MAG Age divisions vs. levels

[samsmama]

I think all kids are different. My son is hyper-focused on scoring, and knows the value of every bonus and deduction for every event. I'm the one who is still trying to learn. It's so different from my (admittedly limited) gymnastics experience. I don't think he'd be happy getting a medal if he didn't feel he scored his best. I just hope he has fun and does his best possible routines. If he comes out of this first meet just as excited for the next one (which is just a week afterward), that will be a success in my mind.

 

[profmom]

Just wait til he gets closer to optionals and it's all "Is this a B? Is this a C? Can this connect to that?" until you feel like your head is going to explode and you tell him "THIS IS WHY I PAY SOMEONE TO COACH YOU."

 

[samsmama]

Just wait til he gets closer to optionals and it's all "Is this a B? Is this a C? Can this connect to that?" until you feel like your head is going to explode and you tell him "THIS IS WHY I PAY SOMEONE TO COACH YOU."

Oh I can't wait! DS is a very reserved kid, so when he first started working with this coach it took awhile before he was comfortable enough to ask questions. Instead, he would ask me to ask the coach. I finally had to tell him I wouldn't be the go-between and he needed to develop the relationship with the coach himself. Now they are pretty close, so the coach gets most of DS's endless questions, thankfully! Fortunately he is very patient... he is a good match for DS in lots of ways.

 

[ZJsMom]

It's been a while, but my memory is our state did achievement only, not placements for level 4 boys. Regardless of what this meet does for awards, I would encourage your ds to focus on something other than placements. Really he can't control how many kids are in his age group, whether some of them are 2nd or even 3rd year level fours, how many hours other teams train etc. I would try to have him set goals over things he can control, hit 6 for 6, hold all his holds, stick landings, etc, then celebrate his achieving his goals.

 

[SeaActually]

It's been a while, but my memory is our state did achievement only, not placements for level 4 boys. Regardless of what this meet does for awards, I would encourage your ds to focus on something other than placements. Really he can't control how many kids are in his age group, whether some of them are 2nd or even 3rd year level fours, how many hours other teams train etc. I would try to have him set goals over things he can control, hit 6 for 6, hold all his holds, stick landings, etc, then celebrate his achieving his goals.

So true!!

 

[samsmama]

Definitely great advice, ZJsMom. Neither of us care much about placements. I was asking about the divisions more to let him know what to expect than because I want him to medal.

 

[gymdog]

In VA, there will be placement awards at this level.

 

[alongfortheride]

Some level 4's are amazingly good. I realized after one season in gymnastics, that most of them are 2nd year Level 4's (the really awesome ones). There are a few just simply talented great first-year level 4's, although I would bet they had started gymnastics at a young age. I watched it play out this year. An 8 year old from our gym decided to repeat level 4 rather than moving up to Level 5. He gets tons of medals and AA medals on every apparatus at every event. My 7 year old moved up to Level 5, and . . let's just say. . it's a learning year, not a "medal winning year". LOL . I do sometimes wonder how great his season would have been if he had stayed a level 4.

I think in our region (just my opinion) they seem to go out further in placements for level 4 than level 5. But that could be just my observation so far. . .and maybe not true?

All that to say, this year I am very much realizing the value of teaching my son to compete against himself, try to do better each time, rather than worrying about how many medals he gets. I think it's actually been good for him, because he doesn't expect it at every (or any?) meet now. . .it's more about working on the skills.

 

[samsmama]

Interesting observations... does your son regret moving up when he sees the other boy doing so well?

I am curious (not judging!) about why there are so many Level 4s who repeat. I can see if the boy had a tough season or was still working on bonus skills or something like that. But if it's just to be the "best" for a season and get lots of medals, that doesn't make as much sense to me. I guess it helps the boy's confidence?

DS has all his bonuses except ROBHS (and he is close, so he is hoping by the last meet he'll have it) and his coach's rule is that if they have 90% of their bonuses, they move up. He has already told me DS will compete Level 5 next season, and that's what DS wants too, so I think unless he just has an awful season this year, that much is settled at least.

I would have no problem with DS repeating if he needed to and I am sure he will at some point. One very talented boy on the team repeated Level 5 and it looks like he may repeat 6 too because he took some time off when his family moved. It just seems like it would be more fun to get out of Level 4 first! I think DS would be miserable doing these same routines for another year and I can't say I'd be excited about watching them again.

 

[alongfortheride]

@samsmama He has never said he wishes he were back in Level 4, or that he would rather be in Level 4, so I don't know. At the same time, he definitely knows his friend is getting lots of medals competing in Level 4 this year. To some degree I think it evens out. I believe next year the other boy will move up to Level 5, and will be a 9 year old Level 5, which is a pretty competitive age group, so it will be harder for him to medal. However, the other boy does have a lot of the Level 5 skills already, but is not competing the routines.

Also, I have to agree about watching the Level 4 routines again! HA! So boring. Although I am already doing that because at every competition so far in our region, they have put the youngest level 5's with the Level 4's, which is really annoying. Why? Because my son watches all Level 4's go, and then has to refocus to his Level 5 routine. As a little guy, that can be tough when he spent all last season doing Level 4. In the last competition, he started to do the Level 4 routine on one of the apparatus because he got confused after watching all the Level 4's go first. I can't wait until we actually have a competition where he is with the rest of his Level 5 teammates, which has not happened yet. I have to say, that is one thing my son has been disappointed with-- being separated from the entire rest of the Level 5 team (that he practices with) in competition, due to his age.

I'm guessing my son will repeat Level 5. To me, that makes more sense than competing Level 4. Unless it's just to give your kid the confidence of winning a lot of medals. But then, that seems like it would be a let-down if they moved up to Level 5 and got none after sweeping Level 4 the year before.

 

[sce]

I am curious (not judging!) about why there are so many Level 4s who repeat. I can see if the boy had a tough season or was still working on bonus skills or something like that. But if it's just to be the "best" for a season and get lots of medals, that doesn't make as much sense to me. I guess it helps the boy's confidence?

At our gym, repeating level 4 was more about not being ready for the level 5 skills. Our team is small though, so can't say the majority does either repeat or move-up.

 

[gracyomalley]

For some kids repeating to "win" keeps them in a sport or activity, and with the boys system of bonuses, this can be a good thing long term, esp. with younger kids, although L4 is the VERY basics...

DS younger was barely 6 when he first competed (old L4) and did 2 years there, 2 years at L5 and will likely do 2 years of L6 - but will be able to add skills as he goes. He is a middle of the pack gymnast, with a medal here and there in floor, Pbars or pommel. He is smack in the toughest age group competitionwise and has a summer birthday so often competes against boys almost 2 years older than he. He has fun and stays healthy. Its all good. I'm in no hurry for him to push ahead - I saw what happened to his sister who moved very fast until she hit L8 skills and puberty - and also with his older brother who did 3 years of L5 (only 2 months of L4 as he started gym at almost 11 and coach wanted to get him out of the basics...) then skipped L6 and is working some L8-9 skills this year while competing L7. Each kid has their own trajectory, and there are pluses and minuses to all. Each kid will grow and change, get injured, lose a good coach (or 3), etc.

L4 is for fun. L5 is for fun with focus. L6 is getting tougher and some kids start to "fall out". It just keeps getting tougher - the star L7 when my boys started is now a L9 - 4 years later, and although still an amazing gymnast, struggles with whether he wants to quit on a daily basis - still Nationally rank, mind you.

Whatever keeps a kid age-appropriately focused on the sport and enjoying it is the right choice move up or not. Its pretty important to get them to stop thinking about the placements as the end all be all early on - as those motivators will come and go. A winning repeat L4 may have needed maturation time, or not want to do longer practice hours, or be afraid of a new skill, etc...you never know.

 

[profmom]

Different gyms have different practices, and there's one gym in our state that is notorious for holding kids at L4 and L5 for years until they age up to L8. The owner wants championship banners. I don't think there's anything wrong with working on foundational skills, and really the meets are such a small proportion of what happens in gymnastics that I don't have a big stake in what routines a kid does for the judges. The key is what they are working on and whether it's developmentally appropriate. The gym mentioned above does very well at the compulsory levels but not so well with optionals -- the polishing seems to take place at the expense of learning new skills or building blocks for optional skills.

DS did a second year at L5 that probably wasn't strictly necessary, but during that year, he really worked hard to improve his technique on core skills, and it has unquestionably benefited him. The gym almost never repeats the L4s unless they have to because of age (we have two or three second-year L4s who started on team last season and missed the first meet because they weren't yet 6). L5, though, is often a 2 year deal, and L6 is also mostly 2 years before the jump to optionals. If all goes really well for him this year, DS will move to either L7 or L8 next year and is working on things now that he should be able to get cleaned up enough to put in those routines (well . . . we won't talk about floor, LOL!).

Winning can certainly build confidence, but it also builds expectations. I think a lot of whether it's a positive or negative is in how the child, his coach, and his parents frame it for him.

 

[curlymop]

Some level 4's are amazingly good. I realized after one season in gymnastics, that most of them are 2nd year Level 4's (the really awesome ones). There are a few just simply talented great first-year level 4's, although I would bet they had started gymnastics at a young age. I watched it play out this year. An 8 year old from our gym decided to repeat level 4 rather than moving up to Level 5. He gets tons of medals and AA medals on every apparatus at every event. My 7 year old moved up to Level 5, and . . let's just say. . it's a learning year, not a "medal winning year". LOL . I do sometimes wonder how great his season would have been if he had stayed a level 4.

I think in our region (just my opinion) they seem to go out further in placements for level 4 than level 5. But that could be just my observation so far. . .and maybe not true?

All that to say, this year I am very much realizing the value of teaching my son to compete against himself, try to do better each time, rather than worrying about how many medals he gets. I think it's actually been good for him, because he doesn't expect it at every (or any?) meet now. . .it's more about working on the skills.

My 7yo is in a similar position. I lobbied hard to keep him at L4 for another year, but the coaches felt he was ready, and he really wanted to move up. He has won a couple of medals on individual events, so he's been happy enough with that. But I still worry that it's too much stress and not enough fun for him. He'll definitely repeat L5 next year, and due to his late fall birthday, he'll compete as a 7 year old again.

 

[samsmama]

So to update and add some additional info to the thread for other newbies in the future, here's how it ended up.

They did NOT split up the 7-8 year old Level 4s as they did last year, so DS had 67 boys in his division. He had an awesome first meet -- he did his best possible routines, got the highest all-around score on his team be quite a few points, and qualified for states. Yay!

But, they only went out 8 places on awards so he narrowly missed medals on rings, parallel bars, floor, and AA. So he is very disappointed, especially because his teammates in the much smaller divisions (6 year olds and 11+) got medals even though DS scored higher. He is pleased with his scores but still sad.

He seems fired up to do better at next week's meet, so that's good. Man, these meets are stressful for parents! I can't believe we have to do it all again next Sunday.

 

[Quadqueen]

Yup, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Even though they don't have huge groups for awards like that for girls, girls in the toughest age groups (often the youngest for their level, especially when they get to optionals) have to deal with this all the time - kids in less competitive age groups scoring lower but placing much higher. All you can do is stress individual goals/improvements and not placements. And know it does not matter in the long run.

Glad your son had a good meet!

 

[profmom]

Glad he did so well!

 

[SeaActually]

So to update and add some additional info to the thread for other newbies in the future, here's how it ended up.

They did NOT split up the 7-8 year old Level 4s as they did last year, so DS had 67 boys in his division. He had an awesome first meet -- he did his best possible routines, got the highest all-around score on his team be quite a few points, and qualified for states. Yay!

But, they only went out 8 places on awards so he narrowly missed medals on rings, parallel bars, floor, and AA. So he is very disappointed, especially because his teammates in the much smaller divisions (6 year olds and 11+) got medals even though DS scored higher. He is pleased with his scores but still sad.

He seems fired up to do better at next week's meet, so that's good. Man, these meets are stressful for parents! I can't believe we have to do it all again next Sunday.

WOW 67! I have never seen more than 15 girls in an age group. Glad to hear he did well.

 

[skschlag]

Oh for the boys, that can be the norm. At level 5, D frequently had 60-80 in his age group at the larger meets. Sigh. It was tough.

 

[gracyomalley]

On the other hand, as they move up you often have the opposite problem - Our first 3 meets are so small in upper levels that Level 6-10 will all compete together! By then, they realize that winning when you are one of only 3 kids in your age group is meaningless! (This is probably a bigger problem in our neck of the woods).

Sounds like he did great -