Making daughter quit for lack of improvement update

[sally]

Just wondering if she is talking and mucking around in class why is her coach allowing this? If my dd was mucking around in her class I would like to see how many rope climbs she would make my dd do for mucking around.

 

[bookworm]

I have done way more than many parents would do to create a loving and caring home. One where my daughter does not have to stay up until 11 at night doing homework, like some girls in the gym, so I home schooled her. Also, I feel it is very important for children to have some time just to be a "kid" and play, have a little free time, time to spend with friends etc. . . I even drove her up to two hours round trip to a new gym when our other gym lost it's coach so she could have the best opportunity for growth and improvement. I was careful to choose a gym that was positive and not negative because I believe that children need an environment like that to blossom. However, because DH and I asked for a little improvement, and now we are holding her to that I am being lambasted. Really??? We are trying to be positive with her and I even apologized for making it about the scores but she said that she understood. What if it is a good thing for her to realize that it is a sacrifice and take our needs as parents into consideration too? Is that really a bad thing for a child to learn to be empathetic? Really?

BTW, we have an older 14 year old daughter who is getting lost in all of this and she has had to sacrifice too. It takes up so much of her weekends at meets and I am gone many hours a week driving dd to gym and back. Plus, the loss of income from my not working because of gymnastics and paying for gymnastics is going to affect her later when college comes. It really is not fair for her.

I don't think you are being lambasted (your words) for expecting a little improvement or empathy from your child...I think that many just feel that, given your daughter's history, your expectations weren't reasonable for her to achieve...and at this point, with you and your husband feeling as you do, I think the kindest thing would be to pull the plug on her now and be done with it...the cloud hanging over her head must be so draining and it doesn't look as if it's likely to lift any time soon with the improvement you desire , so moving on seems to be in order...

 

[MaryA]

You posted a question... not once, but twice. You wanted to know what we thought. Now you know. As I said before, you are asking those people who are making those sacrifices and who think that it's worth it. If $500/month is not quite 10% of your take-home income, then I would argue that there are those of us who are sacrificing more. Maybe we are the deluded ones... the ones who think that sacrificing so much of our family's time and money is "worth it." There are certainly plenty of people out there who would tell you that WE are the ones with our priorities screwed up. Maybe you should go ask them.

FYI - I don't think it's wrong for you to make this decision because you want to have the freedom to follow your own dreams. After all, if Mama ain't happy, aint nobody happy! I just wish that you hadn't tried to put it on your daughter... if SHE was working harder, if SHE was scoring higher, if SHE was progressing faster. And it seems as though you aren't willing to entertain any less intensive options (prep-op, YMCA, etc.). It's like she has to be on track for a NCAA college scholarship or else it's not worth it, TO YOU, to have her continue.

 

[cher062]

This is going to be long

What you have described with money, time commitment etc is the life style of a family with a competitive gymnast and if you have a gymnast competing at the higher levels especially its going to take alot of time and money to continue. Everyone here is in the same boat. Putting out a mortage pament every month and paying $100 or more per meet with lots of meets a year (18 meet for me at over $100 each plus hotels and airfare for meets over 7 states away). Driving to and from the gym, daughter in the gym 20 + hours a week, eating dinner after 8pm etc.

It is a Family Life Style and things like family vacations, are sacraficed. I had 2 on team until about 4 years ago So we had 2x's the expense and time commitment you are experiencing. I think we put a good 15% or more of our income. Its a decision and sacrafice my husband and I are willing to make for her to continue. We have all choosen to make that sacrafice that you and your hubby have decided not to make. It's not wrong to make either decision It's not a decision that everyone will say yes to. It's not a lifestyle that works for everyone.

No one is trying to be mean, harsh or anything else here - just stating our point of view. Many of us have many years (16 for me) seeing other families struggle with exactly what you have described.

YOU have said on so many occasions here that the REAL reason you want her to quit is the time and money commitment is something you and your husband have already decided isn't worth the sacrafice. If that is the case then involving your DD with the discussion of "do you want to quit", "if you don't improve..." etc doesn't really make sense to me, but it obviously makes sense to you and that's what you see as best for your family and your DD.

you need to just sit her down and have the discussion of the real reason

Daddy and I have had a long discussion and we have decided that the amount of time and money that is going to be involved to continue gymnastics is more than we think this family can afford to continue to give. We have decided that it would be best for you and the whole family for you to seek other interests and give something else a try, so this is going to be your last session on the team. I will let your coach know tomorrow.

We have all given you our advice based on what you posted, Take what you want or need from the advice here, make your decision and move on.

 

[MarR99]

We have all given you our advice based on what you posted, Take what you want or need from the advice here, make your decision and move on.

I am trying to do that. I have taken many things said on here and discussed them with DH trying to get a clearer view of the situation.

I do know that I came on this board looking for others who perhaps had the same difficult and grueling decision to make (regardless of what many think I have shed many tears over this and it does not come easy for me at all) and I was hoping that I could find some sympathy. But instead, most (not all but most) people appear to want us to keep sacrificing for the sake of DD's happiness and fun as long as she just wants to keep at it. We have a family of 4 and our house can't revolve around just one person. How many of you have daughters that have repeated a level 2 years and have not shown improvement the second year and then have had a coach recommend a third year at the same level? I am guessing that it is not that common. And, I would think by now we can see that there is no future in a sport for her individual personality (OK, maybe she could change as she matures but again there is the difficulty of not knowing how long) She just does not care at all about the little details this sport requires. She even admits that to us. So, here we are. It is not fun at all. It is painful. But, I don't want to lie and tell DD that we just can't afford to pay for it any more. We could, if we felt that it was wise to do so.

Also, DH made a profound statement this morning that our older daughter could be the one resenting us if we don't make this decision. She could perhaps understand the investment of so much time and energy of the family if her little sister was doing really well at something. But she has seen the meets this year and she knows her little sis has been struggling. Is it really fair to her?

 

[MdGymMom01]

How many of you have daughters that have repeated a level 2 years and have not shown improvement the second year and then have had a coach recommend a third year at the same level? I am guessing that it is not that common.

I have this exact same daughter. She would have repeated level B (level 5) for the 3rd year in a row this year. She was, however, showing improvement (she scored a 36.70AA at the gym mock meet) so she probably would have had an awesome year. Our decision to quit was similar to yours in that family time and vacations have been sacrificed and with me being a single mom of 2 kids, gym was starting to take up too much time and money. I am grateful that she has her dance to fall back on so she is still very involved and happy to be doing something. Gymnasts quit the sport ALL THE TIME. Change is always hard, but you get over it, adjust and move on. Sometimes it's easier if you just make the decision, move on and don't ponder all the what ifs and start having regrets.



Your dd is young and she will find something else to get involved with.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I am trying to do that. I have taken many things said on here and discussed them with DH trying to get a clearer view of the situation.

I do know that I came on this board looking for others who perhaps had the same difficult and grueling decision to make (regardless of what many think I have shed many tears over this and it does not come easy for me at all) and I was hoping that I could find some sympathy. But instead, most (not all but most) people appear to want us to keep sacrificing for the sake of DD's happiness and fun as long as she just wants to keep at it. We have a family of 4 and our house can't revolve around just one person. How many of you have daughters that have repeated a level 2 years and have not shown improvement the second year and then have had a coach recommend a third year at the same level? I am guessing that it is not that common. And, I would think by now we can see that there is no future in a sport for her individual personality (OK, maybe she could change as she matures but again there is the difficulty of not knowing how long) She just does not care at all about the little details this sport requires. She even admits that to us. So, here we are. It is not fun at all. It is painful. But, I don't want to lie and tell DD that we just can't afford to pay for it any more. We could, if we felt that it was wise to do so.

Also, DH made a profound statement this morning that our older daughter could be the one resenting us if we don't make this decision. She could perhaps understand the investment of so much time and energy of the family if her little sister was doing really well at something. But she has seen the meets this year and she knows her little sis has been struggling. Is it really fair to her?

wow! way to much over-analyzing for me. i regret that i do not have the appropriate couch for this one. i do know that where you're at runs a great program. they work very hard and they produce gymnasts which isn't always mutually exclusive in our industry.

 

[Graafian]

Balance

I'm new here; however, I feel compelled to offer an additional perspective. I think the issue for the OP can be about both the family sacrifice and the talent of the athlete. Every decision generally requires an accounting for the opportunity cost. If an athlete is talented enough to reach an elite level, it's more logical to invest the time and money in elite training costs. It is after all an investment. The OP may be able to see a better return on investment with a different sport or extracurricular activity. It's the same reason why you shouldn't put an additional $30,000 in landscaping on a house you are already upside down on.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

nope.^^^ and this is precisely where parents go wrong. investing in your child is what you do whether it be school, sports, music, etc; it is an investment in life. it's what you do as parents. otherwise? don't have children. it is not for you to say or determine a childs passion. it is the job of the parent to facilitate...no matter the outcome.

by your "perspective", would it be worth the investment if the investment was put in to....say a special needs child? where you would see NO "BETTER" return?

if you don't want to see anything negative at all in the experience of a child's life, then my perspective would be to not have kids at all. 2nd to that would be not to put your children in anything at all. school included.

and cause your new, i'm old with 3 grown and raised and outta here children.)

 

[MaryA]

If we're looking for direct monetary "pay-offs" here, definitely gymnastics is not the place to invest your $$$. The parent who pays for gymnastics with the hope that the child will get a college scholarship, could just as easily be putting that money into a college savings account and KNOW that the child will have enough for college, rather than hoping that she will stay with the sport, that she will not get injured, that she will live up to whatever lofty potential the coaches think she has. When you pay for gymnastics, you have to think of it in terms of life lessons learned... follow your passion, work you a** off at what you love, struggle through the tough times and through the pain without giving up, support your teammates, take constructive criticism, organize your time well... I could go on. Any sort of "pay off" in money or scholarships or glory is a gamble. But a pay-off in what it takes to become a successful human being (any and all definitions of "successful") is (I hope) a sure thing.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

preach Mary preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


p.s. Hey Bog, clear your PM mailbox!

 

[MaryA]

Aw, shucks. I always get a special little thrill when Dunno "likes' one of my posts. Like getting a nod from the king!

 

[Graafian]

Hi dunno,

I disagree with your premise with regard to the parent(s) having a responsibiliy to facilitate their childrens' passions no matter the outcome or cost. I think that as parents we have the responsibiliy to raise our kids towards habits and decision making skills which will enable them to have successful lives. One of those skills I think is the recognition of scarcity and opportunity cost. Scarcity applies to all resources in life, not just time and money. Everything we do in life is framed by scarcity. If my kid loves history, I can not let him spend every hour reading history books. He must also do his math and reading. If a college aged child wants to major in poetry at an online unaccredited University while taking out $60,000 in student loans, as a parent I wouldn't be doing my job if I did not redirect him or her to something with better ROI. Gymnastics and other athletics offer a great deal of return on investment with respect to life skills; however, at a cost of $10,000 a year, I find it overvalued in some cases, particularly those with athletes who will not be able to continue the sport in college or career. Perseverence, diligence, bravery, fortitude can all be acquired at a lower pricetag.

I'm not sure why you brought up children with disabilities. It lends an inflammatory aura to your post. You mustn't take words like investment and return as purely financial. Investment includes love, dreams, hope, and time. There's an excellent month-old article in the NYTimes I'd highly recommend: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/opinion/sunday/notes-from-a-dragon-mom.html .

 

[Graafian]

Hi MaryA,

My use of investment and return is not purely financial. As I wrote in my response to dunno, it all must balance out. The behavioral skills you cite can be acquired through less costly activities.

 

[cher062]

Lets see my daughter started very young 3yo on pre team (they have 3 levels of pre team so you are 6yo when you move to L4) She repeated the last level of pre team because she was stuck on a skill. Level 4 - she repeated so 2 years there. L5 one year L6 one year, L7 first year got injured and only competed a few times. last year L7 did ok, this year she was trying to move up to L8 has most of her skill but is stuck on one or two skills and is competing L7 for 3rd year (hoping she will move to L8 this season at some point but not counting on it) All the L7, L8 L9's all repeating those levels at our gym for at least a 2nd year.

I see lots of girls do at least 2 year at a few levels over the years we spend in this sport especially as they move forward with harder and harder skills. that can cause fear issues to over come or a growth spurt has changed their center of gravity so they have to re-learn just about everything again.


You say you came to this board looking for parents who have faced this gruling decision and find sympathy. Well everyone here HAS faced that decision more than once - I know there have been several times over the 16 years my kids have been doing this that my husband and i have had that same discussion. We can all sympathise with where you are and have. We have offered some alternatives to help her stay in gymnastics and still meet your time and financial needs for family.

We are just a bunch of strangers on a message board who connect to get an Objective point of view, suggestions, and any advice we can use to help us move forward. It's obvious that you and your husband have already made the decision to have her stop as it is what you feel is the best decision for your family and many other families have made that same decision. Those of us here have made a different decision and are offering you suggestion to help continue if that is something you would consider. Take the info, evaluate what is best for your family and move on - so what else is there to discuss, what other support are you looking for?

 

[MaryA]

Hi MaryA,

My use of investment and return is not purely financial. As I wrote in my response to dunno, it all must balance out. The behavioral skills you cite can be acquired through less costly activities.

I don't think anyone is saying that a child who enjoys gymnastics must be able to continue with gymnastics at all costs. The needs of the entire family (financial, time, etc.) need to be taken into consideration. I just don't think that, when a cost/benefit annalysis is performed (and neither the costs nor the benefits need to be financial), the child who "achieves" a high level of gymnastics has necessarily gained a greater "benefit" from gymnastics. I'm thinking of the shy child who learns to confidently salute the judges or the hyper child who learns to focus her energy. In the long run, either of these children (or even just your average kid) might have received a greater "benefit" from gymnastics than another child who makes it to the elite level. I also don't think that the benefits derived from a high-performing, high-pressure gym are necessarily any greater than a Prep Op program or YMCA. In some cases, maybe just the opposite. So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not disagreeing that the cost and the benefit of doing gymnastics needs to be weighed or considered and that sometimes it is truly NOT "worth it" for the child to continue. I'm just disagreeing that higher achievement in the sport = higher benefit gained from participating in the sport.

 

[mamaoftwo]

The problem I, too, have with this instance is the way your DD is being approached. I, too, fear you are certainly not helping her self-confidence. That is such a huge, important part of this sport. Without sufficient self-confidence, why WOULD she be improving? She thinks she can't! She probably feels guilty for wanting to stay in the sport.

I have recently returned to college. We are not exactly well-to-do, or, well, I would not be back in college. My car is an 8 year old Chevy and I don't even remember when my last vacation was (oh, I spent a night in Chicago this summer at my own mother's expense after driving there). My DD is only 7, and even SHE has picked up that gymnastics costs a lot of money and offered to quit. I was livid. It's not her issue - and we aren't THAT poor. Yes the expense does pinch, but to us, it's worth it. She is active, healthy and happy. There are far worse things.

Putting this kind of pressure on your child will not help her in any way. If gymnastics has been determined to be too much of a stress on your family, then that is your own personal decision. But LEAVE IT AT THAT, please. Don't blame your daughter's lack of progress.

My other point is, so if she did well and improved, it WOULD be worth it for your family? That is what I seem to have gathered. So your points seem rather contradictory. Sure, she may find something she is "better" at. Perhaps it will be cheaper. But will it fulfill her in the same way? Will it make her happy? Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I have to say that as long as my DD is happy, I am happy and I feel like I've done my job. To be honest, you are nearly coming off resentful toward your DD and gymnastics. Not that it's completely unreasonable to be frustrated with the sport at times. I am, too.

I am sorry if I am coming off hostile, but I experienced a similar situation as a child. I am 32 and am still not over it and I still have low self-esteem as a result. Children are precious. Please don't hurt her self-esteem. If this is about the money and time, tell her that. Be the adult and make the decision for her, as it seems to be you and your husband's choice to have her quit, not hers. Don't blame her for lack of progress or let her feel blamed or like a failure. There are SO MANY children out there in this world that have not come even close to your DD's gymnastics accomplishments.

So many kids repeat compulsory levels. She may be/may have been a beautiful optional gymnast.

As for your other DD, yes she is equally important. Though I imagine many families manage to make their non-gymnast children feel special and included as well. I can only hope I will.

*off my soapbox*

 

[thefellowsmom]

This is a tough, expensive, grueling, all-consuming sport at the team level. You have said that your daughter does not have the desire to do the work or pay attention to the details that will improve her success in this particular path in this sport.

But, it isn't the only path. Rec op is an excellent option for kids like yours who love to do gymnastics, but don't love the details. At our gym, girls like your daughter wouldn't even be allowed to stay on the team path. Girls who show love of the sport, but not a passion for the details and hard work are funneled into the rec op program. I don't really understand why you aren't considering this as an option, or at least present it to her as an option. Please forgive me if I missed this somewhere in the thread.

I see girls all the time that aren't really that into the team environment. For some it is the hard work, for others the criticism, and for others they just want to have fun and learn tricks and get frustrated with the conditioning and fundamentals. It drives my crazy when I see their parents dragging them into practice. I just don't see how that is worth it or helping the child at all. Of course, unless they are just needing to push through something, but I digress, that is a whole other thread.

My daughter is chomping at the bit, begging for more time at the gym and works tirelessly at the details with a big smile on her face. When tears come from frustration or pain, she only talks about how much it drives her to do even better. This is her passion and I will help her to follow it as far as she wants.

My husband has expressed some concern about the sacrifices this means for our family and I have those concerns too. Everyone here has had those same fears. All of my income (part-time business) goes directly to her gymnastics so as not to impact too harshly the rest of the family. This is what we have agreed will work for us, for now. It will inevitably be an ongoing discussion, year in and year out for as long as she want to keep doing this.

I know that if this wasn't her passion, I wouldn't be spending and sacrificing to keep this all going. I would be helping her to find something she is that passionate about. There are so many options out there. My advice is to go help your daughter find something she does want to pay attention to the details for. And in the meantime, let her do gymnastics for fun, if that is what she wants.

Just my two cents. Good luck with your decision.

 

[SignHere]

There are a LOT of different opinions in this thread! Hopefully, you'll find one to suit your needs...

I have to say - as a mom of 3 (yes, count 'em! 3!) gymmies, I have to say, I probably wouldn't be crushed if one of them decided to quit - it IS expensive and time consuming.

HOWEVER -- I really have to disagree with the poster who implied that gymnastics is not a worthwhile investment for me, as a parent, for my daughters, unless they are going to go elite, or go college. I find that attitude a little off-putting. My daughters have gotten SO much from gymnastics that I consider priceless - self confidence, discipline, goal setting, work ethic, how to work with a team, winning with graciousness, losing with graciousness, and SO MUCH MORE! Plus - great exercise and FUN! They love it. So, as long as my girls love it - I will continue to drive them to and from the gym, and write the checks, and sacrifice - no matter what they score.

 

[thnkGd4kds]

Yes, yes, yes, Mamaoftwo. I believe you've described the crux of this matter well, and the reason it's such a hot button thread.