Parents In between levels- where to place?

[Lilou]

Thank you all! Yes, the coach has said, she'll get a confidence boost staying L2 again and probably win all of the meets. But I see it differently since she'll be moved from Jr categories to Sr categories (age-wise) at the few L2 meets they do (most likely). And she has to have training that differentiates among students and uptrains or else she'll lose confidence and interest in the long term.
Thank you all again for your insight. I'll meet with the coach next week and see where we end up. I do think once I talk with the coach to understand their thinking and plan, I'll hopefully be able to be on board or look elsewhere. And hopefully I'll be able to help my DD get her head back in to the L2 game again.

 

[Sasha]

In our gym if you are between levels you pretty much stay at the lower level.

They will have a more successful season at the lower level. Your daughter doesn't get this yet, because she is relatively new to the process.

This has been my daughter every year she has competed. Including the first year she stayed back at 2. And trust me she was not happy about an extra year at 2 until she saw how much stronger and better she got. And how she improved in placements at meets. She is now L6 possibly 7 but likely staying 6 for at least part of the season. She nearly always spends some time on the podium at all meets including states. And there are girls she started with a no are now at higher levels. Not necessarily better gymnasts by routine, but they got their skills quicker. It's the way it goes.

In the interest of full disclosure our gym uptrains.

Your gym maybe uptraining as well, what appears to be not much happening maybe very important drills.

Also as the skills get harder the steps and time to get them take longer.
Gymnastics becomes much more like "work" and like "fun". They have to love the work of gymnastics. And they need to realize things like patience. And it's not what everyone else is doing.

And they need to group kids where they are at. Fair is not everyone getting the same thing, it's everyone getting what they need. By all means have a sit down with the coaches. Decide you trust the process or find a new gym. But your and your daughters focus needs to be on her work and effort after that.

I agree with everything ldw is saying here. Repeating can be great. More focus on basics while gaining maturity and body control can be great. Gymnastics does indeed become more 'work' on all the little details and technique, and 'getting new skills' is indeed a longer, more tedious process that a JO gymnast must love or learn to love. Hard work on little things now will make acquiring bigger skills later much faster and easier. All true.

The key for me, now that I have experienced 2 very different gyms, is how much coaches truly do tailor training to the individual gymnast, particularly those on the more advanced side of the group. The difference for us was vast. Though we loved her coaches as people, and they were caring, I don't think as a group they were skilled at progressing girls as individuals - more focus on team scores in compulsories. That, ultimately, did not turn out to be the right fit for my daughter.

 

[amiandjim]

What Sasha said. The first year of level 2 at our old gym, DD was lucky to occasionally place 5-6 on an event. She had the skills but her form and conditioning were not there. I'm confident that had she stayed there and repeated 2, she might have placed a little better but not much. Our new gym just gets her and she works even harder and loves gym more than ever. And yes, she did pretty much win all the meets (2nd AA once) but at level 2, that really doesn't matter! It's how she is set up for the future levels, her form, etc...So my question for you is if you think the current gym can provide that for your DD.

 

[Lilou]

I think the coaches at L3 and L4 are really amazing, and they can provide great form work for my daughter. They get her... she's not a loud, goofy and outgoing personality so she doesn't capture most coaches attention or become their favorites I'm sure. She's a hard worker though who does what the coach tells her and is like a little robot actually in a weird way- the level 3 coach worked with her once, positioned my DD's body on the beam in a really nice way, and now moving forward DD does it like she positioned her.

I do not believe the current L2 coaches are setting her form up for future levels. That is a problem. It's actually quite obvious to the moms there. But we've had multiple coaches at this level too so no consistency. My daughter already stood on the podium at every meet at L2 (for whatever that means at this level) so she would have to win everything this year to improve from last year, again at L2 what does that really matter, not much imo.

We'll see... will talk about all of this next week.

What Sasha said. The first year of level 2 at our old gym, DD was lucky to occasionally place 5-6 on an event. She had the skills but her form and conditioning were not there. I'm confident that had she stayed there and repeated 2, she might have placed a little better but not much. Our new gym just gets her and she works even harder and loves gym more than ever. And yes, she did pretty much win all the meets (2nd AA once) but at level 2, that really doesn't matter! It's how she is set up for the future levels, her form, etc...So my question for you is if you think the current gym can provide that for your DD.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Puma Jr has been in this position a couple times before. A couple years ago, she was in between L3 and L4 and did L4 and did not have a good season at all. She never medaled, felt bad about herself, the coaches were getting frustrated with her because she was shutting down...it was the beginning of the downward spiral that ended her JO carreer. A few months ago we changed to USAIGC and she was inbetween Bronze and Silver. She did Bronze. It was the right call. She scored and placed fairly well, felt good about herself and is so much more motivated to learn and improve now that she's tasted success. She was State champ on bars and just placed 3rd of 44 on bars at Worlds. It's just our experience, but I say competing what you're super solid at and uptraining the rest in practice is the way to go. Maybe like someone else above said they work would with you and have her practice one day with the higher group? Or add a dance class or something to help supplement? Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

so she would have to win everything this year to improve from last year,

Winning is a very small piece of gymnastics and not a good way to measure improvement.

Yes there are exceptional kids who never stop winning. But for most, I can assure you those wins become less frequent.

Improvement and goals become much more individual and they are worked every day. More press handstands than last week. Get my connection more consistently this week then last week. Get my leap from 150 to 180.........................

Or get my skill back. And having to go backwards in order to move forward. Get past an injury.

You also need to come at this from not from how are they going to get your daughter to the next thing. But what does your daughter have to do to get to the next thing? What is she not doing that she should be doing? Are there drills and conditioning that she thinks is a drag and boring.......... therefore she is not putting her effort there..... because she doesn't see the bigger picture and long term payoff. These are things to know.

Its not only what are the coaches doing but what is she doing or not doing. You have to be open to the possibilities on both sides.

My daughter is a turtle. Her coaches can want her and are willing for her to do whatever skill. But she has to do it............. I know with my kid its not always the coach not letting her but her not ready to do it.

 

[GYM0M]

...what do you do with a kid who's in between levels but clearly frustrated she is in with girls who are so far behind her....

Request to move up to L3, but for training purposes only and have her sit out a year of competition.

Didn't read all the posts so sorry if this has already been said....[emoji39]

 

[Aussie_coach]

Repeating can benefit a gymnast, but there is not a great deal of value in repeating level 2. Level 2 is very much a participating level, the skills are not that progressive, and I am inclined to feel that another year at level 2 is wasting a year of her gymnastics progress.

That being said I have not seen your daughter, there could be any number of reasons for the repeat. Sometimes it isn't skill related it can be attendance, commitment, attitude, effort etc. They may have certain strength and flexibility requirements to move up ie flat in splits or able to do 10 leg lifts to touch the top. Each gym will do what is best for them.

But I would chat to the head coach, if it is strength and flexibility perhaps she can do extra classes over the summer or extra work at home, perhaps a few private lessons can address the concerns.

 

[Lilou]

I'm sorry but I don't care about her winning and I totally agree not a good way to measure improvement. I think you missed the point of that post. It was when the coaches said that she'd win. But I disagree.

I also agree that she needs to do work to get to L3 so it's not how I'm going to get her there except to say what does she have to do to get there. Those are the exact words I asked the coach casually when I asked what does she need to do to get to level 3. The coach said, she needs to be stronger and more flexible. That was it. So, I agree with you... sorry if my post led you to think otherwise.

Winning is a very small piece of gymnastics and not a good way to measure improvement.

Yes there are exceptional kids who never stop winning. But for most, I can assure you those wins become less frequent.

Improvement and goals become much more individual and they are worked every day. More press handstands than last week. Get my connection more consistently this week then last week. Get my leap from 150 to 180.........................

Or get my skill back. And having to go backwards in order to move forward. Get past an injury.

You also need to come at this from not from how are they going to get your daughter to the next thing. But what does your daughter have to do to get to the next thing? What is she not doing that she should be doing? Are there drills and conditioning that she thinks is a drag and boring.......... therefore she is not putting her effort there..... because she doesn't see the bigger picture and long term payoff. These are things to know.

Its not only what are the coaches doing but what is she doing or not doing. You have to be open to the possibilities on both sides.

My daughter is a turtle. Her coaches can want her and are willing for her to do whatever skill. But she has to do it............. I know with my kid its not always the coach not letting her but her not ready to do it.

 

[Lilou]

This is kind of what I think too. Level 2 is the baby level and I feel like repeating 3 would be appropriate given where she is, but 2, with the twos we have in the class, is just not the right fit. Again, another more advanced Level 2 could work, but the twos are our gym are not good.
I'll talk with the coach next week and see what she needs to continue to do to get there.

At one point the coach said for her to work on press handstands... after I told her what the coach said, she took it upon herself to do at least 30 every day (she couldn't do them when she started but by mid-week with her determination she was doing them (not a ton in a row or anything)). I actually told her to stop so she doesn't get too sore.

Thanks for your input!

Repeating can benefit a gymnast, but there is not a great deal of value in repeating level 2. Level 2 is very much a participating level, the skills are not that progressive, and I am inclined to feel that another year at level 2 is wasting a year of her gymnastics progress.

That being said I have not seen your daughter, there could be any number of reasons for the repeat. Sometimes it isn't skill related it can be attendance, commitment, attitude, effort etc. They may have certain strength and flexibility requirements to move up ie flat in splits or able to do 10 leg lifts to touch the top. Each gym will do what is best for them.

But I would chat to the head coach, if it is strength and flexibility perhaps she can do extra classes over the summer or extra work at home, perhaps a few private lessons can address the concerns.

 

[Lilou]

Request to move up to L3, but for training purposes only and have her sit out a year of competition.

Didn't read all the posts so sorry if this has already been said....[emoji39]

This seems to be an appropriate idea too... Thank you!

 

[LJL07]

I've gotta agree that repeating level 2 is silly. The skills are pretty similar, and I think she can clean up form on level 3 too. I like @GYM0M 's advice.

 

[Bess]

Until you can figure it out/talk with the coaches I would just encourage your daughter to think the word "extra" at practice. Working back hip circles? Go extra to get that perfect hollow form and concentrate on that cast (higher/tighter/whatever) Floor/beam go extra and make sure every movement is finished all the way to the tip of her toes and fingers. Work those leaps,go extra and make them bigger.

There are lots of ways to get the most out of a year repeating a level. Maybe not super exciting with new skills but certainly ways to go bigger on the existing ones

 

[Lilou]

Yes, good point! I'm encouraging her this way now. Thank you. I definitely see this side of it too where she can perfect her form with these easier moves and really get her leaps higher, toes pointed every.single.time... this kind of work. But I also know that's something that will most likely not keep her interested in the long term (say in the 9 month season) if she doesn't uptrain with new skills too. So that's kind of where my thoughts are... she needs something more to keep her interested in the long term this upcoming year. I also think whoever earlier mentioned having the class differentiate with the students to meet them where they are would be helpful since currently they're not doing that with any of the kids (not just mine).

Until you can figure it out/talk with the coaches I would just encourage your daughter to think the word "extra" at practice. Working back hip circles? Go extra to get that perfect hollow form and concentrate on that cast (higher/tighter/whatever) Floor/beam go extra and make sure every movement is finished all the way to the tip of her toes and fingers. Work those leaps,go extra and make them bigger.

There are lots of ways to get the most out of a year repeating a level. Maybe not super exciting with new skills but certainly ways to go bigger on the existing ones

 

[txgymfan]

When are you talking to the coach?

 

[Lilou]

UPDATE: I spoke with the coach and at our gym L3 and L4 are very competitive from what I found out. So, they've said my daughter needs to stay in L2 for the summer and increase her flexibility more (her strength has improved and she's doing one press handstand at a time). So she offered some stretches for her and said at the end of the summer she may be ready to join L3. I really like the L3 coaches and wish my daughter had them all of the time because of their expertise and knowledge.
We had high schoolers that coached L2 last year. So, at least I understand that my daughter needs to break some bad habits she's starting to develop from the lack of great coaching at L2 and increase her flexibility. There is another new L2 coach this summer so hopefully he will be good. But I highly doubt she'll join L3 at the end of the summer because all of those girls have made leaps and bounds of progress even after 3 weeks, so why when they're all great at L3 would they take my new L3 to start from the beginning? Seems unlikely but I'm still learning this sport. So, at this point, it's either move gyms to a better and more appropriate L2 group (or L3), or stay and hope the new L2 coach actually differentiates with the girls and is good at really developing them.

 

[Sasha]

So she offered some stretches for her and said at the end of the summer she may be ready to join L3.

First, it is good the coach talked with you in more detail, and offered some home stretching guidance. Positive points. And as you have already agreed, repeating L2 is not necessarily bad if her training does actually keep her progressing in both technique and skills, and sets her up for a successful season of L2 as well as a jump start on L3 for next year.

The "may be ready to join L3" at the end of summer suggestion is still weak and vague to me, though. Did the coach offer any specifics on how she would be evaluated and when? And what exactly she would need to demonstrate to move into L3? Summer only has a few weeks left. The current L3s should already be perfecting routines. Usually the end of summer is already the first competitions (unless your season is different - I didn't go re-read in case you mentioned that....). So is the coach saying she would start off competing L2 and then switch to competing L3 mid season? I have seen too many 'false hope' suggestions made by coaches to momentarily placate families into thinking there is a chance, but failing to specify actual testable goals and criteria and failing to follow up on these 'suggestions' when the time comes, while the athlete and family thought all along they were working toward an actually realistic goal. That seldom ends well.

You are correct that unless the new L2 coach takes a different approach, the gap between the L3 girls and your daughter will only widen. Again, we have been there. And again, my DD did surpass those girls eventually, as may your DD, but I still regret the mostly wasted year as this was age 8-9 for my daughter, a prime age to be working toward higher skills, rather than spending 9 months perfecting L3 routines that were already scoring solid 9's. Point of reference - she started L3 season in low/mid 36s and ended at mid-high 37s in a state where 36-low 37 wins everything. Compare to her group that started off way back skill and form-wise, largely starting off season at 31-34, some scratching events, ending at 35-37, you can see where the focus was and why they made way more progress while my DD just maintained. A few tenths are nice, sure, but over 9 months that was all she had to show for it - a few tenths and no new skills for a talented athlete at a prime age.

So proceed with caution. Maybe the new L2 coach is awesome, her flexibility and form improve, and you survive another year of L2 and get the great L3 coach next year, and all is happy. If that sits well with you, then help your daughter feel good about it, relax, and enjoy her young super-adorableness at meets. But I would still try to get more detail on the possible move up from the coach if you have not already done so to avoid a 'false hope' situation. Pardon my skepticism - I have just seen it sooooooo much.

 

[Lilou]

Thank you for your feedback. I'm really skeptical too about the "may be ready to join L3" in Sept too... mainly because those who moved up are doing so great already, know the routines, etc... and then why would they take my DD whow ould be starting from scratch. Also, at our gym, they pick the level at the end of August and that's it for the year. No half l2 and half l3. Frankly, it's tough to have a long conversation with the coaches because their English is not very good. There were no measurable goals, except they did mention having all splits and better shoulder flexibility so those are what she'll work on. Better hand position when her hands hit the floor for her back handspring too they mentioned. Apparently that's the "bad habit" she's developing with hands slightly turned out. Those were it.
I think I need to talk with the new L2 coach and understand how he'll be working with this group. I see we've already wasted the first half of the summer, truly we have and there's nothing to show for it... so frustrating especially when you see the progress the new L3 made from her original group. I really don't want to waste the second half or a full season!

First, it is good the coach talked with you in more detail, and offered some home stretching guidance. Positive points. And as you have already agreed, repeating L2 is not necessarily bad if her training does actually keep her progressing in both technique and skills, and sets her up for a successful season of L2 as well as a jump start on L3 for next year.

The "may be ready to join L3" at the end of summer suggestion is still weak and vague to me, though. Did the coach offer any specifics on how she would be evaluated and when? And what exactly she would need to demonstrate to move into L3? Summer only has a few weeks left. The current L3s should already be perfecting routines. Usually the end of summer is already the first competitions (unless your season is different - I didn't go re-read in case you mentioned that....). So is the coach saying she would start off competing L2 and then switch to competing L3 mid season? I have seen too many 'false hope' suggestions made by coaches to momentarily placate families into thinking there is a chance, but failing to specify actual testable goals and criteria and failing to follow up on these 'suggestions' when the time comes, while the athlete and family thought all along they were working toward an actually realistic goal. That seldom ends well.

You are correct that unless the new L2 coach takes a different approach, the gap between the L3 girls and your daughter will only widen. Again, we have been there. And again, my DD did surpass those girls eventually, as may your DD, but I still regret the mostly wasted year as this was age 8-9 for my daughter, a prime age to be working toward higher skills, rather than spending 9 months perfecting L3 routines that were already scoring solid 9's. Point of reference - she started L3 season in low/mid 36s and ended at mid-high 37s in a state where 36-low 37 wins everything. Compare to her group that started off way back skill and form-wise, largely starting off season at 31-34, some scratching events, ending at 35-37, you can see where the focus was and why they made way more progress while my DD just maintained. A few tenths are nice, sure, but over 9 months that was all she had to show for it - a few tenths and no new skills for a talented athlete at a prime age.

So proceed with caution. Maybe the new L2 coach is awesome, her flexibility and form improve, and you survive another year of L2 and get the great L3 coach next year, and all is happy. If that sits well with you, then help your daughter feel good about it, relax, and enjoy her young super-adorableness at meets. But I would still try to get more detail on the possible move up from the coach if you have not already done so to avoid a 'false hope' situation. Pardon my skepticism - I have just seen it sooooooo much.

 

[l.c.o]

My DD has been in this place a couple of times. Each time she has been held back... one year she technically could do all of the next level's routines but still repeated (granted the routines were not very pretty). While a bit frustrating, it was what it was. It resulted in a good amount of medals and probably resulted in some degree of confidence boost for my DD.

That said, there have been times I've wondered *what if* - where would she be now had she not repeated? It's possible she'd be further ahead, but also possible she wouldn't be, as she had more time to work on those basics.

I wouldn't compare your DD to other gymnasts. Coaches often have a reason for why they do what they do. If it's bugging you, then maybe have a chat. Like others have said, it comes down to trust.

Edit: I'm always skeptical when coaches dangle a move up... I do think that they often say it to appease parents. And I also think they usually have a general 'plan' for a lot of gymnasts. Not to say it can't be changed, but I think oftentimes it isn't.

 

[Lilou]

UPDATE: My daughter was evaluated at another gym, a highly competitive one, and they recommended that she be placed in their Level 3 team. This just shows me that a gym that produces Elite gymnasts and consistently wins at meets accepted my daughter on their Level 3 team and our current middle of the road, but very friendly and not high stress gym, is making her repeat Level 2. My daughter said the competitive gym class she tried was boring
(i think she means tiring though) and one girl wasn't nice to her, so she'd rather stay at the current gym but she still is hoping she can do L3. I told her it's most likely either L2 at the current gym or L3 at the new gym. She said she doesn't want to leave her friends and she'll do L2 again. Mind you, she's 7... so how do you balance letting your child make the decision versus what you think is the right decision for her? She complains that she's bored and distracted and not having fun at the current gym because of the L2 class. Some days it's a fight to get her there because she wants to do L3 skills. So maybe she would just need to adjust to a new class and gym at L3 and then be ok... or not and giving her an easy year so she can stay with friends is ok. I'm a bit worried the new gym could be too intense for her too, but you don't really know until you get rolling in it I think. I'm a bit torn but favoring taking her to the new gym. What would you do?