WAG Gymnasts who always doubt themselves...

[eucoach]

This is a question for parents and coaches:

Do you have any experience with gymnasts who excessively doubt themselves? And what do you do to help them?

I have a gymnast who is consumed by doubts if she might be better off quitting because she might not be good enough. I will talk to her mother today......unless she tells me that her daughter will quit, I need to find a way to get through to her. Here's some information on the situation:
There is no pressure on the girl to make a certain level or reach a certain goal (neither short- nor long-term). She deals with mental blocks on floor from time to time that are always brought on by comeptitions coming closer. Apparently she talks about gymnastics almost every day at home and is constantly worried about not being good enough. The mother is extremely worried about her daughter's well-being - all she ever says is "I just want my child to be happy". I sometimes feel that this puts another kind of pressure on the girl who IMO might feel like a failure for making her mom worried about her. Does that make sense? I'm not a parent so it's very difficult for me to talk to parents without getting the "You don't understand, you are not a parent" response. My instinct would be to explain to the mother to try and not let her daughter feel her own concerns so much. Also - I wonder if it's not counterproductive to always be so responsive when the daughter brings up her worries (which are always the same). Might it not be more helpful to say "We have discussed this many times before, the consensus has been that your coach believes in you and you are doing fine, there is nothing to worry about." Mind you - I'm not advocating to ignore the girl - however, I feel there is only so much that talking about the same thing over and over again, without gaining any new insight, can do.

I'd be really greatful for your thoughts and advice on that....Thanks!

 

[Iwannabemargo]

my dd lacks self belief in all walks of life.

As a baby she was terrified of everything ! Carpet, grass, animals, sand , water, her cousins, aunties, you name it, she was just a very nervous child.

When I took her to school she would cry uncontrollably, grab my leg, have to be pulled off me - every day !

Gymnastics has really helped her emotional state as she now realises she is actually good at it, but its tough. She hates to "fail" at anything. This leads to her not trying stuff she thinks she can't do, she has to be persuaded a lot. It led to problems at her last club as her coach would not work with her and didn't understand where she was coming from.

I have told her repeatedly its okay to fail. Failure is the first stage of success. If you never fail you are not trying hard enough because you are never stepping outside your comfort zone. Trying and failing is much better than never trying, and I bought her a pin with the mythbusters slogan on it " failure is always an option".

Things have got better as she has got older, and I always tell all my children - go out and do your best, then i9n my eyes you are a winner.

 

[munchkin3]

Sounds like there is pressure coming from somewhere.....probably the more invested parent? How old is she?
She needs to love the sport and enjoy it just for the sake of it. It's fun, she has friends there, it keeps her in shape, etc......perhaps some meditation and relaxation techniques would help this type of wound up child? I have a wound up non-gym kid.....he definitely has improved with age...
Also, I have found that the less our family focuses on gymnastics, the happier my DD is. Gymnastics is a big part of our family and the last one who wants to keep thinking about it after 4 hours of practice, is my gymmie!
When she's wound up on something, or upset about a skill, or a block the answer is usually- you are doing great, you'll get it when your ready, now let's not think about gymnastics for the rest of the day.......this actually gives my DD the ability to shut down the gymnastics chapter for the day. I have worked to get her to leave it in the gym and not take it home, but she is 11 so I listen in the car, and listen to who said what and then she did....and blah blah, no more than 15 minutes or so and that's it......
I don't like drama. It fuels negativity and idle thinking. I have always tried to take the scientific approach.....a mental block means the brain connections are not in place YET and you must go back a few steps and re introduce the skill to reinforce the connections in your brain........that's all.....nothing personal. The less personal you make it, the happier the kid is......
Maybe this girl is very competitive? Does she like to be the first to get the skill? Is she trying to please someone?
Bottom line, this girl needs to understand that the main obstacle she faces in gymnastics is negative thinking. If she can't learn to replace negative thought with useful, positive ones, she will go no where in gymnastics, or life for that matter.

 

[jjsmom]

Sounds like there is pressure coming from somewhere.....probably the more invested parent?
She needs to love the sport and enjoy it just for the sake of it. It's fun, she has friends there, it keeps her in shape, etc......perhaps some meditation and relaxation techniques would help this type of wound up child? I have a wound up non-gym kid.....he definitely has improved with age...
Also, I have found that the less our family focuses on gymnastics, the happier my DD is. Gymnastics is a big part of our family and the last one who wants to keep thinking about it after 4 hours of practice, is my gymmie!
When she's wound up on something, or upset about a skill, or a block the answer is usually- you are doing great, you'll get it when your ready, now let's not think about gymnastics for the rest of the day.......this actually gives my DD the ability to shut down the gymnastics chapter for the day. I have worked to get her to leave it in the gym and not take it home, but she is 11 so I listen in the car, and listen to who said what and then she did....and blah blah, no more than 15 minutes or so and that's it......
I don't like drama. It fuels negativity and idle thinking. I have always tried to take the scientific approach.....a mental block means the brain connections are not in place YET and you must go back a few steps and re introduce the skill to reinforce the connections in your brain........that's all.....nothing personal. The less personal you make it, the happier the kid is......
Maybe this girl is very competitive? Does she like to be the first to get the skill? Is she trying to please someone?
Bottom line, this girl needs to understand that the main obstacle she faces in gymnastics is negative thinking. If she can't learn to replace negative thought with useful, positive ones, she will go no where in gymnastics, or life for that matter.

My dd struggles with this and it is 100% her own belief...no pressure from us parents, just her own perfectionism. We've identified that she needs more balance in her life so that she doesn't feel that gymnastics is the end all be all so we've made a new rule that we don't talk about gymnastics at home. She gets that 20 minutes on the way to and from and that's it. Whenever she wants a break, we listen. Usually it's a morning here or there. And lastly, she's begun talking to a mental toughness coach. It's one thing to be physically talented but it means nothing if you don't have the mind for it. So that way her coach gets to coach, the mental toughness coach helps with the blocks and self talk, and I can just be a mom. Good luck!

 

[munchkin3]

My DD does the negative thing too.....we all do it! But she knows this does not help......complaining, whining, crying over spilled milk.......feeling it is fine, venting about it is totally fine....my job- hugs, kisses, I love you, maybe ice cream? (I try not to engage, but only listen.....this is the hardest part)
But now my daughter understands she is getting rid of the negative energy and thoughts, and moving on.......once we are done we are done with that emotion.......I can't tell you how often I use the phrase
Tomorrow is a new day!

 

[eucoach]

@munchkin3: She is competitive, yes, however she knows her place in her training group quite well. She always gets very (sincerely) excited when someone else gets a new skill - there's never even a hint of jealousy. On bars, beam and vault she is always one of the last to get her skills which doesn't seem to bother her. Floor is where the doubts really creep in and really weird blocks set in frequently. Curiously, this is the event where she learns much faster and exceeds her teammates in quickness and in the amplitude she gets when tumbling. Maybe she self-sabotages because she doesn't believe she deserves to be the best for once....I don't know.

I will tell the mom to try and find rules for when it is appropriate to talk about gym - the car rule seems to be a good one.

 

[munchkin3]

No! Self sabotage!!!! No, no.....not a single kid wants to 'not' do it....
If she is learning quicker than she could very well not be processing the skill completely. She may need more time with the basics and form and progressions. Maybe if you bring her into your world on how the skill is taught and how the brain takes it in, she can understand more what's happening to her.

 

[jjsmom]

@munchkin3: She is competitive, yes, however she knows her place in her training group quite well. She always gets very (sincerely) excited when someone else gets a new skill - there's never even a hint of jealousy. On bars, beam and vault she is always one of the last to get her skills which doesn't seem to bother her. Floor is where the doubts really creep in and really weird blocks set in frequently. Curiously, this is the event where she learns much faster and exceeds her teammates in quickness and in the amplitude she gets when tumbling. Maybe she self-sabotages because she doesn't believe she deserves to be the best for once....I don't know.

I will tell the mom to try and find rules for when it is appropriate to talk about gym - the car rule seems to be a good one.

It sounds to me like her success on floor has made her strive for perfection and the expectation to be the best in this event. She needs to learn that it's okay to not be perfect. The world won't come crashing down, and that relaxing and focusing on the process and not the end result will allow her the ability to grow as a gymnast. (She sounds just like my dd except we face this on EVERY event!)

 

[eucoach]

Self-sabotaging unconsciously I mean....

How often do you let your kids know they are allowed to quit if they are not happy anymore? The mom tells me "I always tell her she does not have to do it, she can quit if she is not happy anymore". I wonder if it's actually a good thing to repeat that again and again. I fear the girl is probably thinking about quitting because the mom might be happier that way....

 

[jjsmom]

Self-sabotaging unconsciously I mean....

How often do you let your kids know they are allowed to quit if they are not happy anymore? The mom tells me "I always tell her she does not have to do it, she can quit if she is not happy anymore". I wonder if it's actually a good thing to repeat that again and again. I fear the girl is probably thinking about quitting because the mom might be happier that way....

Our mental coach told us not to keep mentioning quitting, not because it isn't an option...my dd can stop any time she wants, but because if we keep repeating it, she might internalize it and think that WE think she isn't good enough to keep doing it. I let her know it's an option once, and then said if she ever has thoughts about what she wants to do to let me know but otherwise we will continue on as normal.

 

[munchkin3]

A friends DD went through this....she wanted to quit but she didn't know it.
She went through the motions and went to practice but always 'couldnt' do her skills.....she would blame this or that......she was there to socialize.
Dad was big on her having 'fun' and that she should be smiling during practice.....the problems arose in L7 at 12yo.
The dad (good friends of the family) would baby the DD. He would tell her it didn't matter how she was doing, and that she didn't have to do her skills....he would complain that the coaches were being mean to her.
I gave my friend my perspective. I thought that at her age and level, it's no longer about having 'fun' and that there are days she will not be smiling in practice. I think it's more of a commitment at that level and the DD must accept the good and bad of the commitment. Obviously, overall, she should be having more sucess(fun) than not.
The DD was not willing to make the necessary sacrifices and did retire....it took a few months for everything to come to light.
In this scenario, self sabotage may be at play. She is a child and does not know what she wants entirely. A child will resist change, and quitting for fear of the unknown. Here, the parents must open the doors to other sports and see if she wants an alternative. If she wants to stay and commit, then she must listen and follow her coaches instruction, and Mom and Dad need to extract themselves a bit more....
It sounds though she is at this age, 12ish?

 

[eucoach]

11.5, yes.

She definitely puts in the work...does all the conditioning, tries her hardest, etc.
It's a very strange situation. Wish me luck that I'll have a good conversation with the mom.

 

[LizzieLac]

Who brings up the gymnastics at home? That is also a telling sign. I believe that the parents really need to NOT bring it up. If the gymnast wants to talk that is fine. Pressure is brought to the situation with too much talking, generally, at least at my house. No talking away from the gym unless DD wants to tell me something and even then I try to get her not to complain too much. Don't feed into it.

Gymnastics training stays in the gym and I think that goes for the talking. Sports are as much emotional and mental and you need to "train" those aspects the right way too. My DD has made the most significant progress when we spoke the least about it.

I can't help but wonder if this girl's mother feeds into the self-doubt my engaging in the talk too much, example being the "I just want her to be happy" comments.

 

[LindyHopper]

Tomorrow is a new day!

Another one for the "gym sayings" thread.

 

[munchkin3]

We all talk about gymnastics with our gymmies when they have left.....even though I do my best to live up to my own words, it happens.....I certainly know when NOT to talk thoug......but at this age it is very important to try and remove ourselves from our kids sport.
11/12 is about the age where they begin to own it. Parents must be careful not to hinder the process of breaking away.
When my daughter tells me coach said this or that, or 'he doesn't understand why I'm scared' I tell her - it's her responsibility to communicate with her coach how she is feeling. She needs to develop the relationship without me as the middleman.
She must ask the coach if she can have a private word with him.....not during the rotation....explain herself. It's the only way to build that trust.....

 

[eucoach]

So...I talked to her parents today - both of them. They are both really sweet people. The girl has decided to quit. She came home from gym last Saturday super excited because she had such a great practice but she still wants to quit. They don't really know why either - it's a multitude of reasons. The thing is that she is very worried all the time - worried she's not good enough, that she's the worst gymnast of her group, etc. It's a very strange situation. On the one hand I support the decision because a girl her age should not be worried about something all the time to the point she is unhappy. On the other hand I feel gymnastics is not the problem..... Apparently she is doing gymnastsics non-stop at home....she also says she enjoys it.

She might still participate in our training camp this summer which is 4 weeks from now. Her parents also feel that ending on a high note (she always enjoyed the camps) would be a good thing. I really hope she will do that.

I do feel that it was not handled very well by her parents....but this is something I never had any influence on. I remember 2 years ago during a competition, her mother cried for her because the girl cried after she fell off bars. IMO this goes far beyond compassion - it's almost as if the mother's feelings are an extension of what the daughter feels.

@LizzieLac - yes I do feel that her mother feeds into the self-doubt - during our conversation I did not get the impression that she has that kind of self-awareness so I did not talk about it any further.

 

[LizzieLac]

@eucoach I really hope that the parents didn't encourage her to quit as a way to avoid the worrying and self-doubt. Supporting quitting is one thing...

Some kids that are like this will remove themselves from the situation that they think is causing the worry, when the reality is that some other situation will replace it or they have not really found a way of dealing and coping...

This sport is HARD and it can very frustrating, so I do hope they made the right choice.

 

[Flyaway]

That's too bad that she decided to quit. It does sound like there's underlying issues (anxiety, etc) that were probably not caused by gymnastics but perhaps were enhanced by it. Will her worry go away now that she's done? Hard to say but my guess would be that she'll find something else to worry about. Unfortunately some kids are just wired that way- it's the parents' responsibility to recognize that and give their kids the tools they need to work through it. If it were my child I would see gymnastics as the perfect set up to learn how to deal with personal expectations and feelings of falling short. But that's just me. I do wish this young girl the best!

 

[thefellowsmom]

I'm sorry to hear she is quitting. It does seem to me that in being so accommodating to her worry and always telling her it is ok if she wants to quit and she doesn't have to try to push through. My dd is a thinker. She tends to get up in her head a lot and her success in gymnastics has hinged on her learning to cope with that and push the bad stuff out and replace it with the good. We used a sports mental coach to accomplish this and she continues to do a lot of doc ali work. Her coaches have also learned when to push and when not to based on how she is mentally. Some days and times of year are better than others.

I have seen many quit for many different reasons over the years and the saddest ones to me are the ones where they are allowed to give up when things get hard. I think this is one of the most important lessons that gymnastics can teach, pushing past the anxiety to the other side and learning that just because you are anxious about something doesn't mean you can't push through to the other side and find success. I had to work through all this as an adult in my 30s and I often wonder if I had learned what my daughter is learning now, if I could have found even more success for myself in my sport or endeavors.

But, you can't save them all or teach them all or change any of them. Parents are going to parent how they see fit, and rightly so, but sometimes is it sad to see it go down. I always say that gymnastics is the life lesson of letting go and giving over for all involved... gymnast, parent and coach.

11/12 is about the age where they begin to own it. Parents must be careful not to hinder the process of breaking away.

Just had to add that dd just turned 12 and we are in the middle of this. All of a sudden she doesn't want to discuss every detail of her gymnastics, is taking ownership of it and is really driving hard. The independence and self-assurance she has now compared to a year ago is really amazing to watch. I am thankful that she is still willing to share some with me and am treading carefully as to help facilitate this move for her and not be overbearing or stifling. This is new to me as she always wanted my involvement in everything.

I'm not sure I am quite ready for the breaking away phase. Come back.....

 

[coachmolly]

You could very well be writing about a girl I coach, almost the exact same situation from the sounds of it. This little one (age 9) takes longer to learn some skills and has to work her butt off, but she LOVES gymnastics and wants to do well so badly and worries about falling behind the other girls (more on some events than others) and having new, younger girls join the team and surpass her. Parents are supportive and sincerely just want her to have fun and find confidence- this anxiety and self doubt is something that impacts her in other aspects of her life as well- and don't care about skills/level and are always reassuring her that she is doing just fine and not to compare herself. In her case, I think it's a good deal of self inflicted pressure- SHE wants to match up with the other girls and be successful in the same way she views her teammates as being successful. She misses the fact that she has grown in confidence tremendously over her time on the team, has improved her skills amazingly, and learned to compete confidently, because she sees her teammates learning new skills left and right and getting over the vault so much easier and all she sees is that, in those areas, she doesn't match up. I think a big part of it is just her personality, she is a perfectionist and wants to do her best and not come across as a failure or inadequate. This has some benefits as well- she works harder than many of her teammates, perfects little details her teammates totally miss, and has immense amounts of determination. But it's always a battle to help her see the good things and the growth.
So I don't really have answers, I don't know if I'm doing all the right things, but I just constantly work to build her up. To point out the things she does well, the ways she has grown as a gymnast and the ways she is an asset to the team. I try to put her in positions where she can be successful as much as possible to build a sort of confidence bank, that way when she comes up against a challenging skill she has something to cash in on.
I hate to hear that your gymnast has decided to quit, but as someone who struggled immensely with anxiety throughout childhood, sometimes all of those internal pressures can all just too much and you can't imagine any other way forward. Though I do hope she is getting the support she needs if this is something that happens in other areas of her life, because while leaving gymnastics might put a bandaid on the current anxiety, it's bound to come up again and developing skills to cope is better done sooner than later.