WAG The ugly side of college gymnastics

[bookworm]

not that it matters but where and when was it posted on another topic? the article was published on Monday, 4/18/2016. chalkbucket forum moves fast, but not that fast - not sure how it could have been buried several pages deep in 2 days

There was a prior article ( released the week of NCAA regionals I think) in that same paper referencing the abuse on the gymnastics team by the thompsons.....it was written by Alyssa Difrancesco...maybe that is the one that is buried in a prior thread...

 

[wandrewsjr]

It was posted on Monday in the Div I NCAA Walk-on Offer Info thread, a thread that was already 13 pages long.

 

[gymgal]

tomtnt said: ↑
not that it matters but where and when was it posted on another topic? the article was published on Monday, 4/18/2016. chalkbucket forum moves fast, but not that fast - not sure how it could have been buried several pages deep in 2 days

normally, threads don't explode but on occasion, you will get a thread that will become several pages long in just a 24 hour period. Just really depends on the topic.

In the case of the thread I was talking about, it was an old thread, started a couple months ago that remains active. The link was posted and the article was discussed by several people.

Again, it is better that this has its own topic because it is important for all to see and very few would have seen it in the other post. so I am glad the OP shared the link.

 

[rosiekat]

I'm also of the opinion that losing the entire cohort of 8 gymnasts should be a huge red flag for someone. I think at least most the stories will have too much of a "he said, she said" to be real evidence, but hard facts are a place to start. (I'm not saying I don't believe the stories, but that as with many things like this, most of them are hard to prove.)

Of course any coach will have athletes who respond well to their methods and those who respond poorly. I'm not at all surprised that there are people defending the coaches, and what they describe may very well be their experience. However, the negative stories are so awful that they need to be truly investigated. It doesn't sound like just a simple issue of "This girl and this coach didn't click."

 

[duyetanh]

It was posted on Monday in the Div I NCAA Walk-on Offer Info thread, a thread that was already 13 pages long.

Thank you! I knew I wasn't 'completely' insane....bahaha

 

[Gymmommy71]

The stuff in that article is horrible. Even worse is how multiple parents/athletes went to the athletic administration to complain and were pretty much ignored.

 

[gymdog]

I have two friends who have left this school. One a walk on one had a full ride. There's more people and stories than this article even touches on.

Right, although I'm glad even more people are coming forward publicly because it offers more confirmation to what was easily dismissed as rumors before. I also know someone who left PSU (transferred and continued doing gymnastics).

As the article notes, out of a large incoming freshman class of 2012, there are no seniors in 2016...

 

[flippingtogether]

And @bookworm, you had posted this a while back, and that is where I heard about Samantha Brown being fired by PSU, and she had some things to say about the program - http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/threads/the-ugly-side-of-college-gymnastics.56092/
Where did SB wind up??

 

[Gymmom5]

After lurking on this forum for over a year I felt compelled to join to comment on this thread. My DD just finished her freshman year on a D1 gymnastics team and has former teammates that are and have been on the bigger teams (Super Six) and smaller teams. I can understand the discrepancies in comments because it has been her personal experience and the experience of others that gymnasts can be treated very differently on the same team. What I can NOT understand is the lack of acknowledgement of this from the favored gymnasts. When this happens on my DD's team the others rally behind and support the targeted gymnast (of course not in the gym!!!) and build up what was torn down. It almost sounds like some of these favored gymnasts have joined in the bullying and have put the blame on the gymnast - didn't practice hard enough, sour grapes, didn't know what they were getting into, injuries, etc. and continue to bully on some of these forums! That to me is just as unacceptable as the abuse in the first place. I'm okay with them telling their experiences, but to somehow blame the less fortunate others for their treatment is incomprehensible - I can not imagine being on a team with these gymnasts - how to make a bad situation worse!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

After lurking on this forum for over a year I felt compelled to join to comment on this thread. My DD just finished her freshman year on a D1 gymnastics team and has former teammates that are and have been on the bigger teams (Super Six) and smaller teams. I can understand the discrepancies in comments because it has been her personal experience and the experience of others that gymnasts can be treated very differently on the same team. What I can NOT understand is the lack of acknowledgement of this from the favored gymnasts. When this happens on my DD's team the others rally behind and support the targeted gymnast (of course not in the gym!!!) and build up what was torn down. It almost sounds like some of these favored gymnasts have joined in the bullying and have put the blame on the gymnast - didn't practice hard enough, sour grapes, didn't know what they were getting into, injuries, etc. and continue to bully on some of these forums! That to me is just as unacceptable as the abuse in the first place. I'm okay with them telling their experiences, but to somehow blame the less fortunate others for their treatment is incomprehensible - I can not imagine being on a team with these gymnasts - how to make a bad situation worse!

The fact that some girls need to rely on other girls to build up and fix what adult/grown up coaches do is despicable and deplorable.

In.Any.Sport.
At.Any.School/Gym.

That girls feel they need to do this but "not in gym" even worse.

Something is broken. And it shouldn't be young athletes spirits.

 

[GymDad9.9]

After lurking on this forum for over a year I felt compelled to join to comment on this thread. My DD just finished her freshman year on a D1 gymnastics team and has former teammates that are and have been on the bigger teams (Super Six) and smaller teams. I can understand the discrepancies in comments because it has been her personal experience and the experience of others that gymnasts can be treated very differently on the same team. What I can NOT understand is the lack of acknowledgement of this from the favored gymnasts. When this happens on my DD's team the others rally behind and support the targeted gymnast (of course not in the gym!!!) and build up what was torn down. It almost sounds like some of these favored gymnasts have joined in the bullying and have put the blame on the gymnast - didn't practice hard enough, sour grapes, didn't know what they were getting into, injuries, etc. and continue to bully on some of these forums! That to me is just as unacceptable as the abuse in the first place. I'm okay with them telling their experiences, but to somehow blame the less fortunate others for their treatment is incomprehensible - I can not imagine being on a team with these gymnasts - how to make a bad situation worse!

OP I appreciate you coming out of the shadows. Something as simple as you coming out here and telling your story, understandably without full details, helps and hopefully matters.

The NCAA has long been known as a Plantation system and it is completely understandable that student athletes can be repressed, abused, and have their opinions on matters suppressed. The scholarship is hung over these kids heads as I believe they are renewed on a yearly basis so there is no "job security" so to speak, much less the prospect of being blacklisted by one's program to other programs. They have no rights and the NCAA has paid lip service to any real reforms, so this will continue.

What athlete wants to tell their parents that a scholarship has been taken away because they were only trying to defend a teammate? How many of us would approve? How many of us would join their child's fight? It gets a little complicated doesn't it?

Just today, this story broke as to the bulging of NCAA and University Athletic Department coffers and whether any of it is finding its way to student athletes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-co...-for-everyone-but-the-students-232051705.html

 

[Midwestmommy]

This unfortunately is not limited to just college gym. I sat through a team meeting (team and parents) not that long ago. Parents knew there were some major problems with this particular team - kids literally pushing their way to the front of the line, nasty mean comments, friendships divided, girls who could not stand each other. There were parents who had very very thinly veiled relief to see someone else's kid fall off the beam, because they were so desperate for their kid to do better than others. This was not a top team in the state, not even close.

Sat in a parent meeting listening to the coaches says these girls were TOO friendly and all got along too well, and that they should tell each other to work harder not give hugs. That they were too supportive of each others' mediocrity. Sat there in silence thinking these are two of the most clueless "donkeys" I have ever had to deal with when it comes to motivativating kids and getting the best out of each of them. They had zero clue what was going on and what the real problems were among these kids. Of course this gym was not one of those asking for parent feedback in surveys.

Their favorite game was to pick one bad cop and one good cop for any meetings/conferences with parents and kids, one tells the kid how awful they are doing and how they want to move them to xcel etc etc. The other is nice and says what a great kid they are and that they think they have potential. It became a running joke among both parents and kids. Toxic environment with no checks and balances. Gymnastics can be a pretty insulated environment with lots of power in the hands of the coaches. Some amazing programs out there. Some not so much.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

^^^^^ and are you still at the gym????

 

[Midwestmommy]

^^^^^ and are you still at the gym????

touché..

 

[Deleted member 18037]

touché..

No really I was just wondering.

 

[tomtnt]

" Sat there in silence" - aren't you part of the problem ?

This unfortunately is not limited to just college gym. I sat through a team meeting (team and parents) not that long ago. Parents knew there were some major problems with this particular team - kids literally pushing their way to the front of the line, nasty mean comments, friendships divided, girls who could not stand each other. There were parents who had very very thinly veiled relief to see someone else's kid fall off the beam, because they were so desperate for their kid to do better than others. This was not a top team in the state, not even close.

Sat in a parent meeting listening to the coaches says these girls were TOO friendly and all got along too well, and that they should tell each other to work harder not give hugs. That they were too supportive of each others' mediocrity. Sat there in silence thinking these are two of the most clueless "donkeys" I have ever had to deal with when it comes to motivativating kids and getting the best out of each of them. They had zero clue what was going on and what the real problems were among these kids. Of course this gym was not one of those asking for parent feedback in surveys.

Their favorite game was to pick one bad cop and one good cop for any meetings/conferences with parents and kids, one tells the kid how awful they are doing and how they want to move them to xcel etc etc. The other is nice and says what a great kid they are and that they think they have potential. It became a running joke among both parents and kids. Toxic environment with no checks and balances. Gymnastics can be a pretty insulated environment with lots of power in the hands of the coaches. Some amazing programs out there. Some not so much.

 

[Midwestmommy]

" Sat there in silence" - aren't you part of the problem ?[/QUOTE

Yes, probably.

No really I was just wondering.

In the process of gently trying to nudge her to another sport and not sign on for another year of this. Thankfully she has some other talents..

 

[GymCMLA]

This unfortunately is not limited to just college gym. I sat through a team meeting (team and parents) not that long ago. Parents knew there were some major problems with this particular team - kids literally pushing their way to the front of the line, nasty mean comments, friendships divided, girls who could not stand each other. There were parents who had very very thinly veiled relief to see someone else's kid fall off the beam, because they were so desperate for their kid to do better than others. This was not a top team in the state, not even close.

Sat in a parent meeting listening to the coaches says these girls were TOO friendly and all got along too well, and that they should tell each other to work harder not give hugs. That they were too supportive of each others' mediocrity. Sat there in silence thinking these are two of the most clueless "donkeys" I have ever had to deal with when it comes to motivativating kids and getting the best out of each of them. They had zero clue what was going on and what the real problems were among these kids. Of course this gym was not one of those asking for parent feedback in surveys.

Their favorite game was to pick one bad cop and one good cop for any meetings/conferences with parents and kids, one tells the kid how awful they are doing and how they want to move them to xcel etc etc. The other is nice and says what a great kid they are and that they think they have potential. It became a running joke among both parents and kids. Toxic environment with no checks and balances. Gymnastics can be a pretty insulated environment with lots of power in the hands of the coaches. Some amazing programs out there. Some not so much.

This sounds exactly like our old gym. (so glad to not be there this past season and wish I would have left later)

It drives me nuts (on this story and comments in OP and in our old gym) that people/parents/kids were so blind to what was happening b/c "it wasn't affecting their kid", "my kid of older, better, learning to cope through it..." blah blah blah crap. It was and is an abusive environment. But in all cases the AD/gym owner may provide some fake ip service, but nothing changes, there are no consequences for the abusive adults.
Very very sad.

 

[flipster]

I would pay to find out what gym(s) you two talked about to make sure to stay away. Not worth the stress. And... you won't know until you're already IN. Why don't we rate gyms like we rate schools?

 

[ProudDad]

I would pay to find out what gym(s) you two talked about to make sure to stay away. Not worth the stress. And... you won't know until you're already IN. Why don't we rate gyms like we rate schools?

In the short time I have been here the have been a few threads about what to look for in/how to evaluate a gym - maybe those should be stickied somewhere. New to the sport folks - I can see them falling into it, but I'm not letting anyone I care about spend the amount of time dd does in environment that I haven't thoroughly vetted.