WAG Humor me while I beat a dead horse...

[GymBeeMom]

There have been lots of threads about how old is too old...but I was thinking about a post that once said "you're as good as you're going to get" by age 12. I am sure this is a generalization but got me thinking...

There is a girl age 11 who is a strong balanced gymnast, level 8 this year. She hopes to test HOPEs in the summer, but, as strong and good as she is, she is training on level without much up training. She tries but is the slow and steady type, scoring well for her level. Can the slow and steady type make it to elite, or is it really the wrong personality type to go that big. She is hesitant on new skills, but is gorgeous when she gets them. I'm rooting for this gymmie and want to see her make elite, but I often think that the wow factor of the younger, faster and more fearless will be the ones that make it to the elite level. Is level 8 at 11 too old to make it to elite? I sure hope not, I want to see this girl make it.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

I also like to root for the older gymmies! (maybe because my DD started late!) I think L8 at 11 is remarkable actually and I hope she can make it if that is what she wants!!

 

[vagymmomma]

I don't think it's fair to say it'll never happen. Realistically, elite is particularly challenging at that age -- especially when they're more the slow and steady type. I'm just now learning L8, but it strikes me that there's a pretty big leap to 9, even bigger leap to 10, and I can't even imagine what is required for elite. Couple this with the age of 12 brings a rise in outside interests, injuries seem more common, and the body changes can reek havoc with skills. I think some of the new changes this year (an allowable Cs for 8s and Ds for 9s) will help the progression to the next level.

Dedication and desire are certainly the critical first ingredient. I'll always be rooting for the 'older' underdog gymnast to make it to elite. Maybe less pounding on the body at a younger age will allow for less injuries later on?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

it depends on the program she is in.

 

[GymBeeMom]

They uptrain as much as they can with her, but skills just come a little slower and steadier rather than whipping them out. I just love to watch her gymnastics, it really is beautiful.

 

[thefellowsmom]

Don't ask me how my random internet meandering led me here but recently I was looking at this page.

http://www.mymeetscores.com/meet.pl?meetid=46292

If you browse through the gymnasts and look at their histories and what level they were at what age you will see a wide variety. Yes there are some who were 9 year old level 8s but there are also those that were 10 year old level 5s and everything in between.

Erin Macadaeg is a great example. If you look at her history she competed level 6 at 10/11 and, granted, hopped through some levels and competed 8 as a 12 but competed what appears to be three years of 10 before testing elite. This year she tested elite as a senior and came in 9th at Classic and 10th at National Championships. That sounds like a pretty good year to me.

Now, she was obviously in the talented category from early on if you look at her scores, but was she targeted to go elite when she was eight? Doesn't look like it to me but I would put money down on a bet to say that uptraining is big part of that program. This I think is key.

I just don't understand programs that only work on level skills. This makes no sense for long term gymnastics development in my very untrained simple parental mind. Maybe I have just drank too much of the "we teach gymnastics not levels" kool aid.

From looking through this data this is just one example. Everyone's gymnastics road is different whether it leads to elite or college or a happy well adjusted high school life outside of gymnastics.

Yes, I think there is a necessary level of personality and physical traits that make it possible to do Div 1 gymnastics and a smaller more niche set of these traits that makes you a good match for the elite world, but in the end it does seem that who wants it the most and is willing to work and sacrifice to get it comes out on top in the end in both outcomes.

And don't forget parent and coach support. Don't think for a minute that that outcome could have happened for Erin if her parents had told her that elite was an unrealistic goal for someone her age and she should focus her effort elsewhere or if her coach had told her she was washed up as a 10 year old level 6.

 

[iwannacoach]

There is a girl age 11 who is a strong balanced gymnast, level 8 this year. She hopes to test HOPEs in the summer, but, as strong and good as she is, she is training on level without much up training. She tries but is the slow and steady type, scoring well for her level. Can the slow and steady type make it to elite, or is it really the wrong personality type to go that big.

It wouldn't surprise me to see her break out of that pattern and do well, but I also wouldn't discount the notion that a slow and steady kid who just works to level can't make it to elite. What sets her apart is the seemingly complete composure and presentation of her skills. That counts for quite a bit, as a quality some kids don't have, and it's debateable whether a child can add that quality, no matter how good the coach.

It really doesn't matter what we say, because the kid will do what she does, but looking at her age and the level's she's got to get through.........

Age 11.................... level 8

Age 12 and 13........ level 9

Age 14 and 15....... level 10

Age 16................... try elite and drop back to L10

Age 17................... try elite and qualify through to championships

It can work like that but I think there are very few kids who would decide it's worth the sacrifice once they get to age 16 and drop back to L10. I don't know Erin's age, but it looks like she may be one of the few girls to take the long road to elite. She'll be interesting to follow if she's got a year or two left before college...... and even then it's not over until she decides it's over.

 

[thefellowsmom]

So this gets me thinking, so many of the top div 1 schools want elites now. Does it make sense for a 16 year old very good 10 to try to test elite and compete a couple meets then drop back just to have that on her resume?

 

[iwannacoach]

No. Just paper the world with the kid's gymnastics resume'. Accomplishments are what they are, and doing well at L 10 is one that's going to get noticed. In my opinion, I'm more inclined to think a happy and achieving L10 will have a lot more left in the tank than an elite who did it, but not well.

 

[Midwestmommy]

Even hearing about an old quote saying that a gymnast is as good as they are going to get at age 12 makes my skin crawl. Truly. Wow, that's four years away from being able to consent legally to anything in the United States. And that is for a good reason. It's four years before you can be trusted to drive a vehicle. Six years before you can be in the military or sign a legally binding contract. At least four years until physical relations between them and an adult (even if its their idea and they "agree") ceases to be a felony punishishable by prison time. Nine years before you can purchase a bottle of wine. 12 YEARS before your brain is fully developed.

That's all. I obviously am not a proponent of lifting age limits so that we can be on a level playing field with nations who may cheat. We as the gymnastics do our best to catch and punish the cheaters, and should continue to do so.

I would guess that 99%+ of U.S. society agrees with me on this one...

 

[Faith]

Even hearing about an old quote saying that a gymnast is as good as they are going to get at age 12 makes my skin crawl. Truly.

I never thought that was literal. I always read it to mean that by 12 you have a serious indication of where they may end up in their chosen sport. By 12 they are 4 years away from competing as a senior, so need to be on track to have the skills by then. Once they get to 16 and puberty, skill acquisition is going to slow down considerably and it's very hard to switch to elite past that point.

For kids like Erin and the gymmie and the O/p, I think it depends on the coach and the coaches foresight. *If* she has the right coach who can plan correctly over the next 4 years, yes she has a chance.

 

[Muddlethru]

They uptrain as much as they can with her, but skills just come a little slower and steadier rather than whipping them out. I just love to watch her gymnastics, it really is beautiful.

I often think that the wow factor of the younger, faster and more fearless will be the ones that make it to the elite level. Is level 8 at 11 too old to make it to elite? I sure hope not, I want to see this girl make it.

I recall watching a documentary on Aly Raisman on her quest for the gold. According to her parents she usually took longer than others to get a skill. She seemed like the 'slow and steady type rather than whipping it out" as you state. However they did say whatever she lacked in talent she made up in hard work. I also saw several of our recent Olympic and World champions documentaries. Jordyn Weiber's coach feels Jordyn's ability to focus at such a young age is what he felt set her apart. I am not a coach. But I think a slow and steady type has as much chance of making elite as the faster and fearless. In fact, I think neither quality is a good indicator of success at the elite level.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

There have been lots of threads about how old is too old...but I was thinking about a post that once said "you're as good as you're going to get" by age 12. I am sure this is a generalization but got me thinking...

Not just a generalization, but a generalization which is flat-out wrong. Like, not just a little wrong, but not even close to reality.

There is a girl age 11 who is a strong balanced gymnast, level 8 this year. She hopes to test HOPEs in the summer, but, as strong and good as she is, she is training on level without much up training. She tries but is the slow and steady type, scoring well for her level. Can the slow and steady type make it to elite, or is it really the wrong personality type to go that big. She is hesitant on new skills, but is gorgeous when she gets them. I'm rooting for this gymmie and want to see her make elite, but I often think that the wow factor of the younger, faster and more fearless will be the ones that make it to the elite level. Is level 8 at 11 too old to make it to elite? I sure hope not, I want to see this girl make it.

I'd say the odds may be a bit lower for her than for most girls, but yes, it's absolutely possible.

 

[iwannacoach]

Do I have to whip out my worn out story of the kid who began serious training no earlier than 13 years of age at a level that would approximate a strong level 8 in present day gymnastics. I'll spare you the boring details, and just tell you how it turned out.

Three years later she competed in her first national championship. She had a podium finish in the all around at the classic a year later and finished within shouting distance of the top tier kids.

Her career includes a close but not quite finish the World Team Trials and representing the USA on more than one occasion. She may have started late, but that didn't seem to matter. My theory is she had so much left in her tank after a mellow existence in her early years, and a ton of pent up desire.

 

[Jen H.]

Not just a generalization, but a generalization which is flat-out wrong. Like, not just a little wrong, but not even close to reality.



I'd say the odds may be a bit lower for her than for most girls, but yes, it's absolutely possible.

Thank you for sharing that! It is beautiful.
I was weeping as I was reading that, thinking that I was a freak for doing so, but then at the end the author writes that they too are weeping as they were writing it. I get it- I totally get it, I rode and showed horses well into my adult life, and can relate so much as to what a delicate dance it all is.

 

[LizzieLac]

I realize my DD will not be going elite and may not even make level 10 before she graduates high school, but so far the real progress she has made has been between ages 12 and 13.

 

[gasrgoose]

Even hearing about an old quote saying that a gymnast is as good as they are going to get at age 12 makes my skin crawl. Truly. Wow, that's four years away from being able to consent legally to anything in the United States. And that is for a good reason. It's four years before you can be trusted to drive a vehicle. Six years before you can be in the military or sign a legally binding contract. At least four years until physical relations between them and an adult (even if its their idea and they "agree") ceases to be a felony punishishable by prison time. Nine years before you can purchase a bottle of wine. 12 YEARS before your brain is fully developed.

That's all. I obviously am not a proponent of lifting age limits so that we can be on a level playing field with nations who may cheat. We as the gymnastics do our best to catch and punish the cheaters, and should continue to do so.

I would guess that 99%+ of U.S. society agrees with me on this one...

Yikes! Not sure how any of those stats relate to gymnastics but it is an impressive list relating to 12 year olds.

 

[ollieblueeyes]

I realize my DD will not be going elite and may not even make level 10 before she graduates high school, but so far the real progress she has made has been between ages 12 and 13.

This is interesting. My DD has aspirations of doing gymnastics on college. Since she had a late start and is now a new LVL 4 and will be 12 in about a month I am skeptical....Maybe she does have a shot. Mind you she see's herself a Gator....maybe we need to shoot for a D2! Her Dad was a D2 scholarship athlete back in the early 90's in a sport he did not start in earnest until high school. Sports sure have changed since then!

 

[B&M's mom]

There is a girl age 11 who is a strong balanced gymnast, level 8 this year. She hopes to test HOPEs in the summer, but, as strong and good as she is, she is training on level without much up training.

The bigger problem for her may be the fact that it doesn't sound like she's being trained for HOPES. There are specific routines and skills that the kids have to compete in that program. (My daughter tested HOPES last year, some , though not all, of the skills were in the L9-10 level) If she's only training L8, it would be extremely difficult for her to be ready for testing. The judging is extremely hard and the girls have to be precise. Hopefully the coaches are working with her.

 

[wallinbl]

Her Dad was a D2 scholarship athlete back in the early 90's in a sport he did not start in earnest until high school. Sports sure have changed since then!

Yes, they sure have. I was offered several D2 scholarships in a sport that wasn't the one I played.