WAG Giving bad news

[JBS]

Her mom dutifully took her to 2 classes a week of rec, and in the next 8 weeks no coach ever took the group to bars. Meanwhile selection for preteam came and went. This child is no longer in gymnastics.

A child CAPABLE of gymnastics (like my daughter and many children) but not naturally gifted, CANNOT learn the L2 skills in a rec class. They need a 2x a week, 3-4 hour a week preteam group with high expectations.

What???...and what???

1. Not going to bars in 8 weeks is just an example of a poor rec. program.
2. Our program teaches L2 skills (like a bridge kickover and a pullover) to kids everyday with a one or two time per week rec. program.

#1 is my opinion...#2 is a FACT.

 

[Natasha]

What???...and what???

1. Not going to bars in 8 weeks is just an example of a poor rec. program.
2. Our program teaches L2 skills (like a bridge kickover and a pullover) to kids everyday with a one or two time per week rec. program.

#1 is my opinion...#2 is a FACT.

1. Yes. I teach in our rec program and we have a strict rotation schedule. We hit 3 of 5 events each week (trampoline is included), which constantly rotate.
2. I am the substitute teacher for our level 4/5 rec classes. These kids are all working on back walkovers, back handsprings, FH circles, cartwheels on beam, etc. all learned in rec classes. Some are working kip drills and BW on beam. The L4/L5 class does meet 1 1/2 hours and probably about 1/3 come 2x a week, but most of the kids obtained their L1-L3 skills in a once a week rec class.

 

[mommyof1]

What???...and what???

1. Not going to bars in 8 weeks is just an example of a poor rec. program.
2. Our program teaches L2 skills (like a bridge kickover and a pullover) to kids everyday with a one or two time per week rec. program.

#1 is my opinion...#2 is a FACT.

THIS is the real problem--rec programs that are not like yours, and do not teach basic skills. If all rec programs were treated seriously, and motivated kids could be happy and make progress in rec classes, fewer parents would be desperate to get little Susie on preteam at age 5.

 

[CreateMagic]

Definitely true. I've always taught at gyms where the team coaches were also rec coaches... We also have additional rec coaches, but our head coach regularly teaches mommy and me, preschool, and rec classes, as do the rest of us.

 

[mommyof1]

Our program teaches L2 skills (like a bridge kickover and a pullover) to kids everyday with a one or two time per week rec. program.

P.S.: I believe this, as I learned most of the current L4 skills plus a cartwheel on beam as a kid in a once-a-week rec class way back in the day. We also did conditioning in rec, and it didn't seem to hurt enrollment.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

I am a team coach but I am also a pre-team coach and a rec coach. I think every child is important and deserves to be treated respectfully and as an individual, no matter if she is a 12 yo rec gymnast, 6 yo pre-team girl or a super talented 10 yo in optional levels.

Yes, rec classes are supposed to be fun, but they have to be productive too. The kids are there to learn social skills, to learn to love sports and get the benefits gymnastics has when it comes to other sports. I don't know about other places but in here many ice-hockey players, skaters and those who do athletics come to gym once a week because it helps them to become better athletes in other sports. Some soccer/ice-hockey/floorball etc teams actually have weekly gymnastics class!

In my rec classes we practice all the same skills my pre-teamers do, but we don't concentrate on pointed toes and that kind of stuff that much. At the beginning they do some cardio exercise (usually a game), then we do basic stuff like kicks, crab walks, bear walks, rolls, jumps etc on floor. Then they take their own place and depending on week we do either jumps and dance stuff (split jumps, full turns, scales etc) or core strenght exercices fun way. We have contest and I try to use my imagination to make that part nice but effective. After that we do one event. We always set up at least 6 stations (if there is 10 kids) and usually 1 or 2 are for strength. Like box jumps, leg lifts, rope climb etc. We use drills a lot!

Then we do another event.

After that we do a little conditioning. Usually 5-7 stations they rotate.

At the end we play for few minutes together And with 90 minutes class we also do stretching at the end.

I believe my rec classes are good for kids. They are not serious but proper skill progressions are followed and strenght and flexibility is trained at least a little.

I'm so sad to hear about those poor rec programs some of yo have faced. They should be taken more seriously and coaches should get educated to coach rec as well.

 

[JBS]

I'm viewing a trend here...seems to be an issue with some rec. programs...please check out this thread...

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/w...-your-rec-program-progressive-overlooked.html

 

[emorymom]

I am aware that organized rec programs are a possibility but in practice at most gyms I've had contact with they were not designed to give quality gymnastics to all.

And the feedback to rec kids is usually nonexistent. They are there to have fun and fund the gym. End of story. One of my friends' kids was recommended to preteam stream and *she wasn't even told.* As soon as I told her her daughter's class was being groomed for team, she let her quit. Meanwhile the eager excluded are staring through the glass wondering how to get out of rec.

 

[UnoMas]

...And the feedback to rec kids is usually nonexistent. They are there to have fun and fund the gym. End of story. One of my friends' kids was recommended to preteam stream and *she wasn't even told.* As soon as I told her her daughter's class was being groomed for team, she let her quit. Meanwhile the eager excluded are staring through the glass wondering how to get out of rec.

My older DD was in a plain old rec class for over a year at 6 years old...was finally moved up to the advanced class (pre-team track) and after ONE WEEK in advanced was placed on team. We did not ask for her to be placed on preteam or team, it just happened at the gym's suggestion. When we asked how/why she progressed so quickly through advanced/pre-team...they said "eh, someone let her sit in rec way too long". I know she (and I) would very much like to have that year back!

 

[cbifoja]

Our gym gives quarterly feedback to each rec parent. the coaches fill out a skills inventory and writes comments as well as suggestions for progression.

Our owner also requires the rec coaches to talk to x number of parents every week after class. I like they get a lot of feedback.....much more than the previous gym owner ever gave when my kid was a rec kid.

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[lhmom]

DD's coaches also work with rec kids. That's how DD ended up on pre-team in the 1st place. She was in one of her coaches' preschool classes and when I was looking to change her class (from a morning one to afternoon one), she was invited to try out. I had no clue what I was getting into either.

 

[Faith]

Our gym gives quarterly feedback to each rec parent. the coaches fill out a skills inventory and writes comments as well as suggestions for progression.

Our owner also requires the rec coaches to talk to x number of parents every week after class. I like they get a lot of feedback.....much more than the previous gym owner ever gave when my kid was a rec kid.

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This simply isn't possible in our gym. The rec programme is relatively big- it's the club's main income. If you want to chat to a coach or arrange a meeting, you're welcome, but you need to e-mail and arrange a time. Every coach is busy on the floor during class, and classes run back to back.

Rec for us is for kids who for whatever reason are happy doing their hour a week. There are progressions, and the 11+ age group is working BHS and handspring vault. That age group tend not to work bars/beam, as there just isn't time. They progress through their BGA badge scheme.

As with gymnastics in general, I was happy with dd in rec (and am with dd2). They're not working anything exciting, but she has fun, is safe and is learning general body awareness and skills that will benefit other sports should she choose.

I often say to DD that her school friends in rec aren't at the same level as her because the hours she does every week is 3 months of weekly classes for them. So even progressing at the same rate it takes them years to learn something it takes DD a couple of months to perfect. For that reason unless a kid is very talented (in which case they should be on team!) I don't think you can expect rec to be learning all 4 pieces or very advanced skills.

I do know of kids that have become very frustrated with rec- but those tend to be the talented ones whose parents won't let them join team.

 

[okie]

Our club just changed its preteam name to "competitive league". It trains at the team facility, works new level 2/3 skills four hours per week with 8:1 gymnast:coach ratio. Competitions are monthly, in-house. These age 5 and up gymnasts may progress to USAG. This seems fair and reasonable to me.

Even so, hurt feelings, denial, and disappointment are inevitable. Such is life. My poor DD is super athletic, lean, strong, solid as a rock, mature, disciplined, and having great success BUT is 4'1" at age 6.5. She is practically a giant! At some point that may be an issue. For now, she has beautiful lines and is developing an unequalled foundation of strength and flexibily for whatever sport she ultimately pursues! When/If it is time for her to move on to another sport, I hope her coach will gently but unequivically guide her in a new direction.

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[GymBee97]

Ok I'm only a parent but I've seen many gymnasts over the years that were told this very same thing. They left the gym and went to another only to excel at the sport. I think that there are alot of programs out there and every one is different maybe its not that the gymnasts aren't ready for team but they need a different approach to be ready for team.

I'm not saying you are one of these coaches but I've seen coaches that only want the "easy to train" kids you know the ones that "get the skills" in 3 seconds and if they need more time say they just don't cut it. Im one of the moms that just a few years ago my DD had a coach like this. My DD placed at L7 10th in the state AA and between 2nd and 8th in the individual event. We were brought into a meeting after the states by the new coach to be told my dd had no talent in gymnastics what so ever and she was off the team. If we wanted her to go to prepop she could do that. When I asked what she was talking about she just had an outstanding state meet her reply summed up was my daughter takes too long getting her skills!!

She basicly just wanted the easy to coach gymnasts and no gymnast that might take more effort or time.

As a mom I don't care if she is at a level for 10 years. If she is enjoying what she is doing and is trying hard Isn't getting injured etc isn't that more important than the gold?? Rather than saying your kid has no talent for this (basicly she stinks and isn't team material) how about saying our program doesn't seem to be the right fit to help your daughter succeed on team maybe a different program at another gym might be a better fit to get her to advance.

 

[beamer]

GymBee97: Wouldn't it have been great if that coach had said, "Wow. This kid loves gymnastics and is willing to work at it. I am going to get her as far as she can go in this sport!"??

I read a post like Okie's with just a bit of skepticism. Take this scenario, Okie: your kid loves this JO track, is not into other sports and is willing to work like a dog 12-20 hours per week for it.

Are you really going to be so sanguine when some coach or gym owner says at L5, "Sorry, your kid is too tall (or too ADD or too loose or too tight) to excel at gymnastics. Why don't you take her to the pool for a diving tryout."

Then your DD says, "I am willing to work. I don't want to dive. I want to do JO gymnastics."

According to you, you are going to reply, "Nope. That coach says you are not good enough. Let's head over to the pool."

Probably you are not going to say this.

Probably you are going to take her to another gym that has a more inclusive philosophy. This is what scores of parents -- many, many people who post on this site! -- do all the time.

My bleeding heart philosophy is not that everyone should be on team or that everyone should get trophies for participation (Au contraire, it drives me craaaaazy when we go to meets and placements go out to 17. Hand out awards to the top three competitors and move on!). It is that JO gymnastics should be more inclusive -- slow movers, fast movers, big, small, tighter, looser -- for those kids who have a modicum of talent, want it and are willing to work.

It is interesting and heartwarming to see the teams that embrace this inclusiveness. I respect that.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

This is a great debate, and we seem to have a general agreement, however real life gets in the way. Here there is a Christmas shortage of gymnastics coaches. Our gym could put on more sessions, include more girls but does not have the qualified staff to Do this. A big frustration to my dd who wants another session.

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[okie]

GymBee97: Wouldn't it have been great if that coach had said, "Wow. This kid loves gymnastics and is willing to work at it. I am going to get her as far as she can go in this sport!"??

I read a post like Okie's with just a bit of skepticism. Take this scenario, Okie: your kid loves this JO track, is not into other sports and is willing to work like a dog 12-20 hours per week for it.

Are you really going to be so sanguine when some coach or gym owner says at L5, "Sorry, your kid is too tall (or too ADD or too loose or too tight) to excel at gymnastics. Why don't you take her to the pool for a diving tryout."

Then your DD says, "I am willing to work. I don't want to dive. I want to do JO gymnastics."

According to you, you are going to reply, "Nope. That coach says you are not good enough. Let's head over to the pool."

Probably you are not going to say this.

Probably you are going to take her to another gym that has a more inclusive philosophy.

You make a good point - I would not make her change sports. However, I would like the coach to honestly show us the big picture so that my daughter realizes 20 hours a week in the gym will likely not lead her to college a gymnastics scholarship or even level 6. Certainly if she loves the sport, I will not force her out. As a D1 athlete who received a full ride for soccer, I cannot imagine being in a sport that does not suit me or allow me to compete at a high level BUT I am not my daughter and she may enjoy excelling at Level 5 without advancing. That would be just fine with me.

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[teksquad]

My bleeding heart philosophy is not that everyone should be on team or that everyone should get trophies for participation (Au contraire, it drives me craaaaazy when we go to meets and placements go out to 17. Hand out awards to the top three competitors and move on!). It is that JO gymnastics should be more inclusive -- slow movers, fast movers, big, small, tighter, looser -- for those kids who have a modicum of talent, want it and are willing to work.

It is interesting and heartwarming to see the teams that embrace this inclusiveness. I respect that.

I love this. It's exactly how I feel, too.

But, there are different philosophies, and I have to admit that a gym that wants to focus on elite track, for example, is necessary for those gymnasts who are capable of this goal, and want to pursue it in a gym that focuses on their track. It keeps the international/college streams going strong.

It is my wish that *every* gymnast has access to a gym that is appropriate for his/her needs to advance in the sport at their pace.

 

[emorymom]

This is a great debate, and we seem to have a general agreement, however real life gets in the way. Here there is a Christmas shortage of gymnastics coaches. Our gym could put on more sessions, include more girls but does not have the qualified staff to Do this. A big frustration to my dd who wants another session.

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And who would make a better compulsory coach than a girl who did L4 for 3 years straight.

Who would be better to repeatedly spot 10 year olds than someone who's going to be 5'9".

Sigh. You want more coaches, you leave in the kids with the passion. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

 

[emorymom]

Our club just changed its preteam name to "competitive league". It trains at the team facility, works new level 2/3 skills four hours per week with 8:1 gymnast:coach ratio. Competitions are monthly, in-house. These age 5 and up gymnasts may progress to USAG. This seems fair and reasonable to me.

Even so, hurt feelings, denial, and disappointment are inevitable. Such is life. My poor DD is super athletic, lean, strong, solid as a rock, mature, disciplined, and having great success BUT is 4'1" at age 6.5. She is practically a giant! At some point that may be an issue. For now, she has beautiful lines and is developing an unequalled foundation of strength and flexibily for whatever sport she ultimately pursues! When/If it is time for her to move on to another sport, I hope her coach will gently but unequivically guide her in a new direction.

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4'1" at age 6.5 is 86th percentile. Hardly a giant. That's probably what, 5'7" or so adult height.