Coaches Xcel silver bar question

[Jasmynn]

I thought xcel silver bar routines had to have 5 elements? I keep seeing silver bar routines of YouTube eith
Glide swing
Pullover
Back hip circle
Dismount
That's only 4. How is their start value 10?

 

[Jasmynn]

These were upload the last week or 3.

 

[Jasmynn]

The 2st video was scored 9.8

 

[Jasmynn]

I meant the 1st video was scored 9.8

 

[wandrewsjr]

The cast before the back hip is an element.

 

[fuzi]

Yep.

1. Glide
2. Pullover
3. Cast
4. Back hip
5. Underswing

Five elements, cast, circling skill, dismount. That's all that is required!

 

[sevenatenine2]

And those routines score really high!

 

[Jasmynn]

Thank you! I'm changing our routines immediately!

 

[gymdog]

And actually, I think you can do pullover, cast, back hip, cast, straddle on undershoot and have it count as 5....Fuzi can confirm, I don't coach Xcel but think I read that on here. Initially I assumed that was what you were seeing as 4 element routines because to me that is 4...

 

[fuzi]

And actually, I think you can do pullover, cast, back hip, cast, straddle on undershoot and have it count as 5....Fuzi can confirm, I don't coach Xcel but think I read that on here. Initially I assumed that was what you were seeing as 4 element routines because to me that is 4...

Yes, this routine also meets all requirements for Xcel silver. And scores high!

 

[wgagym]

Gym dog they do not get credit for the same skill twice so they would not get credit for the second cast and would only be 4 skills.

 

[raenndrops]

I thought xcel silver bar routines had to have 5 elements? I keep seeing silver bar routines of YouTube eith
Glide swing
Pullover
Back hip circle
Dismount
That's only 4. How is their start value 10?

There is a cast before the back hip circle

 

[gymdog]

Gym dog they do not get credit for the same skill twice so they would not get credit for the second cast and would only be 4 skills.

I'm not sure about that. I think they get credit as long as the cast exits differently. But I'll see if I can verify. Now whether they SHOULD get credit for it, I don't know. I think in order to make the rules consistent they clarified this. If a gold does a kip cast back hip on low bar, squat on, kip cast back hip undershoot, should the second cast not get credit? Now if they do a straddle undershoot instead, should it not get credit? This was the issue. I don't know if I agree but I can see what the point of consistency is.

 

[gymdog]

https://usagym.org/docs/Women/xcel/bardeductions.pdf

"Two casts are allowed for "A" value part credit provided they are in different connections"

Third cast, no credit.

And on the requirement charts under bars, it is noted that "when a cast precedes a skill both the cast and the skill will be awarded VP credit"

So a straddle undershoot is preceded by a cast, it gets awarded VP credit for two skills.

 

[wgagym]

Huh... I knew that they can get credit for the same skill as long as one is on low bar and one on high so a cast on each would have credit but never realized they could have two on low bar. I think that is silly I swear when I think I have everything down..

 

[wandrewsjr]

What gym dog said. A skill can count a second time as long as the connection is different. They added the clarification about doing the same skill on low and high because they are talking about an instance where the connection is the same - cast back hip on low and high you can count both even though same connection because on different bars.

 

[gymdog]

Huh... I knew that they can get credit for the same skill as long as one is on low bar and one on high so a cast on each would have credit but never realized they could have two on low bar. I think that is silly I swear when I think I have everything down..

Like I said, I only remembered it at all because I was kind of surprised when I heard it. I wouldn't really consider a straddle undershoot from front support to have a cast prior to it, just because I think that cast is nominal. Most kids in this level don't use a drag drop technique into the undershoot that shows a distinct cast but I guess I get the point that they were trying to stay consistent.

 

[raenndrops]

Like I said, I only remembered it at all because I was kind of surprised when I heard it. I wouldn't really consider a straddle undershoot from front support to have a cast prior to it, just because I think that cast is nominal. Most kids in this level don't use a drag drop technique into the undershoot that shows a distinct cast but I guess I get the point that they were trying to stay consistent.

In Xcel Bronze, silver, and Gold, any time the hips leave the bar it is counted as a cast… which sucks when a girl in Gold slams into the bar so hard her hips bounce back off and she has already done one cast below horizontal or arched or whatever before the skill and was going to do a cast to horizontal after. Then she won't get credit for the horizontal cast because it is #3 on that bar.

 

[gymdog]

In Xcel Bronze, silver, and Gold, any time the hips leave the bar it is counted as a cast… which sucks when a girl in Gold slams into the bar so hard her hips bounce back off and she has already done one cast below horizontal or arched or whatever before the skill and was going to do a cast to horizontal after. Then she won't get credit for the horizontal cast because it is #3 on that bar.

Yes, same holds for other levels. But in the level program they are deducted for extra swings or cast amplitude, in Xcel they are not. I guess in optional levels since a not handstand cast has no VP, it's not exactly the same situation, but they would get a deduction. Although I guess there is no cast hips back to bar past level 4 in JO, anyway, I know in Xcel they are allowed to do for example cast back hip, straddle undershoot without necessarily incurring a rhythm deduction.

 

[raenndrops]

Yes, same holds for other levels. But in the level program they are deducted for extra swings or cast amplitude, in Xcel they are not. I guess in optional levels since a not handstand cast has no VP, it's not exactly the same situation, but they would get a deduction. Although I guess there is no cast hips back to bar past level 4 in JO, anyway, I know in Xcel they are allowed to do for example cast back hip, straddle undershoot without necessarily incurring a rhythm deduction.

And Xcel has an A cast and a B cast - the cast handstand