WAG Cast requirements

[htimcj]

So I am confused again! Seems to be a constant state since DD moved to optionals! So the COP states in the general bars section that all cast need to go to vertical but when you look at the specific requirements for level 6 and level 7 it specifically states for level 6 1 cast min of horizontal and for level 7 one cast min 45 degrees. So which is it? Vertical, horizontal, or 45?

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Vertical. Anything less than that will get a deduction.

 

[wallflower]

The way I understand it is that you must hit the required minimum to get credit for it, but then it will be deducted for not being to handstand.

So lets say your DD competes level 7. If she casted to horizontal she would not get credit. If she casted to 45 she would get credit, but be deducted for not hitting handstand.

 

[htimcj]

OK. I see now. It seemed so contradictory at first. So basically as close to vertical at all times

 

[gymmomtoo]

What wallflower said is what I believe too

 

[twisting007bigflip]

Yes. They must cast to the minimum requirement to avoid the .5 deduction for not meeting the special requirement. They must cast to vertical to avoid the .5 deduction for missing the special requirement and the .3 (I think it's .3) for missing vertical...so potentially .8 deduction if they don't meet the Special requirement. (Because not meeting the special requirement also means they fail to make vertical.) double whammy.

And I can't remember off the top of my head the deductions for missing vertical. I'm thinking is "up to .3" depending on the angle from vertical.....and that's per cast. If they have 2 casts in the routine, that's 2x the big deductions. This is why level 6 bars is NOT easier than Level 5 bars IMO...

 

[htimcj]

It was the cast heights that were killing dd last year in old l6. She finally got them but it was painful for awhile! I believe the deductions for not to vertical are none if it is 10 degrees or less, 0.05 if it up to 20 - 10 degrees of vertical, 0.1 if it is between 30 and 20 degrees, 0.15-0.2 if it is between 45 and 30. After that you lose the value part and loose an additional 0.25-0.3.

It still seems contradictory to state that you don't have to reach vertical and yet you will be penalized if you don't reach it.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

It still seems contradictory to state that you don't have to reach vertical and yet you will be penalized if you don't reach it.

Exactly. I was super annoyed when i realized this. They don't state it in the requirements because it's already stated in the code. Guess they figure if coaches aren't reading the code then the joke's on them.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Deduction, but met the requirement.

 

[gymgal]

It still seems contradictory to state that you don't have to reach vertical and yet you will be penalized if you don't reach it.

you are confusing start value with deductions. Each optional level has a set of special requirements that must be met for a 10.0 start value in each event. one of the special requirements for bars that you must cast to the minimal angle at least once in the routine. so, if you can't hit the minimal angle, you will start with a 9.5. This can only be taken once in the routine for the cast requirement. In addition, you will get the normal deductions for not hitting vertical for *each* cast that you attempt. I believe that is up to 0.3 for each cast, depending on the actual angle achieved each time.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Think of it like other execution deductions. If a salto is a requirement, a gymnast could do a really low flip and still get credit for the requirement, but will get hammered with execution deductions for height, dynamics, etc. If a gymnasts casts to 3/4(level 7), she will get credit for the requirement, but is going to get amplitude deductions for the height of the cast.

 

[htimcj]

So could you take out all casts (ok probably not possible but hypothetically) have a start value of 9.5 and then not do a single cast and then get dinged for having casts not vertical? I notice the cast to squat on does not have to be vertical.

 

[twisting007bigflip]

So could you take out all casts (ok probably not possible but hypothetically) have a start value of 9.5 and then not do a single cast and then get dinged for having casts not vertical? I notice the cast to squat on does not have to be vertical.

This hypothetical bar routine is making me curious... trying to visualize a free hip without a cast.

 

[gymgal]

So could you take out all casts (ok probably not possible but hypothetically) have a start value of 9.5 and then not do a single cast and then get dinged for having casts not vertical? I notice the cast to squat on does not have to be vertical.

I believe that would be correct, though you could not meet the other requirements for As, Bs, and the SRs without the casts. Trust me, if you could, they're would be coaches somewhere doing it....

Btw, this happens sometimes, where a coach chooses to delete a SR from the routine, take the lower start value, but does not take the extra deductions for a poorly executed skill. Particularly with united gymnasts just coming back to competition. Sometime, the gymnast will end up with more deductions doing the skill than omitting it, at least in L7. In L8, the judges would also take pints for not being up to the expected level.

 

[htimcj]

This hypothetical bar routine is making me curious... trying to visualize a free hip without a cast.

LOL. I was trying to picture a giant with a cast but was thinking well maybe....

 

[wandrewsjr]

How 'bout - kip(A), squat on(A), uprise(B?), clear hip(B), giant(B), giant(B), flyaway(A)

 

[htimcj]

That seems to work but can you do a giant without first going into a cast? You know... jump to high bar kip...fling yourself up to start the giant. Isn't the fling considered a cast?

 

[gymgal]

You can do a back hip circle from an uprise, but I am thinking it would be really hard to do a credible free hip from one. Do you have a gymnast who does this? Would love to see it. Dd loves uprises.

As for giants without a cast, yes, it is possible. Dd did a cast (3/4 to hs, depending on the day)freehip hs, giant, giant, flyaway on the highbar as a L7. But, as you see, the cast starts of the momentum into the free hip, which gives power for the giants

 

[wandrewsjr]

We don't, but there is a coach in my area that loves them and trains them, so have seen his level 8's do this routine as their high bar second half(with pirouette on low).

 

[gymgal]

We don't, but there is a coach in my area that loves them and trains them, so have seen his level 8's do this routine as their high bar second half(with pirouette on low).

Do their clearhips get to hs (or close)?

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