WAG Does a great coach trump an established good program?

[COz]

We are almost certainly about to change gyms.

My child is 5, in an um, elite track I guess program (IDP) and currently trains 12 hours a week. There is a good chance that she will end up picking ballet over gymnastics when it becomes impossible to do both.

The gym choices are:
A) Following the current head coach to a much smaller gym that is part of a school. The girls there are much much older, do a lot less hours and clearly have not had the same amount of time on conditioning etc. (even the older ones). They do not Offer IDP but she would get coaching time with this coach that is very experienced and we are very happy with. She would train less hours, but not by too much. The facilities are kind of adequate, but only just. No pit.
B) A well established program that produces good gymnasts, but where she would not have coaching from the more senior coaches and would just be one of the crowd. They would offer less flexibility and train more hours and this might hasten the time tabling clashes.
C) Stay put. But I think they're going to have trouble keeping coaches and we'd be looking again shortly anyway.

Do you think that coaching by a great coach is worth it in this situation?

 

[Faith]

Can you stay put, then move to your great coach if it doesn't work out?

I suppose it depends on how realistic you think the elite thing is, whether she might burn out, switch to dance, or get kicked off (which I understand the idp does, take loads of littlest then pass them back to ndp if they don't keep up?)

This is what I hate about such early selection for elite, it's too much too young and rules out many choices.

I suppose if you do stay elite track, ballet will still be there in 5 years. She can't go the other way.

I did move mine from an hpc with great facilities, high level coaches and elite history, to a gym with no facilities and low hours. It's worked great for us, as she can keep up with her other activity, plus she gets far more opportunity to compete as she's not one of many. But, for us, the elite track thing wasn't going to happen as very, very few (less than one per year per elite club).

 

[COz]

Can you stay put, then move to your great coach if it doesn't work out?

The program wasn't very good before this coach came (just before we joined) and she brought a bunch of good coaches with her. I think it's unrealistic to think they will stay and they are already short staffed. At least one of them will also be coaching at the new place.

I suppose it depends on how realistic you think the elite thing is, whether she might burn out, switch to dance, or get kicked off (which I understand the idp does, take loads of littlest then pass them back to ndp if they don't keep up?)

She isn't international material, but I'd say she'd last in the program at least another 4 or 5 years. By which point ballet and gymnastics schedules would well and truly be clashing.

I suppose if you do stay elite track, ballet will still be there in 5 years. She can't go the other way.

Only just. There's a lot they're expected to be able to do by 10, they're almost on point.

I did move mine from an hpc with great facilities, high level coaches and elite history, to a gym with no facilities and low hours. It's worked great for us, as she can keep up with her other activity, plus she gets far more opportunity to compete as she's not one of many. But, for us, the elite track thing wasn't going to happen as very, very few (less than one per year per elite club).

She wants to keep as many hours as possible. Would do it every day if she could, so it's not a swap for less hours, but she'll be training with people who aren't as committed as her. Is that bad? I don't know.

 

[Jenny]

Go with the coach. Her focus is already not 100% gymnastics. The coach she is happy with will be able to move her along just fine. The coaches experience will overcome the hours and facility deficit.

Sounds like she might get a lot of attention too which would be fantastic. And the coach might push through improvements to the facility and the 'seriousness' of the other girls. She will also attract other talented girls to the program.

If you aren't happy with the way things are going in a year move the the higher hours IDP place then.

 

[Jenny]

And just bear in mind that if she pursues 2 activities to a high level at a young age then the combined hours/ focus/ training will lead to earlier/ increased likelihood of burning out and injury.

I have seen that happen several times. Parents try and keep 2 or more elite path activities on the go for too long. Trying to enable the child to have the option to chose as long as possible. It can backfire. No point going after mega hours (whatever a 5 year old thinks) if you know she isn't long term elite potential. Less hours better for now and will allow her to continue her dance.

 

[B.Gold]

My knee jerk reaction initially was...."if possible, always follow the great coaching that your DD responds to." But....no pit?? :-\

 

[COz]

And just bear in mind that if she pursues 2 activities to a high level at a young age then the combined hours/ focus/ training will lead to earlier/ increased likelihood of burning out and injury.

I have seen that happen several times. Parents try and keep 2 or more elite path activities on the go for too long. Trying to enable the child to have the option to chose as long as possible. It can backfire. No point going after mega hours (whatever a 5 year old thinks) if you know she isn't long term elite potential. Less hours better for now and will allow her to continue her dance.

Good point. Thank you.
She is pretty much at the limit of hours that I am comfortable with at this age. Our closest other IDP program is a lot more hours at this level (!) and I won't consider it.

My knee jerk reaction initially was...."if possible, always follow the great coaching that your DD responds to." But....no pit?? :-\

Coach has a plan to address that, *phew*!

 

[Ex member]

We are almost certainly about to change gyms.

My child is 5, in an um, elite track I guess program (IDP) and currently trains 12 hours a week. There is a good chance that she will end up picking ballet over gymnastics when it becomes impossible to do both.

The gym choices are:
A) Following the current head coach to a much smaller gym that is part of a school. The girls there are much much older, do a lot less hours and clearly have not had the same amount of time on conditioning etc. (even the older ones). They do not Offer IDP but she would get coaching time with this coach that is very experienced and we are very happy with. She would train less hours, but not by too much. The facilities are kind of adequate, but only just. No pit.
B) A well established program that produces good gymnasts, but where she would not have coaching from the more senior coaches and would just be one of the crowd. They would offer less flexibility and train more hours and this might hasten the time tabling clashes.
C) Stay put. But I think they're going to have trouble keeping coaches and we'd be looking again shortly anyway.

Do you think that coaching by a great coach is worth it in this situation?

What do your instincts say? I would be inclined to follow the coach (based on the info you put on here)

Can you stay put, then move to your great coach if it doesn't work out?

I suppose it depends on how realistic you think the elite thing is, whether she might burn out, switch to dance, or get kicked off (which I understand the idp does, take loads of littlest then pass them back to ndp if they don't keep up?)

This is what I hate about such early selection for elite, it's too much too young and rules out many choices.

I suppose if you do stay elite track, ballet will still be there in 5 years. She can't go the other way.

I did move mine from an hpc with great facilities, high level coaches and elite history, to a gym with no facilities and low hours. It's worked great for us, as she can keep up with her other activity, plus she gets far more opportunity to compete as she's not one of many. But, for us, the elite track thing wasn't going to happen as very, very few (less than one per year per elite club).[/QUOTE

I am not a big fan of the Uk elite track either, hardly anyone gets chosen and the ones that do mostly quit within a year or two unless the parent of said child is a coach (even then that doesn't mean anything), we had around 8 young girls (4-7) in a development group that was going down the elite pathway and it seems only 5 still are in the group, the others have quit, only two remain from 18 months a go and the other 3 joined in the past year from rec or pre school class) .Looking at girls who are on elite track that are my dd's age and there is only 1 in my dd's birth year and 1 born the year before.

We have lots of development groups that are on 4-6 hours a week, mixed age in those groups (around 5-14) and these girls tend to stick around a lot longer. By being in those groups there is time for dance classes etc.

 

[munchkin3]

Coaches MAKE the program.......Going with current coach to a smaller program may be a great thing! The coach will have all kinds of new energy!! Plus, you may find more time for your DD even with less hours...
two questions:
1. how many other girls are moving too?
2. Why is the coach leaving?

 

[COz]

Coaches MAKE the program.......Going with current coach to a smaller program may be a great thing! The coach will have all kinds of new energy!! Plus, you may find more time for your DD even with less hours...
two questions:
1. how many other girls are moving too?
2. Why is the coach leaving?

Thanks. That's what I'm thinking too.

1. No one else. It's a long way away from the current gym and not possible to get to after a normal school day elsewhere. We homeschool so it's something that we can do that the others can't.

2. It's very close to where they live compared to a long commute. Was offered to them, wouldn't have left otherwise.

 

[OzZee]

If you can manage the travel I'd say go with the coach you like if you aren't that set on IDP.
I am guessing the coach is going to a private school. I have to say in my experience they aren't great at putting money into gym programs so unless it's been guaranteed I wouldn't be holding out for the pit. But lots of programs here don't have a pit.
But your dd is very young and will no doubt bond well with other coaches if you stay or move.

Not sure what clubs you are talking about so can't say what I would do for sure.

But if you think your current program is about to implode (as a lot of IDP in NSW has been) it might be best get out whilst it's still ok.

 

[emma m]

I would stay put for now, but if that doesn't work, take option B

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I would take the established successful program over a single coach, unless that coach is on your DD 100 percent of the time. Problem is coaches tend to move around once they uproot. (the grass isn't always greener). In other words, you could find yourself chasing a coach over the next few years which will take it's toll on your DD.

 

[mimi]

I would take the established successful program over a single coach, unless that coach is on your DD 100 percent of the time. Problem is coaches tend to move around once they uproot. (the grass isn't always greener). In other words, you could find yourself chasing a coach over the next few years which will take it's toll on your DD.

I was going to say the same thing. We have finally landed ourselves into a large, professional, established program and it creates a stability for my daughter's training that I could never have imagined. It is a well-oiled machine with lots of coaches which give her lots of different perspectives which she finds very helpful.

 

[refugee]

If the current HC develops strong fundamentals, stay with the coach, esp given your daughter's age. That will pay off for years to come, either in the same program or elsewhere.

As for the big-name program, evaluate the program carefully. Who would her coaches be, what are their track records? Are the good upper-level gymnasts in the program home-grown product or did they acquire fundamentals elsewhere then move to the big-name program for enhanced upper level training?

FWIW, I probably would not stay put if the current gym reverts back to the structure they had before the current HC.

 

[COz]

If the current HC develops strong fundamentals, stay with the coach, esp given your daughter's age.

They certainly do

As for the big-name program, evaluate the program carefully. Who would her coaches be, what are their track records? Are the good upper-level gymnasts in the program home-grown product or did they acquire fundamentals elsewhere then move to the big-name program for enhanced upper level training?

I'm curious about this. I suspect there is less movement where we are, but I could be completely wrong about that.

FWIW, I probably would not stay put if the current gym reverts back to the structure they had before the current HC.

Yep.

 

[COz]

... unless that coach is on your DD 100 percent of the time.

That should be the case.

Problem is coaches tend to move around once they uproot. (the grass isn't always greener). In other words, you could find yourself chasing a coach over the next few years which will take it's toll on your DD.

I think there aren't a lot of HC openings around here, so we should be fine
I do get your point though. Thank you.

 

[Jenny]

I would take the established successful program over a single coach, unless that coach is on your DD 100 percent of the time. Problem is coaches tend to move around once they uproot. (the grass isn't always greener). In other words, you could find yourself chasing a coach over the next few years which will take it's toll on your DD.

I would agree with this but the OP mentioned that the program wasn't established or successful before this coach came. She is not expecting it to stay as is it when the coach goes.

 

[COz]

I would agree with this but the OP mentioned that the program wasn't established or successful before this coach came. She is not expecting it to stay as is it when the coach goes.

Actually the established program I was referring to was a third place.

 

[OzZee]

I'm curious about this. I suspect there is less movement where we are, but I could be completely wrong about tha.

Yes it Is a bit different here and there isn't that much head coach movement.