committee must determine prior to the beginning of the competitive year, a designated "declaration" date for each level for such purpose.
2. If a gymnast does not qualify to the State Championships, she may petition to drop back one Level at the beginning of the next competitive season.
   1. For Levels 7 and below, petition is sent to the State Administrative Committee Chairman.

1. 
   https://usagym.org/pages/women/pages/overview_jo.html

 

[profmom]

From what you report, I can't see how an additional year at L4 would benefit her. Better to do L5 this year and then move on to optionals.

 

[IreneKa]

34 AA at the second meet of the season is a great score! DD's team also had two meets so far, and if anyone who was below 34 moved down a level, we would only have maybe 5 girls stay at their current levels.
Give it time. If it doesn't get better, she can repeat 5 next year.

 

[Sari]

Why move her down when she has all the skills for L5?

The way I see it, being in the middle of the pack will eventually ignite a fire in her to work harder as well as to accept what she may perceive as "failure". Both valuable life lessons. So unless she was feeling totally miserable about the way things are currently - that includes crying, refusing to go to practice or showing signs of severe anxiety before meets - I wouldn't worry. She'll do fine right where she is.

 

[sce]

34 AA at the second meet of the season is a great score! DD's team also had two meets so far, and if anyone who was below 34 moved down a level, we would only have maybe 5 girls stay at their current levels.
Give it time. If it doesn't get better, she can repeat 5 next year.

I agree with all of this. Stay at level 5.

 

[Ali'sMom]

I get it. But I'd keep her in L5.

Old L2 and old L3 my DD was at the top. New L3, not so much. By the end of the year (we compete Sept-april) she was great - hit her "All 9's goal", 37's, etc. It was indeed frustrating for a few months, especially fall.
Over the summer she was having a hard time with the kip. We thought there was a good chance she'd be repeating L3 because of it. She squeaked by, and moved up to L4. We've had 3 meets. She's done okay, and said once how maybe she should have stayed L3, and I knew it was because that way she would have been back near top. I reminded her how great it felt by the end of the season when kicked butt again, and that if she tries, she'll be able to do it again.

Is it hard to watch sometimes? Yup. Do I think she'd have an extra smile at meets if she were repeating L3 and scoring high? A little bit. Do I think she's been better off coming in middle of the pack and trying harder? Absolutely.

 

[proud-gym-mom]

Thanks everyone! My gut was telling me she really belongs at L5 and I went back and looked at her L4 state video and I'm not sure how much more her scores would really go up. It was just so depressing with her getting a 9.4 on floor and not placing last year at states (she was more OK than I was!) and then at this L5 meet we just went to there were some really GOOD gyms there and the girls were getting 9.5 and above and it's the second meet! She was 13 out of 14 with her 34.05 but I do think that she could easily be in the mid 35s at our meet in late Jan. Her biggest thing is those darn bars! We don't have sectionals but from the previous post it looks like it may be an easy sell to her to stay L5 if she can't go back anyhow

 

[MeetDirector]

Proud-gym-mom -

You really don't want your dd going backwards in this sport "just because"; The purpose of compulsories is to get the fundamentals and learn how to compete and get onto optionals. Don't let her go back (besides, I don't think she is allowed to by rule).

Does she need to work on things? Of course. Might she need a second year of Lvl 5? Maybe, but it is too soon to tell. I will tell you this - the key to bars is core, core, and core; oh, and more core. Yes, upper body strength is essential, but all the upper body (shoulder) strength in the world won't keep her legs up during a free-hip.

Don't let isolated, perceived set-backs get you down; keep your eye on the long-range target of optional gymnastics. Don't sell her short - she could easily have level 9 or 10 in her future. Don't go the Xcel route unless she has no post-high school dreams/goals in gymnastics.

Good Luck.

 

[proud-gym-mom]

Thanks MeetDirector, you made me feel a whole lot better (as did the other folks too)! I'm such a perfectionist and type A, I didn't want to be that CGM that takes all the fun out of it for the kid and so I'm struggling to find my happy medium. It's been a hard year for me watching some younger kids that were L4 last year too pass her by and skip up to L6 and L7 and I would be lying if I said that I wasn't just a little jealous of them and wanting that for my dd. I used to compare her to these other kids which I now realize was so wrong and I feel bad that I ever did that. I'm so happy that I found Chalk Bucket and thankful to get such great support when I post because I'm struggling with something inside that I can't always talk to the other moms at our gym or a coach. I can't tell you how much it helps!

 

[Sasha]

In my (limited to one L3 comp season finished) experience, I liken the expression "If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room" also to gymnastics. It may be a momentary boost to be standing on the top of the podium at a level which you've already mastered, but often times stiffer competition and higher standards enable and inspire growth. Better to enter the more challenging 'room' as a 'mid-packer' at first, and start feeling what that is like, absorbing the higher level of excellence around you, working on your own growth in the company of those who have achieved more and inspire you. A mindset change. The competition is really within.

I'm not saying this is always 100% the right thing to do, and certainly not if you don't have the skills at all yet, but I lean that direction for philosophical inspiration when making these kinds of decisions.

I think your daughter would be best served continuing her work in L5, given the info you've shared thus far. Best to her!!

 

[MeetDirector]

It's been a hard year for me watching some younger kids that were L4 last year too pass her by and skip up to L6 and L7 and I would be lying if I said that I wasn't just a little jealous of them and wanting that for my dd. I used to compare her to these other kids which I now realize was so wrong and I feel bad that I ever did that.

At one time or another in the early stages of this crazy sport, I think every parent feels what you have felt and yes, it is very hard to talk to other parents in the gym. Hence, we come here. I will also tell you that these feelings tend to go away the more you trust your dd's coaches. Now, that trust does not come unearned and it takes time. It is worth it, though, when you get to the trust point; it is like a huge weight lifted off your shoulders.

Good Luck.

 

[proud-gym-mom]

Sasha, thanks! That is a really good way to think about it - I hadn't considered that before. I really like that saying and I think you're right, ultimately she'll gain more by being more challenged. She does have the skills, they're not perfect but they're all there. All this feedback really helps me to have the right conversation with her in a very positive manner.

 

[Ali'sMom]

It's been a hard year for me watching some younger kids that were L4 last year too pass her by and skip up to L6 and L7 and I would be lying if I said that I wasn't just a little jealous of them and wanting that for my dd. I used to compare her to these other kids which I now realize was so wrong and I feel bad that I ever did that.

Been there, done that. All better now

No idea what I did there...

 

[gymdog]

Can she repeat? Yes. The declaration date in VA for compulsories is in April. Should she? I don't know. I wouldn't do it to win. You might have been at the same meet we were, and if so you should know that there were multiple 9.7s and 9.8s on every event including floor with pretty accurate scoring. I have no problem with this, but that is the reality we are dealing with. So with this in mind we choose not to repeat anyone with the intention of winning, and only if they really are struggling and would benefit. It sounds like your daughter has already improved a lot. But I would ask myself whether even at level 4 she is capable of 9.8 and 39 all arounds, or does she have "built in" deductions such as less flexibility or tight knees, etc. If so, do not repeat to win, because she will not win. Just push towards optionals instead, as long as the progression is safe. In the long run she probably will not get a 39, but is more likely to outgrow the sport the longer she stays in compulsories. So repeat to win here is not a viable strategy to me.

 

[wgymmom]

L5 is tough and you can't expect the scores to be like L3 or 4. My DD had all 36+ at old 4, everything from 34.95 to 37.25 at new 4, and 35.375 to 35.875 at new 5. She actually won 3 meets with those AA scores.

Absolutely zero reason to go back, IMO. I kind of feel sorry for the girls at Those Gyms because who cares if you have a 9.3 instead of a 9.8?

 

[gymdog]

L5 is tough and you can't expect the scores to be like L3 or 4. My DD had all 36+ at old 4, everything from 34.95 to 37.25 at new 4, and 35.375 to 35.875 at new 5. She actually won 3 meets with those AA scores.

Absolutely zero reason to go back, IMO. I kind of feel sorry for the girls at Those Gyms because who cares if you have a 9.3 instead of a 9.8?

None of those kids were repeating either or very old. And scores here are a bit on the high side but this meet was fairly accurate for our state like the judges weren't just going to crazy. But it is December and our states aren't until May. So that is why I don't say repeat to win, we have up to 800 compulsories at level 3 states here before so you're not going to win if you don't have the kind of lines and body control that allow for clean compulsory routines. BUT that doesn't mean you can't be a successful optional and maybe even a level 10. I was looking through some old results in our state awhile back, a level 4 sectional or something, and it almost choked when I saw the name of a kid who finished dead last at that meet and DID NOT qualify to states. She went on to be a successful level 10 who tested elite. Consistently when I look through results I see names in the middle or bottom who are level 8-10 today. Of course doesn't mean any kid isn't gonna be amazing either, just that it seems to correlate to nothing. Gabby Douglas won most of her old level 4 meets and states, competed level 7 the next season (unheard of at the time) and then continued to win most of the JO meets she entered from then on. So sometimes kids are just incredible and not repeating or something, they really just are built for this sport.

 

[proud-gym-mom]

gymdog, you always have great insight. We were at the Gymstrada Invitational. That's sort of what I was thinking too, just because you repeat doesn't mean you're going to be on the top. She's not a noodle or anything but I know what you mean. We know a girl who is that really tight body form, super strong, super fearless and that kid is amazing to watch. The moment you see her you just go WOW! I love my dd but I do understand there is a big difference

wgymmom, that's kind of what I was hoping to hear about too… what others' experiences have been with L5. I think she can most definitely get to 35 next meet and get in that range that you're talking about.

Anyhow, I also wanted to post a little update too… I was able to watch about 30 mins of her practice tonight and she got her cast to handstand! Just stand alone, not connected to anything yet. Sometimes she'd go over the bar, sometimes she'd hold it and go back down but she's not ever come close to that before! I was floored! I could barely contain my excitement, the other moms must have thought I was crazy. I was so proud of her… she went for it! It was so glorious to watch! I know that's not everything but the bars is her nemesis and her weakest event right now and to see her do that… well I have to say I got a little misty eyed

It's funny, my dd was the toddler who was too scared to go down the slide even a little one, she was the one that clutched to me and held onto my legs and was super hesitant of any new situation. That's why I put her in gymnastics… seeing her "go for it" and be brave just makes me so happy. I was never a gymnast but I have truly come to love this sport.

 

[wgymmom]

It's fairly obvious from MMS what's going on with some of these girls.

 

[gymdog]

It's fairly obvious from MMS what's going on with some of these girls.

Oh, it is a huge problem in our state in general, however I don't feel at this particular meet that was the problem. Quite a few top scorers did only one year of 3 and are in their first year of 4. Several were 7-8 years old.

In general, though there is a huge problem with this and some of the kids literally had 38s and won state the previous year. That is up to the coach I guess, but there is no point repeating to try to beat these situations...you will just not win more. I agree with developing proper basics.