Can you really tell who may be successful at age 5?

[Sarah'sMom]

Hi. My daughter is 6 and she started preteam earlier this summer. We had her taking recreational classes at two different gyms - each had different teaching styles, which we found helpful. One invited her for pre-team and one did not.

At the one that did not invite her, I was given the distinct impression that if she was not selected for pre-team by 5 years old that she would never be on a team in that gym. I actually called and asked informally for information about pre-team and was told that they looked for certain things that they could not identify to me and that what skills a child could or could not do had little to do with it. But then into the conversation, I was told that parent commitment, of course, played an important factor. After that when asked for our names, I kindly refused and ended the conversation. It left me with this feeling as if we were at a yearling sale, inspecting a horse's hoofs, and teeth, etc. I also had the impression (and it was confirmed informally for me by someone from the gym) that if my daughter hadn't been invited to pre-team early, her opportunities at that gym were nil.

Also, interestingly, with respect to this same gym, a coworker who's daughter is a year older than mine told me that her daughter was pre-team and she was dropped because she grew too tall for their liking.

Anyway, we, of course, went with the gym that invited my daughter and she's doing pretty well. But I was curious as to what others thought about this kind of approach by the gym. I can understand being selective, but don't some girls drop out along the way? Wouldn't you want to leave the door open for young stars that might bloom a year or two later?

Just curious......afterall it changes nothing for us.

 

[mariposa]

I don't think that you can. When my daughter was 5, I could not have guessed she would have blossomed into the beautiful gymnast she is now. I had seen young talented 4/5 year olds and my kid certainly wasn't one of them!!

 

[gymnastjess]

i think what the gym is looking for in pre-team girls is ability to stay focussed and the parents and gymnasts commitment. although at 5 it is very hard to stay foccused i think that is what identifys a gymnast from the others at that age is being focussed and being a quick learner also things like pointed toes and doing all their conditioning may come into it. but that is true i think that gym is being very unfair to girls of a bit older age :/ congratz to your lil gymmie on making pre-team all the best

 

[Galadriel]

our gym takes them in age 4 - 6 preteam girls and 5 - 7 boys as a general rule.
There is some flexibility.
They have occasionally taken an older child who shows exceptional potential in rec classes - eg up to 9 years. They obviously take longer to catch up, but one boy taken in was the best by far for his age in the region at age 14 after being taken in as a beginner at aged 9.

 

[cathiann]

I think the one gym is missing out on a lot of good gymnasts if they're ignoring everyone who blossoms in gymnastics after the age of 5.

 

[Bobby]

On one hand I know in my country it's believed you CAN usually tell at age 5. And the results (tiny poulation doing well internationally over quite a period of time) do suggest there must be something to it.
On the other hand, there really does seem to be a self-fulfilling aspect to the way that girls are selected and trained in this sport.
Eg: Aha little miss X won state L6 champion and miss Y still hasn't gotten all her L5 skills - we were right all along!!! ... it seems a common refrain ... But failing to acknowledge little miss y has struggled along with half the gym hours and a whole lot less attention and encouragement. Of course the little miss X's are going to do better on the whole.
I do find it disappointing that enthusiastic girls aren't given the opportunity to train and develop into the best gymnast they can become, regardless of whether they're likely to be contenders to reach the upper levels, etc.
I'm not talking about elite programs that get government funding - of course that would be different. But for the average gym considering who to "allow" to train more frequently/longer .... if a girl has the enthusiasm and dedication, and their parents have the commitment and willingness to pay the same $s ..... can anyone help me out with a rationale that justifies the discrepancy that doesn't sound discriminatory?

 

[Kiwi]

At our gym some of the young girls are selected for the 'A' stream which is called the 'international development program'. The rec girls who do well at novice comps may be selected for the 'B' stream. The 'A' stream have three coaches and train much longer hours than the 'B' stream. The 'B' stream girls are generally between 5 and 7 when selected, I think the 'A' stream girls may be a little younger. I don't know everything they are looking for in their 'A' stream selections, but I'm sure body type is part of it. Generally they seem to choose girls who are not tall, with wide shoulders and slim hips. A friend of mine whose daughter was doing rec tumbling told me they approached her about her daughter possibly joining their 'A' stream program, I guess her daughter was good at tumbling but she believed it was also because her daughter was very small for her age.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

I am happy to say that our gym has a completely open mind regardless of age. If you want to work hard and commit, then they are happy to have them.

 

[10.0]

They may very well be able to tell if a child would be a good fit for team as far as strenght, flexibilty, listening ability, being able to focus, and of course the parents willing to commit their time and money but no one can predict long term sucess and if they tell you they can they are full of it. Even the most talented 5 year olds quit after a year on team because they see their friends doing other activities they would like to try, or they grow a bunch, or get hurt, or get burned out on competetions, or the skills get too hard especially the ones who were super talents in the start may struggle worse when they hit a road block since everything came so easy before. There are just so many factors that predict sucess at anything that I think you would have just as much luck pulling out the old magic 8 ball and giving it a whirl.

 

[bogwoppit]

What coaches can tell is that a small child may have the POTENTIAL to be a great gymnast. Energetic, follows instruction, fearless, a certain body type etc etc.

But what is one coaches perfect pre teamer may not be the same child in another gym.

More than that, just having potential doesn't mean they will be a great gymnast, many kid who could be amazing never continue in the sport for so many reasons.

In our gym any child who wants to try, and can stick to the basic rules, is given a chance to try.

 

[Galadriel]

I used to 'scout' on behalf of our club at local primary schools as i had a job that took me to them any way.
The schools were happy to oblige.
We were trying to get them young (about age 4 - 5) before the soccer bug and other sports picked them up.
The children thought it was a sport session and just for fun.
We had them race each other across the playground, broad jump, vertical jump, can they touch their toes, can they do a chin up, can they (or will they try!) climb a rope.
Any one who seemed to have potential got a letter home to say they had been identified as potentially being good at gymnastics, and an invite to come to a free session at the local gym, and the coach then decided whether to ask them to try a month of pre team, 4 hours a week (again for free) before asking to join.
Obviously not everyone was interested who was asked, but it did help.

 

[Aussie_coach]

In Australia we choose our International gymnasts at about age 5. If not selected at this young age to head into the International development program they go into the regular levels stream and will not have a chance to work towards international level competition.

It is the body type we look at very much at that age, you can tell in a child that young if they will have the right body for gymnastics because that body type is so specific. However, we are talking international level gymnastics. It does not seem appropriate for a competitive team to exclude anyone who doesn't fit the elite body type mould.

 

[emorymom]

But then into the conversation, I was told that parent commitment, of course, played an important factor.

I wonder does this mean they pull the credit report, make sure that one parent stays home and the other has a six figure income? LOL

FWIW when it comes to "regular gymnastics" which is all most of us are concerned with, a gym's placement of a child can seem to vary widely. Some of it is philosophy and some of it is how to break up the groups in their population.

See if you can follow this:

When DD was almost 5 she was passed up for 1-hour preteamish classes at Gym 1. So she moved to Gym 2 for 1 hour a week of this pre-pre-team (but still some rec at Gym 1). A few months later she was promoted to 3-hour preteam at Gym 2. At which point I gave notice at Gym 1 and they offered her the pre-preteam track (but DD loved the longer hours and didn't want to be limited to 2 or 3, 1-hour classes). So we did not go back to Gym 1.

Soon thereafter I burned out of the distance to Gym 2 in rush hour, and started transitioning her to 3-hour preteam at Gym 3 where she was to do one more year and then do Level 2 team for Gym 3 in 2010-11. Then Gym 3 got a little unstable, and I tried her out at Gym 4 and she did Level 2 a year early. This year she is repeating Level 2 at Gym 4. But DS's gym (Gym 5) offered her a position this past spring/summer on their Level 3 team. [The nearby gyms all compete these lower levels -- Gym 2 is the only one that starts at Level 4.]

So here is how different the anticipated plans were for the same child.
If DD had stayed at Gym 1, she would be on the preteam this year and Level 2 team in 2011-12 at age 8.
If DD had stayed at Gym 2, she would probably be on a 5-hour preteam this year and I have no idea.
If DD had stayed at Gym 3, she would be on the Level 2 team in 2010-11 at age 7.
If DD was at Gym 5, she would be on the Level 3 team in 2010-11 at age 7.
DD is at Gym 4 and is a "second year L2" at age 7. I believe she is coming along fine to move to L3 next year.

What is most important to me is that my child is having fun and working hard and my other sibling is not negatively impacted by a difficult commute. I don't believe any of the people above are "wrong." You can't predict how a particular situation will affect a particular child. And no, I don't believe you can tell at age 5 if a child will be able to compete optionals except to hammer their parents' finances. But as to elite, maybe you can.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

Emerymom-then they would also have to go further and see if they are paying for anyone's college expenses! LOL
Dad makes a six figure income and I stay home. My 9 year old son asked me if we were poor because I am always making him budget his money and not buying him anything that he doesn't need. Having 5 kids eats up money fast even without gymnastics.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

Aussie coach- Can you please be more specific about what body type you are looking for for your 4-5 year old gymmies?

 

[Blazing15]

Ohhh I like this post. I am looking forward to reading everyone's replies.

Also just wanted to State remember that Shawn Johnson at her first gym they said she didn't have what it took and look at her now. She switched gyms and is an olympian.

 

[lilgymmie7]

I think that to some degree you can tell if a 5 year old is destined to greatness in gymnastics, but it goes far beyond body type and the factor that the moon and stars must def. be alligned to not interfere with future training. However, kids are so determined now adays with respect to athletics. A 12 year old can come into the sport and knock everyone's socks off where as a predestined 5 year old may realize gym is not for her/him. Gyms that look at body type are bringing up OLD gymnastics and we do not want to back track in that respect!

 

[momof5]

It is very frustrasting to be a parent when straight answers aren't given. My DD tried out for team at her old gym for 2 years. After she didn't make the team the 2nd year I tried to get answers from them but was given no clear reason why my DD did not earn a spot on team when she had all but two level 4 skills and girls with less skills earned their spot on team. Two years ago in October we switched gyms and they took a look at her and offered her a spot on the level 4 team. Now just two years later she is getting ready to compete level 7. I still don't know why they didn't want her, but they lost out. She is so determined and passionate about her gymnastics and we are always told that she is the hardest working gymnast at her gym.

 

[gymcoach34]

I coached one of the current world team members from preteam -L8. She switched gyms whan I moved away. She could not even walk a straight line from ages 5-7ish, but was strong as a bull and worked really hard, even at a young age. I now give (almost) every kid a chance at preteam-NO ONE could have predicted this kids success- awkward, turned in feet, clumsy, etc! Its unbelieveable really! My perspective has totally changed!

I have also coached kids who were young phenoms-but either burned out or had fears, or just ended up liking soccer better. You never know who is going to succeed! I say just enjoy the process where you are now, and good luck to your DD on preteam!

 

[emorymom]

Coaches should look hard at the kids who love it year after year even though they suck big time.