Parents Holding Kids Back Intentionally

[Shelovesthebars]

I saw a thread about talent so this got me thinking that maybe I could get some advice from parents and coaches. My daughter is 4 so she can't compete until she is 6. Her coach approached me recently and told me that they are intentionally going to hold her back. I agreed at the time. She has been in the same preschool class (team track) for 2 years and is starting to express boredom and frustration in her current class. She is being separated for most of the class and is starting to notice. Her main coach has recently started doing a half hour private with her once a week but I would like her to be in a class at her level so that she could be with other kids. It would just be a more advanced preschool class, not competitive. She has 99% (yes, even a good round off backhandspring) of her level 4 skills but hasn't learned routines. I love this gym and wouldn't consider switching. We recently tried a new teacher that is working well with her in her class but she is also showing her new things that she is picking up very easily. She also takes dance and plays soccer for fun. I just would like to keep her in the gym and also help her with her frustration. Some of the girls she is in class with can't even do a pullover let alone a back hip circle. These are skills she had at 3. She sat down during a recent class during bar because she is frustrated. She has never done this before. She did get right back up when the coach told her too but she is trying to send us a message. Do I take her out and bring her back later, in a year or so? I don't want to do this because I think she will lose some of her strength and flexibility but I don't want her to associate gym with frustration and end up quitting on her own. Should I approach the coach? I have never done that because I think they are intelligent and know what they are doing. We do the preschool open gym occasionally but that sometimes is weird because she likes to do her floor skills, beam skills, and level 4 bar routine and people freak out and don't leave us just to play. She is small for her age too so she looks younger than 4 so we always get "how old is she". I get that just because she is talented now doesn't mean she will be later but I want her to be able to continue to progress if she can.

 

[cathiann]

Things have changed since you agreed to her being held back (are they doing that because she's so young??)--I'd approach the coache again and talk to them. Let them know your DD is getting bored and she needs to advance or she'll want to quit. Your gym doesn't have a team track program? Ours starts at 4 yrs, so she would definitely be invited to it with her having her back hip circle, etc.!

 

[starmaker]

It's really tough when you have a super young, super talented gymmie. When dd was younger (about 4 yo) we struggled finding a good fit for her too. At her current gym at the time the pace was too slow. They noticed her boredom so they started an advance preschool class (pre preteam) and started with more advance skills. Still my dd wanted more and this time they held her back. After a couple of months of dragging dd to gym, I decided it was time to find another gym that is willing to work at her ability all the while keeping her age in mind.

Her new gym really pushed her along and she was loving gym again. They had her compete at 4 years old in level 2 and again at 5 years old in level 3. Unfortunately somewhere down the line they "forgot" her age and expected too much from her. They wanted her for their morning program which meant training 24 - 30 hours a week. Obviously that was not something I was willing to do with my nearly 6 year old.

Now that she is older it's a bit easier to find a right fit for her. Although she is still the youngest(6years old) in her level 5 group she understands and knows what to expect. The girls in her group are starting to accept her as equal and are not threaten by her. I still make it a point for her to socialize with some of the level 3/4 girls that are closer to her age. I also think her ability and age have leveled off a bit. When she was 4 years old and doing backhandsprings and straddle presses it was tough to find a group of kids doing similar. Now her age has sort of caught up to her abilities. She is still progressing and most importantly loving gym.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

Cathiann: The class she has been in now is our team track level 1/2. There is a 3/4 team track level class that she could do but it is for 5 to 6 year olds at the youngest . She has been uptrained because she came into the class she is in now with all of her level 1/2 skills so because of her age she was put in her current class at 3. I was ok with not moving her up last month when I was appoached by her coach because my DD didn't seem to be have a clue nor be bothered by it. Now she is unhappy being by herself or being used as the demonstrator. She sat down during the bar rotation because she is tired of waiting for the other girls to get a few pullovers which they struggle with. She got in trouble for sitting down. Just to let you know, my dauther can do the level 4 bar routine beautifully. She isn't happy lately and I am afraid that this may cause problems. This is the only decent gym around and I like them overall so switching isn't an option. She also did a cast handstand on accident (never taught these) during casting drills and got scolded for almost going over the bar. She has been invited to do level 3 competition team next year so we have that to look forward to if she makes it that long. I will talk to her coach today. And yes, age is the reason they are holding her back, not skill. The privates were suggested by her coach so that she can give her the attention she needs without moving her up. They don't even touch the bar during private and this is her favorite event.
Starmaker My DD was doing press handstands last week on the parallettes against the wall and rolling out onto a mat. After her private, I told the coach that she could do them from the floor by herself (courtesy of watching your DD). So she challenged her to do one right by the parents seats and my DD whipped out 2. She just shook her head and said that now she would have to train them on the beam. She was shocked! Tell your DD thanks! She wouldn't have tried them if she hadn't seen them.

 

[mariposa]

I think you already got good advice. It is tough having a really talented kid. My DDs friend was like yours, but they kept her hours down and kept her challenged at her gym until she was 5 1/2 and she moved to L4/9 hours a week. She is very much like Liv, but she didn't ever increase her hours until 5 1/2. She has always been the youngest, but not by too much, which helped.

I think that as a parent I would rather have the not so talented kid that does things when everyone else does like I have. It is hard to have a kid that is super talented, wants more, but is soo young. Much harder decisions to make than I have had with my kiddo and gymnastics has pushed me to think things out many times already.

Hang in there and follow your gut. Try to keep her challenged. Talk to the coaches and tell them she is getting bored. When will she be 5? Maybe they could put in her with the 3/4s part of the time and keep her with the 1/2s the other time? Being 4 with 5/6 year olds isn't that bad. I think it is easier sometimes than having a huge age difference, though some older girls are simply amazing with the little ones.

Glad you have found the CB. You will find it invaluable. We have some wonderful people here!

 

[starmaker]

Shelovesbars,

Sounds to me like you have an extemely talented little gymmie in your hands. I am assuming she is being uptrained if she has her level 4 bars skills. She seems very strong and determined. Maybe they can work some TOPS skills with her. Rope climbs, cast handstands, straddle presses, etc. If she is anything like Olivia she will love that challenge!!

How are the rest of her skills on the other events?? Is she also strong on floor and beam? I can't wait to see her compete. She's going to make an adorable level 3 gymnast. Once she starts competing things will change for her. It will become more about perfecting "old" "simple" skills instead of just learning the next big skill. Olivia was a lot like that too. She was only happy when learning a big new skill. With competing and maturity she's realized that it's more that just big skills. Liv for a while was clueless about form and leg extensions. It's just now starting to click for her.

I wish your dd the very best. I can't wait to see a progress video!!!

 

[MdGymMom01]

Does she do anything else besides gym? I would suggest getting her involved in other activities such as dance (ballet is awesome for gymnasts) or soccer. So many gymnasts have little hand/eye coordination and I think that that is a good skill to have as a kid growing up. The bottom line is that she cannot compete until she is 6 so she still has 2 more years. I would expose her to as many other activities now so that she broadens her interests. This is a tough one since she is only 4. You can't really have too many expectations for kids this young.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

My DD does soccer, ballet, tap, acro, swimming, dives at her brothers practice just for fun, skateboards and goes to school 4 mornings a week. She wants to wrestle and play basketball too but there are only so many hours in the day. I don't have expectations for her per say but if she is doing something, it should at least be enjoyable. She only does gym for 2.5 hours per week.

We went to her private today and I was ready to talk to her coach which I have never done before. I am a firm believer that our coaches are intelligent and knowlegable. My faith was confirmed. Before I even got to say anything, her head coach said "We can't do this anymore. We need to move her up now". She is moving up on Thursday to level 3/4 but with a modified schedule. She will train with the girls for 1.5 hours and for half and hour another day. So that is even less time in the gym. I have an optional day that I can bring her to for another hour but I think I will opt for the museum or the aquarium instead.
Yes, she is strong on every event. Bars are her love though. I think even if she was terrible at them she would like them best. She likes hanging and flying through the air.

So onward and upward we go. We will see how this goes. I will keep you posted. Thanks to everyone for the advice!

 

[MdGymMom01]

Time to breathe and take it one day at a time...

I think that it is essential that I bring up the following thread:

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/chalk-bucket/24105-keeping-real-fun-kids.html

We are talking about a 4 year old here, aren't we???

Oh, and IMHO, no 4 year old should be taking privates for any "extra curricular activity" or sport of any kind. PERIOD. Just seems like a waste of money to me.

 

[Bobby]

...IMHO, no 4 year old should be taking privates for any "extra curricular activity" or sport of any kind. PERIOD. Just seems like a waste of money to me.

I agree for 99% of the 4 y/o population ... but it sounds to me like this 4 y/o may really be in the 1% that just aren't served by the regular curriculum and needs an outlet ... and whilstever privates are the only available outlet then IMHO - so be it.
If we were talking about a 4 y/o who was far beyond the regular reading curriculum we wouldn't be suggesting parents/teachers withhold higher level books on the basis of age alone - would we?? It's not like this 4 y/o is focusing on gym at the expense of anything else - is she?

 

[mariposa]

My DD does soccer, ballet, tap, acro, swimming, dives at her brothers practice just for fun, skateboards and goes to school 4 mornings a week. She wants to wrestle and play basketball too but there are only so many hours in the day. I don't have expectations for her per say but if she is doing something, it should at least be enjoyable. She only does gym for 2.5 hours per week.

We went to her private today and I was ready to talk to her coach which I have never done before. I am a firm believer that our coaches are intelligent and knowlegable. My faith was confirmed. Before I even got to say anything, her head coach said "We can't do this anymore. We need to move her up now". She is moving up on Thursday to level 3/4 but with a modified schedule. She will train with the girls for 1.5 hours and for half and hour another day. So that is even less time in the gym. I have an optional day that I can bring her to for another hour but I think I will opt for the museum or the aquarium instead.
Yes, she is strong on every event. Bars are her love though. I think even if she was terrible at them she would like them best. She likes hanging and flying through the air.

So onward and upward we go. We will see how this goes. I will keep you posted. Thanks to everyone for the advice!

This sounds like the perfect solution to me. Still at hours appropriate for a 4 year old and should keep her challenged.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Ok, your daughter sounds extremely talented. To be able to do pullovers and back hip circles at three is very very rare, and to have excellent level 4 skills at 4 is extremely rare.

Also she has the personality for gymnastics she obviously has a ridiculous amount of energy, which is exactly what we look for in our top gymnasts.

It sounds like your gym has not had such a talented youngster before and aren't quite sure what to do with her. You may need to be a bit of an interfering mother to get things done for her, I do mean interfering in a good way.

She already has the talent and the skills to do well, the training isn't what is as important right now. What is important at 4 is that she enjoys the gym, so she stays involved in the sport long enough to be able to use that talent. It sounds like they are putting her into level 3 to kill time until she is old enough to do level 4, they will then do the same to kill time until she is old enough to compete level 5. This is not a good way to do things with kids like this. If she already has all the level 4 skills then a year of competing level 3 will bore her terribly. During competition season there will be very little focus on learning new skills, it will be lots and lots of routine repetition, of routines that are too easy for her.

Ideally the coaches should be working with her on strength and flexibility while focussing on more difficult skills. Level 3 and 4 skills are not as useful for future gymnastics and a good program for an extremely talented gymnast would focus more on developing level 5 skills.

A lot of people will say to you "you'll burn her out, she is doing too much for a 4 year old". But it sounds like she is NOT your average 4 year old at all. You will know when she is doing too much, she won't bound into the gym with total enthusiasm anymore.

What I would do is let her have a go at these level 3/4 classes and see how she goes. See where she fits in skill wise. See if 1. She is being challenged and working on new things, and 2. She is still full of energy at the end. If she is why not have a chat to the coaches on the side and say "she is coming home still full of energy could we give it a try that she does the full classes" and take it from there.

 

[emorymom]

I agree for 99% of the 4 y/o population ... but it sounds to me like this 4 y/o may really be in the 1% that just aren't served by the regular curriculum and needs an outlet ... and whilstever privates are the only available outlet then IMHO - so be it.
If we were talking about a 4 y/o who was far beyond the regular reading curriculum we wouldn't be suggesting parents/teachers withhold higher level books on the basis of age alone - would we?? It's not like this 4 y/o is focusing on gym at the expense of anything else - is she?

Yes, I agree with this. It is often better for the highly gifted to be worked with individually than having them in a group that is a bad age or ability fit.

My 4 y/o ... I would do 2, 1-hour privates for his tumbling if I could. I just can't afford it but sometimes I throw him one instead of a practice and he is so happy. Normally he is in class with girls 9+. Sometimes there is a younger boy there, but he doesn't have any skills yet. Sometimes the coach's kids are there and they are close to his age but they normally train with the level 5+ group I think.

 

[emorymom]

I agree for 99% of the 4 y/o population ... but it sounds to me like this 4 y/o may really be in the 1% that just aren't served by the regular curriculum and needs an outlet ... and whilstever privates are the only available outlet then IMHO - so be it.
If we were talking about a 4 y/o who was far beyond the regular reading curriculum we wouldn't be suggesting parents/teachers withhold higher level books on the basis of age alone - would we?? It's not like this 4 y/o is focusing on gym at the expense of anything else - is she?

Yes, I agree with this. It is often better for the highly gifted to be worked with individually than having them in a group that is a bad age or ability fit.

My 4 y/o ... I would do 2, 1-hour privates for his tumbling if I could. I just can't afford it but sometimes I throw him one instead of a practice and he is so happy. Normally he is in class with girls 9+. Sometimes there is a younger boy there, but he doesn't have any skills yet and is younger than my son. Sometimes the coach's kids are there and they are close to his age but they normally train with the level 5+ group I think.

The alternative is that he not train at all, which doesn't seem right either.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

MdGymMom01 Thank you for the advice. It is really important in getting advice from both sides of the fence. I read all of your posts several times about keeping it real before I even signed up as a member. I think for the current situation, that is exactly what I am doing. Fact She is way ahead physically and mentally for a 4 year old. Fact Just staying where she is right now will make her hate gym Fact Her 8 half hour privates were a way of allowing her to have coach attention to be able to practice the skills she has in a SAFE environment, not off on her own while the coaches attention is on the rest of the kids. Fact Her privates are the same price as a regular class because they are not recommended for anything other than a case that is exceptional in nature at our gym. The coach is not getting rich. I have been in this situation and handled it differently with my 11 year old son. We put him in a trampoline class when he was 4. He was way too advanced and hated it. We didn't speak up. We took him out and let him just play on ours while he did every other sport imaginable. This summer, his tricks outgrew our trampoline. We found him a local coach and after 9 months of very low key traing, my 11 year old is 4th in the nation. So I will try the level 3/4 in the hopes that she continues to like gym.
Aussie-Coach Yes, I think she will go crazy training level 3/4 but if the coaches see this, I have faith that they will adjust. If not, taking a break won't be the end of the world because she will definately not be sitting idle. I don't even think it would be possible for her.
I never thought that I would be doing this for a four year old either. But she is truly different. She leaves people everywhere shaking their heads. I think she is an old soul in a new body. A body that never stops moving!

 

[gymnut1]

I want to see a video of her she sounds so amazing. What a little talent. Can we see her level 4 bars routine. It is so rare to be this talented at 4. It sounds like you need very specialist coaches for her. I remember seeing these videos of Ashley Priess on youtube and being amazed. Have you seen them

YouTube - Ashley Priess 1996 Tsuk into pit (Age 5)

YouTube - Ashley Priess 1996 Giants in strap bar (Age 5)

YouTube - Ashley Priess 1996 Back handspring (Age 5)


Good luck with finding the right route for her and please get your camera out!

 

[Shelovesthebars]

Yes Ashley is amazing!!! I just got a real video camera for Christmas for taping my kids. I wish I had gotten it earlier. I am not good at all the computer stuff so bear with me. I will ask if it is ok for me to tape at our gym. I really want to get it on tape too because I want her to see it when she is older. It is funny that you mentioned youtube because my DD watched OliviasClub from the time she turned 3 and a girl named acroanna (both amazing to me) and said I can do that too. And the crazy thing is she just kept trying and she picked up the skills. Youtube is a great teaching tool. I had to stop her from doing straddle presses in a restaurant booth yesterday. I guess I should put the camera in my purse so I can show her what a nut she was at 4. We do have some of the best coaches in the world so we will see how she progresses.

 

[cathiann]

My DD does soccer, ballet, tap, acro, swimming, dives at her brothers practice just for fun, skateboards and goes to school 4 mornings a week. She wants to wrestle and play basketball too but there are only so many hours in the day. I don't have expectations for her per say but if she is doing something, it should at least be enjoyable. She only does gym for 2.5 hours per week.

We went to her private today and I was ready to talk to her coach which I have never done before. I am a firm believer that our coaches are intelligent and knowlegable. My faith was confirmed. Before I even got to say anything, her head coach said "We can't do this anymore. We need to move her up now". She is moving up on Thursday to level 3/4 but with a modified schedule. She will train with the girls for 1.5 hours and for half and hour another day. So that is even less time in the gym. I have an optional day that I can bring her to for another hour but I think I will opt for the museum or the aquarium instead.
Yes, she is strong on every event. Bars are her love though. I think even if she was terrible at them she would like them best. She likes hanging and flying through the air.

So onward and upward we go. We will see how this goes. I will keep you posted. Thanks to everyone for the advice!

Yeah! Glad the coaches noticed she needs more.